Im back. got a new project '81 37'.

[luvitt]

well i got another "deal". a really good deal. I'm getting kinda good at finding deals. And thanks to the sale of my last deal, I had the cash to make this deal happen!

So i picked up a 1981 37' hunter. I thought it was a Cherubini, but the seller just emailed me a brochure that says its a Legend. So im unsure about that. i put the question in another thread already....

But i need some advice on handling the deal and cash. The seller is a 77 year old lady, and i have been dealing mainly with her daughter who lives out of town. I don't think the daughter fully understands everything i am talking about. I asked her if the boat was documented or titled and she says it is documented. However, she says the title is at the bank. So she has been up front about what is going on with the boat and she says that her mother owes an amount on the boat to the bank. And that she has the difference between what i am paying and what she owes, in cash (she is taking a loss). She says she has a "provisional" title that she will give me tomorrow when i hand over the cashiers check. (now its starting to sound like a scam!) Then she will take my $$ and her $$ to the bank and pay off the loan. Then the bank will mail me the new title. But how do i protect myself? what if she never pays off the loan? should i demand to go to the bank with her? Thats gonna be kind of difficult to do with an old lady? What document or instrument should I get to protect myself in this event? im sure i would have to sue if that were to happen. but how do i notate this arrangement? notate it on the bill of sale?

also, I have a feeling the boat is not documented. how can i find out? I plan on taking all of the coast guard required forms in any event. Can anyone recommend what other forms i may need to conclude this sale efficiently? I'm thinking it is really just gonna be a state titled boat. i dont want to track this woman down repeatedly like i had to do with seller of my H40? I know she is not gonna bring anything but a "provisional" title. and should i plan on running to a notary for the bill of sale (yes for the cg form). The daughter already warned me that she was 77 years young, and be sure i treat her like i would my mother. So i fear this is gonna be a little difficult.

Any suggestions are appreciated. I am in SC state.

I will be back soon with pics and lots of questions!!! will the HIN help me decipher anything?

thanks,

brobins75

 

[Steve Dion]

There were no Legends built in '81. These were all Cherubini's.

The Hunter 37 built during this era was also a cutter rig.

You may want to check what you really bought!

 

[luvitt]

well the HIN verifies that it is a 1981. the interior looks just like the other Cherubinis i see on the site.

HIN= HUN37235M81H

its in pretty decent shape. It needs painting. the hull has fresh bottom paint below the water line, and above, it is primed and ready to paint.

The interior brightwork has been completely revarnished from the sole to the bulkheads.

Its just pretty dirty, cushions need replacing, ice box full of scum, dead batteries, etc. Aside from the paint job, its mainly a cleanup.

I hate to say what i paid!!! Would $20k be reasonable for this boat? how about $15k? $10k? $5k? ........ i see them in good shape for $40-50k on yacht trader.

b

 

[Merlin Clark]

Have you met the 77 yo lady in person? Sure that she exists? Any explaination as to why/how their is a bank loan on this old a boat and by elderly people? The senior citizens I'm related to or otherwise know are not inclined to take out loans on things they don't absolutely have to, being MUCH wiser than we younger people.

Were it me, I'd insist on going to the bank and being part of the transaction. If you can't do this, an escrow agent might be what you need.
I wonder if banks provide such a service for individuals?
I spent half a year in Nigeria and a common scam there is to try and sell or lease someone elses real estate! That experience just made me much more suspicious of my fellow man/woman!

 

[drumbeater]

I'd go to the bank. I've done that with car deals plenty of times and it should be considered customary. That or run the deal through a broker.

 

[luvitt]

ok, a little more to the story. I spoke to the lady herself. so i think she exists.

but the daughter had explained to me that the Mother bought it for her deadbeat son, he lived on it for a 5 years, the marina changed hands and he couldnt afford the slip and abandoned the boat. The mother had the lien for him. she owes more than i am paying her. She says she is just cutting her losses b/c she is racking up storage, which is not delinquent -- i checked.

