I’ll trade ya my Irwin for your Pearson, the state of the boat biz

[Tiffany]

Sailing cargo ships are making a genuine comeback. Japanese bulk carrier MOL is operating a wind-assisted ship. American food giant Cargill is working with Olympic sailor Ben Ainslie to deploy WindWings on its routes. Swedish shipping company Wallenius is aiming for Oceanbird to cut emissions by up to 90%

How do you feel about the state of the recreational Sailboat market? Do you think it's gaining in popularity or declining?

 

[Simple Life]

Sailing cargo ships are making a genuine comeback. Japanese bulk carrier MOL is operating a wind-assisted ship. American food giant Cargill is working with Olympic sailor Ben Ainslie to deploy WindWings on its routes. Swedish shipping company Wallenius is aiming for Oceanbird to cut emissions by up to 90%

How do you feel about the state of the recreational Sailboat market? Do you think it's gaining in popularity or declining?

It seems finding a Hunter Passage 450 or 420 is like pulling teeth! The few available have been sitting forever with major issues. We want to buy a good one & it proves to be tough. Expanded our search to other center cockpit boats and choices are slim. Need headroom in master. This tells us the recreational sailboat market is doing well and sales listing's move quickly. However brokers tell me people are holding their boats after failing to sell and wait to resist later. Don't know the real situation except that wes can't find what we want to buy! Sadler James 954-336-7936.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

From a pure financial standpoint I think it primarily boils down to crew costs vs fuel costs. Is it cheaper to pay and feed a crew for twice as long traveling at 6kts or pay for fuel to go 12-20kts? I think we may see these vessels motor sailing by means of solar in the future.

We saw the sale of covid purchased boats over the past two years which would make one think that the market declined a bit. However, the good C30's are selling fast!

 

[dLj]

How do you feel about the state of the recreational Sailboat market? Do you think it's gaining in popularity or declining?

I think it is harder for young people to get into the recreational market. Costs for owning and maintaining recreational sailboats are increasing more and more. Speaking with young people about getting into sailing, the responses become more about how it is too expensive to buy and maintain boats.

I reflect back on how I got into sailing, the cost to buy was notably lower, even looking at dollars then compared to dollars now. My first boat cost me $20. Other than paint, varnish, wood and fasteners to rebuild or maintain my early boats, there were no other costs to sail and use those boats. My first ocean capable boat had minimal costs to keep, I made my own mooring and it cost nothing to any entity to put it on my mooring. I only had to maintain the boat as I wished.

The costs of keeping a boat are substantially higher now. There are few places where you can drop a mooring without having permission, and that is typically associated with some kind of yearly cost. My first boats cost me almost nothing to keep and use. Maintenance costs were much lower - launching and using them had no fees. Today it is increasingly more difficult to find low or no cost options to use a boat.

Most of the young people i speak to today say to me that they do not want to have the expenses involved with owning a sail boat. They would rather rent or become involved in a club that shoulders the costs of boat ownership. I just don't see how that bodes well for a strong recreational sailing market.

Just my two cents worth.

dj

 

[Timm R Oday25]

A quick scan of the empty slips and winter mooring sticks still in place tell me otherwise. Both marinas in Milwaukee have at least half of the slips available . Problems arise as there are fewer people owning boats , the marinas need a certain minimum to pay their bills. So what to do ?
Raise the rates on those who are still renting...I think the bigger obstacle is the amount of time sailing takes..

 

[kappykaplan]

I think the bigger obstacle is the amount of time sailing takes..

It's the journey, not the destination. I enjoy all my time on the water, but you make a good point.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Housing & grocery prices have risen so drastically that young people are having a hard time being able to afford basic living these days. Mass production boats have all but disappeared. Boomers, such as myself, who have the wealth to buy and maintain boats, will very soon be aged-out of this activity. Insurance agencies are becoming more resistant to carrying the glut of older boats that are and will be on the market. The country needs an economic boom to brighten this picture. Don't count sailing out just yet. I think the interest in sailing may peak again. The young folks are into it, I can tell ... they just can't do it with a bleak economic environment.

 

[KCofKC]

Where I live in the Midwest, the sailboat only marina is full, small to no wait for a slip. Sailing classes are full for the season. Powerboat slips have a two year minimum waiting list. So it would seem that they easy boat experience is preferred but that there is also a lot of interest in sailing still. Powerboats are easier to pull and travel with. I have one of each, my sailboat and my travel boat.

