Hypothetical go or no go

Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
I am curious as to how one would depart or approach this harbor with a North wind at 25 Knots and waves of seven feet. The harbor is dredged to a depth of 10' as of this year and the draft is 4'. Sails include small heavy weather jib and main. The channel is 70' wide and has stone jetties on each side reducing the navigable width to 55'. I know this will be a clean the boat and catch up on domestic responsibilities weekend for me but I am curious just the same. :eek:
 

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Feb 2, 2010
373
Island Packet 37 Hull #2 Harpswell Me
I certainly would not depart from your port with the weather as you described, unless on a full tide there is a good chance of touching bottom, loose the engine and you are on the wall.
 
Apr 11, 2010
969
Hunter 38 Whitehall MI
With a wave height of 7 feet and a water depth of only 10 feet you could easily see the depth in the trough of the waves get down to 3 feet. The best that could happen would be that you drag bottom and the worst is that you drive the keel right up through the bottom of the boat. Stay put. As my grandfather used to say "there are old sailors and there are bold sailors but there are no old bold sailors".
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,086
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Which way is North? With waves that big every wave will stop your boat dead as your motor won't have enough power to punch through them. Without forward motion your rudder will stall and the waves will smash you on the rocks. Given the shallow bottom those waves will be very steep almost vertical. I doubt your 11 HP motor will give you any ability to make forward progress. Too risky, stay put.
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
I fully agree with all. North is up and here is the full chart with inset: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/14805.shtml The next deep water harbor is Rochester which is about 30 miles east. Olcott to the West is about the same and is much smaller. Port Hope is 30 miles North which should have smaller waves as it would be an offshore wind. I can say I would be more inclined to make for Rochester while remaining offshore if caught out in such conditions. Besides all that it is raining and quite chilly. Definitely one of the, "Better to be ashore wishing you were sailing; than sailing and wishing you were ashore," days.
 

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,704
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
I have been to Oak Orchard numerous times and I think you can enter it in 7 foot seas no problem. Once you slip behind the T you will be in reasonably protected water. If seas are running, then the water will pile up making the 10 ft depth deeper. If seas are running a bit NE, the approach from from the west where that T will protect you. Leaving, is a different matter, especially if one is under powered.
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
Hi Higgs. I saw your harbor today on webcam and they are getting some nice rollers up the channel. Best I've done so far is five foot but going out the East was the way to go with the westerly wind. My Atomic 4 is pretty good but as you know a turn behind the wall is tight and an engine failure is catastrophic. With the North wind today and all weekend neither side looks enticing. I will have to make it a point to sail over and say hi sometime. I hear Olcott is a quaint little place much as I remember when I was working out of there doing environmental sampling for the Somerset power plant back in the early seventies.
 
May 24, 2004
7,164
CC 30 South Florida
Yes, no need to leave under those conditions but if you have to come in I would take the marked channel to starboard at a slow speed just enough to maintain steerage reserving a thrust of power to turn behind the breakwater wall.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,134
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Which way is North? With waves that big every wave will stop your boat dead as your motor won't have enough power to punch through them. Without forward motion your rudder will stall and the waves will smash you on the rocks. Given the shallow bottom those waves will be very steep almost vertical. I doubt your 11 HP motor will give you any ability to make forward progress. Too risky, stay put.
I can say from experience that an 11 hp diesel (Universal) could not push an 8,300 lb yacht (Pearson 30) through the water against even 6-ft seas in comparable wind at greater than about 1 kt of speed. But if yours could do at least that, you'd probably be making some way through the water, thus avoiding the fate above. However, I don't see why you'd have to. On departing, motor with reefed main up to near the breakwater where you'd be protected, more or less. Bear off westerly until clearing the breakwater, head up to close-hauled, and deploy the #4 for more speed/power [perhaps deploy even before clearing], and you're away! A little wet, perhaps. Wave height at 7 ft means that the trough of the wave would be near 3.5 to 4 ft below level water. Whereas you should not strike bottom at 10 ft of water depth, there's not much spare depth under your low point, but w/heeling you'd lose a few inches of draft there (i.e., now < 4 ft underway & hard on the wind). Depart near the turn to ebb tide or right at slack water following flood tide if you can. Within a minute or two of clearing the breakwater on a northwesterly course you should gain a ft or two more of depth. But, I don't know why anyone would want to do this, except maybe to impress a girlfriend who would never go sailing with you again!!

http://secoora.org/classroom/virtual_wave/glossary
 

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Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
I think you pretty much nailed it KG. I am spending the weekend ashore having gone out Friday night for a delightful few hours before everything went to phooey. We are fortunate/unfortunate not to have to contend with tides on the Lakes but we don't get a really long season either. Damn cold most of the time. I was curious how others would approach this especially coming in as this is a harbor of refuge. The Pearson 30 is an extremely capable boat to use for an example. My Oday 27 is a bear to keep steady with a quartering sea. The charter boats often come in throwing a huge wake and it is challenging to keep from being broached and enjoying a rock or concrete date. I like the sail combination you propose.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,134
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I think you pretty much nailed it KG. I am spending the weekend ashore having gone out Friday night for a delightful few hours before everything went to phooey. We are fortunate/unfortunate not to have to contend with tides on the Lakes but we don't get a really long season either. Damn cold most of the time. I was curious how others would approach this especially coming in as this is a harbor of refuge. The Pearson 30 is an extremely capable boat to use for an example. My Oday 27 is a bear to keep steady with a quartering sea. The charter boats often come in throwing a huge wake and it is challenging to keep from being broached and enjoying a rock or concrete date. I like the sail combination you propose.
As I do see now that you're on a lake [Ontario]; we can disregard my comment about tide unless speaking generally for a similar situation.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,134
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Yes, no need to leave under those conditions but if you have to come in I would take the marked channel to starboard at a slow speed just enough to maintain steerage reserving a thrust of power to turn behind the breakwater wall.
Would you be entering from the east or west side of the breakwater?; it's not clear from your statement. In either event, I wonder whether or not dead slow is best. The slower your speed relative to the seas the more you [potentially] get pushed around. Better to go in a little hot, IMHO.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Local knowledge is worth it's weight in gold. I would also get advice from other sailors that need to approach this entrance in these conditions. If you are departing the harbor, what is so important that you leave under these conditions?
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
I think under these conditions I would opt for the western entrance as it has deeper water around the approach. I have used jib only to help steady the boat although the conditions were 4' and 15 knots. With the engine running in neutral it could be used to provide a quick shot against the rudder to kick the stern in line. Thoughts?
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
Hi Steve. Most of the folks own dock queens where I am. There are maybe 6 of us that sail regularly. Of the 6 none went out this weekend either. The last fellow who tried some crazy weather now has abandoned his boat with it dismasted and broken in half. It sits across from me for storage. Next time I'm down there I'll get some pictures. :cry:
 

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