The problem is that the bank is in Cincinnati, and we cant drive there. She says im just gonna have to trust her (dont know her from adam). but if she doesnt satisfy the lien, i could be out another $3k, that will still be on the lien. She says she has the cash ready to make the deal.

perhaps i could word the bill of sale or some other instrument in a way that states this is just a deposit in full until the lien is satisfied? then i could demand the money back if lien not satisfied in 14 days or such?

and what about those "i owe you" forms that car dealers use. She owes me a couple parts that are at her house, perhaps she could owe me a lien release?

What would a broker do? i've never used one.

thanks,

b

 

[H33CRich]

Cincinnati has a great airport. Fly. Or take a 12 hour drive. Either way, if it is a good deal the trip costs should be offset. There are lots of "deals" out there. In fact there is a 37C in Chesapeake City Maryland that you could probably get for around 20.

 

[Bubblehead]

As for the documentation, if it is titled it will have state stickers on the side like a fishing boat. If those are absent you have a coast guard boat.

You say the Lien is only around 3k, and you hint at a steal of a price, so your worst case is a boat you paid 3k more for, assuming that is all that's owed. What I would do is contact the bank directly, and see about paying them directly. You can cut her out completely, wire the money, along with instructions, to the bank. They will not mismanage your funds or break your wishes, and they definitely don't want to be sued over a old sailboat.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Pretty good thinking and advice from a "Bubblehead". How did you come up with that handle?

 

[Steve Dion]

If you cannot transfer the money directly to the bank, then you can have a cashiers check made out to the seller and the bank.

 

[Seattle Scott]

Brobins, I am a lawyer. You need to deal directly with the bank or hire an escrow agent ( who will act as the middle man, collecting the funds and title and sending the money to the banka nd the title to you). I will guess you are paying $10K for the boat, anyway no reason to add a few hundred more for escrow service. Get the seller to authorize the bank to communicate to you, find out balance on loan and confirm bank has the title. If the boat is documented then there will be a mortgage recorded/filed with the Coast guard and the bank would give you some sort of satisfaction of mortgage/release to file with Coast Guard. Anyway, find out from the bank what form of security interest it has and do a deal directly with the bank. something along the lines of you will send the bank the purchase funds, say $10K, and the bank will send you the title/lien release once the balance of the loan has been paid off, say $3K, and if the bank doesn't get the $3K within X days the bank will send you back your $10K. It is basicaly a letter deal that you and seller siign and send to the bank and the bank send you back a writing saying that it is agreeable to do what you and the seller propose. Anyway, the bank is the gatekeeper so just follow its lead.

 

[Bubblehead]

Pretty good thinking and advice from a "Bubblehead". How did you come up with that handle?

I was a sinker on 688 subs before switching to sail power.

 

[luvitt]

well, done deal. worst case, i owe $3k more. boat needs a little work, but i stole her for $4k. i can sell the lead keel for $2k. not to mention the mast, boom, tackle, etc. screw it. i took a gamble. i'm leaving for a 2 week vacation tomorrow and i just didnt have enough time to do anything else. I wanted to seal the deal before she changed her mind and sold it to someone else for $10k+. Once i clean her up, i can get $20 for her all day long. They even gave me the brand new gallon of awlgrip to paint her. she's already sanded and primed, all i gotta do is tape her off and get the guys to spray two coats.

She seemed pretty honest. i got every kind of bill of sale -state and CG, i could think of. i got a security agreement w me as lien holder (not sure if it will count since bank is already the lien holder, 2nd lien?). I got a lien release form with her sign & notarized to send to the bank, and a CG mortgage release form.

it is definately registered with the state b/c i called them and they looked it up. it doesnt have state numbers b/c it is prepped to paint.

crossing my fingers.

b

 

[luvitt]

i hope that didnt sound bad... im not trying to rip off an old lady. I'm just buying low to sell higher. capitalism! the last person that offered her $10k wanted her to get the boat water ready for that price. i bought as-is. and she turned down the 10k for my 4k. so she wasnt getting ripped by me!