 

[jssailem]

Going to boat shows in the Pacific NW, you see 10 to 1 Power boats over sailboats being marketed. Not just runabouts. Big boats with two or more $70K each, 300-400hp outboards on the stern. Move your view to the Marinas (which all have some waiting list to get a slip), and there is a more even balance, maybe a 60/40 split. Many small sailboats from 36 feet down to the 20s have slips. They are there in the water. Available to the owners. Just not a lot are taken out onto the water with any frequency.

Walking the dock yesterday, I noticed an increase in boats with for sale signs. I saw a 36 Pearson in good condition listed at $28K for sale by owner. I know the owner is one of those boomers @Scott T-Bird mentioned who is being aged out of this recreation experience.

There will be varying interest in sailing over the years. There are so many options to occupy our time. I am encouraged that sailing will not disappear as long as we keep sharing the experience with children. Moving a boat through the water under sail power is one of those activities that can grab the soul of a person and never lets go.

 

[kappykaplan]

Moving a boat through the water under sail power is one of those activities that can grab the soul of a person and never lets go.

 

[Indysailor]

I think people are just as much into being on the water as ever, maybe even moreso. But they are choosing to muck around on paddle boards and kayaks a lot more than they did when I first started sailing, or they are choosing to go motorized. Also, what I've observed at my club is that where young people and their kids once started sailing on a Highlander or something of similar size before moving up to pocket cruisers, they are now just opting to start with that bigger boat. That translates into a higher entry cost, unless one is handy enough to manage refurbishing an older boat. It looks to me like the sailboat industry doesn't have anything that fits the description of a starter boat.

 

[shemandr]

It is an enigma to me that sailboats and sailboating are depicted in numerous commercial ads as the very symbol of the good life and yet participation in sailing is waning. I can only guess that the public only seeks the good life if someone else pays the tab and does the work. This in a culture that glorifies outdoors and outdoor activities that require physical fitness and a willingness to endure physical discomfort. Cycling, running, hiking, paddle sports and other activities are at least as much of an effort as sailing.
And then there's the green aspect. With all the hype about going green and climate activism you would think the use of power boats would be declining and sailing on the upswing. After all people spend tens of thousands of dollars more than they need to, to drive a Tesla. For many the it's the feeling green that motivates them. Why does that not carry over to water activity?
Could it be that as a culture we are full of s**t? Speed trumps green!

 

[LloydB]

PWC or YouTube can get you to the place the old guys hang out with a lot less time and money invested. If that doesn't make sense to you then you might take another look at the popularity between wood and fiberglass sailboats 40 years ago compared to now. Or go to a wooden boat show and see who's hanging out. (Without checking YouTube that is)

 

[pgandw]

I think people are just as much into being on the water as ever, maybe even moreso. But they are choosing to muck around on paddle boards and kayaks a lot more than they did when I first started sailing, or they are choosing to go motorized. Also, what I've observed at my club is that where young people and their kids once started sailing on a Highlander or something of similar size before moving up to pocket cruisers, they are now just opting to start with that bigger boat. That translates into a higher entry cost, unless one is handy enough to manage refurbishing an older boat. It looks to me like the sailboat industry doesn't have anything that fits the description of a starter boat.

The problem with refurbishing an old boat is the reverse economics. Refurbishment cost plus initial cost far exceeds value at end of refurbishment. And this does not account for one's labor. And buying new is even more absurd due to the incredible depreciation in the trailerable class boats.

An example: Mariner (ODay 19ft trailerable overnight sailboat) in decent, usable but not real good condition goes for around $3K. Throw in a very good trailer and/or electric outboard and it might fetch $5K. New costs $50K. New trailer costs $4K. New electric outboard costs $2.7+K. New set of sails - at least $1.5K. Boom, mast, standing rigging, rudder all available new, and all more than $600 each. I may not have exact prices correct, but you get the idea. Refurbishment costs are not recoverable because there are too many refurbishment candidates sitting in somebody's back yard.

The same dismal economics apply to trailerable sailboats pretty much across the board. There are virtually none being built new, except for racing classes such as the Flying Scot and Rhodes 19.

Fred W

 

[Tiffany]

Really enjoyed reading all the thoughtful/enlightening comments posted to the question about the state of the boat biz. Thanks for taking to the time to share your thoughts.