Idle and throttle control help

[716thomashall]

I am new to the sailboat world and just bought a 1980 Catalina 30 with a 5411 Universal. The guy I bought it from said the throttle was a little tricky. He was right. I have two problems.

1) In neutral, I am able to rev the engine from idle to high RPM with no hesitation or issue. When I shift into forward, I have to quickly throttle up or it will die. In reverse, I need to quickly go to full throttle just to keep it running. Then even at full throttle in forward or reverse, I am only able to hold half the full rpm’s I am able to achieve in neutral. No tach so I don’t have real rpm data. At full throttle in calm water, I can only hit about 4 knots. As you can imagine, the dying while shifting in and out of gear is annoying and stressful trying to dock in a marina. I will change all the fuel filters and check for cracked fuel lines but since it runs smooth and never stumbles, I am thinking fuel is ok. If I had to guess, I think the governor is not functioning since the rpm’s don’t recover on their own after shifting and I have to manually adjust the throttle to keep it alive. Does that make sense? How can I test this thought and what should I look for?

2) This boat has an Edson pedestal and no engine stop lever. To shut down the engine, I push the throttle closed and it shuts down. Since I am constantly fiddling with the throttle while trying to keep it alive and having to restart it when it quits, I have found it annoying to find the idle position. There is no detent? No idle position at all? Is it just missing? Or broken? I don’t feel any difference in the throttle action all the way from stop to full throttle. Every time I start it, I just crank and increase throttle manually until it is roughly idle “position” and it starts. Is that normal?

 

[kappykaplan]

Then even at full throttle in forward or reverse, I am only able to hold half the full rpm’s I am able to achieve in neutral.

Are the prop and shaft clean, i.e., no marine growth? Welcome to the forum!

 

[kappykaplan]

Another thought . . . What does your exhaust look like in gear and out of gear? You may have a mixing elbow problem.

 

[716thomashall]

Thanks! Yes everything is clean as it just came out of winterization. It’s about as fresh as it can get. As for the exhaust, I am not sure how much is supposed to come out but there is some water coming out, and it doesn’t seem to make a difference between in and out of gear. Not a lot like I have seen on other boats. After a 1.5 hour motor to my slip, the temp never got above 130f. I asked the guys that put it in and got it running and they said these 5411’s don’t spit out as much as other engines. No idea if that’s true or not.

 

[kappykaplan]

It shouldn't be running that cold. Is the smoke black when in gear? Any oil sheen on the water?

 

[716thomashall]

No black smoke. I didn’t see any oil slick but I will look. I don’t see any noticeable soot around the port or back of the boat other than what I would expect inside the port.

 

[dlochner]

In neutral, I am able to rev the engine from idle to high RPM with no hesitation or issue. When I shift into forward, I have to quickly throttle up or it will die. In reverse, I need to quickly go to full throttle just to keep it running. Then even at full throttle in forward or reverse, I am only able to hold half the full rpm’s I am able to achieve in neutral.

This may be a prop issue. When the boat is placed in gear the load on the prop is too great. This will cause the engine to bog down. Without a load, i.e., in neutral the engine is able to run at its designed speed.

This boat has an Edson pedestal and no engine stop lever. To shut down the engine, I push the throttle closed and it shuts down. Since I am constantly fiddling with the throttle while trying to keep it alive and having to restart it when it quits, I have found it annoying to find the idle position. There is no detent? No idle position at all? Is it just missing? Or broken? I don’t feel any difference in the throttle action all the way from stop to full throttle.

Is this the standard Edson with one lever for throttle and one for transmission? If so, there is no "idle" position the throttle. The cable may not be adjusted properly leaving the idle speed too slow which when combined with the prop issue causes the engine to stall at low rpm. Is the absence of a stop lever or switch by design or by some prior owner's better idea?

 

[716thomashall]

I was worried I might be over propped. I have no idea what prop that is except that it is a 2 blade.

As for the Edson. I think it is all stock. I looked in the cockpit at the instrument panel and I don't see any hole where a stop lever could have gone and there is no notch in the glass for a mounting point either. On the engine, there is also just one attachment point for the throttle linkage so I don't even know where a stop lever cable would even attach. I suppose I could try to find a throttle control engine lever off a different model engine and see if I could try to modify it to have an engine stop.

 

[dlochner]

The answers to some of the questions may be here: http://www.downeasteryachts.com/wp-...Model-30-operation-and-maintenance-manual.pdf

Look for a spring on the throttle. It should pull the throttle back to the idle position.

 

[kloudie1]

Check fuel supply very closely.. all filters, look for a collapsed fuel line, maybe check for a plugged screen on the fuel pickup tube inside the tank. Getting up to high rpm with no load requires very little fuel from the injectors.. under load, the governor tries to get a lot more fuel to the injectors.. There is the possibility of a clogged screen in the electric lift pump.. the pump will have been replaced at least once and it may have an internal filter screen..

 

[716thomashall]

Thanks everybody. I will go through the whole fuel system and make sure it is all in good shape and let you know!

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

While everyone is trying to be helpful, it’s largely a guessing game via the internet which is more likely to just pull you in various different directions. Troubleshooting engine issues on the internet isn’t helpful generally.

If you can find a local who knows the 5411, that would be my first suggestion. Alternatively, a diesel marine engine mechanic. The season in Buffalo is too short to drag this out and what you describe could cause damage to both your boat and others if it fails in a marina when docking.

 

[dmax]

If it is only getting to 130 degrees F, it's possible the PO or someone has removed the thermostat or it's stuck open. You should check that out at some point, though it should still run Ok at that temp and not be stalling.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Good luck. There's also this to check while you're troubleshooting:

Fuel Starvation and The Obscure Check Ball Valve
Fuel Starvation and The Obscure Check Ball Valve
and
Fuel Starvation and The Obscure Ball Check Valve

 

[716thomashall]

Good thing to check! Thanks!

 

[Tally Ho]

Do you have a single-lever control? Or separate throttle and transmission levers?

What kind of prop? Some feathering props are aggressive in reverse (Kiwi, MaxProp) and could explain the engine dying in rev at idle.

Or as @kappykaplan noted, could be dirty prop…

What are the RPM’s when in Neutral at idle?

 

[716thomashall]

It has separate controls for throttle and gear selection. There technically is no idle. I can set it to any amount I want from full throttle to engine stop. The engine stop is done through the same lever. No detent or anything to indicate “idle”. No engine stop lever or any hole indicating it ever had one.