I have Maxwell 800 windlass and it doesn't work. I guess the motor is gone. So, I'm thinking of buying new windlass and use with all chain. So what will be your advice? I have a 60Lb. Mason Supreme anchor. What kind of chain and what windlass will be the best combination. Thinking of 300' of 3/8 or 5/16 HT chain. Also new windlass should match existing mounting pattern. Thanks.
Hunter Passage 42 windlass upgrade
- Thread starter Zaya
- Start date
I, too, have been windlass shopping. I decided to go with the 5/16" chain and 5/8" 8-ply rode. The Maxwell RC-8 and Lewmar H2 seem like good winches. There's an Anchorlift of appropriate size, but I haven't rally heard much feedback on any of them. I am considering a 24V system to lower the current loss in the wire run, but then I have the added weight of the additional battery forward. My decision has been put off until I can both afford and definitely need the windlass. My first step will be to upgrade the anchor, chain, and rode. Since you have an anchor system appropriate for you, you are ahead of me in this regard.
The replacement/repair of an existing system may be the option with the least stress and expense.
The replacement/repair of an existing system may be the option with the least stress and expense.
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Replace Windlass
Hi Zaya, I would defer to the manufacturer of whichever windlass you select. They can recommend what chain size works best. I have 5/16th G40 with three strand nylon on our boat with the original windlass. Perhaps rebuilding your windlass would be an option to consider rather than all new. Just a thought.
Hi Zaya, I would defer to the manufacturer of whichever windlass you select. They can recommend what chain size works best. I have 5/16th G40 with three strand nylon on our boat with the original windlass. Perhaps rebuilding your windlass would be an option to consider rather than all new. Just a thought.
windlass upgrade on P42
WINDLASS. I have gone through the same process you are considering. In my case I bent the mainshaft on the windlass during an anchoring incident where my snublines kept breaking and I had to lay directly to the windlass for a while. Although I had it replaced (in Auckland at Maxwell's main facility), it was never the same. The circuit breaker kept popping out when I put a large load on it.
I replaced the 800 unit with a Maxwell VWC 1200, which is significantly more powerful. You don't have to alter or upgrade any of the existing wiring. I can't remember if I had to replace the circuit breaker, but if I did do so it was so simple that I cannot remember it.
The 1200 fits into the same place where the original 800 was located. However, you will need to make a minor modification if you wish to use the same bolt holes that are already there. I did not want to drill additional holes, so here is what I did.
The 1200 mainshaft is larger in diameter that the 800, so the shaft won't fit through the mainshaft hole in the plate that marries the windlass to the fiberglass on the anchor locker side of things. I solved that by having a machine shop ream that hole to the same size as the windlass mainshaft. That was all that was needed. I then used the new 1200 windlass, and the original plate that is on the anchor locker side of things. The only downside is that when I reamed out the mainshaft hole it rendered the zerk fittings unusable. I had always meant to take them off and have a shop fix that. However, it is now 15 years (and hundreds of anchorings) later, and it still works fine.
I think the 1200 is a perfect replacement for the 800, and my circuit breaker has NEVER popped out, despite my making some pretty harsh demands of it. For example, in very bad weather I sometimes have to use the windlass to help pull the boat forward to hoist anchor. I have done so, placing a huge load on it, while pulling up 3/8" chain from a depth of 50' or more. I love the thing.
CHAIN. I have never used a combination chain/rope rode, so I am incompetent to comment upon that. I have used 5/16", 3/8", 8 mm, and 10 mm chain. The 5/16" and 3/8" were hi-test. As you know, each different size requires a different chainwheel (cathead). Maxwell manufactures them for all sizes and types. The last time I bought one I seem to remember it being a bit over $100. I have several (as a result of having to match the cathead to whatever chain I am buying at the time). You won't be able to use your current (800) cathead on your new (1200) windlass since the shaft diameters are different.
I used to carry 350' of chain in the anchor locker. Anchorages run deep in certain parts of French Polynesia, so I carried that. However, now I carry only 300' of 3/8" hi test, and that has been fine. For ordinary anchoring I generally use a 3:1 or 3.5:1 scope (unless I am in shallow water) and have never dragged. For heavy weather anchoring I extend up to a 4:1 or 5:1 scope, and have never dragged. With all of that weight out there it is my feeling that the scope requirements diminish. NOTE: I am not trying to move this thread toward a discussion on anchoring technique, but I just wanted to answer your question on what combination of chain/windlass we all suggest.
I really like what I have, and can heartily recommend it. The reason I went with 3/8" high test instead of ordinary 3/8" is twofold. First, it has been my experience that the galvanizing on the high-test lasts longer before rusting. More importantly, the breaking strength of the chain takes a fear-factor out of heavy weather anchoring. We've been through a couple of incidents where the wind velocities were up over 50 knots, sometimes with attendant seas. As we all know too well, the P42 moves around a lot at anchor, and a beam wind over 50 puts A LOT of stress on the ground tackle. Without the hi-test, the safe working load of the chain becomes a consideration. Then I start to worry about having stretched links in the chain after such an incident. I also worry about diminishing the integrity of the chain after a re-galvanization. High test obviates all those concerns.
Of course you'll need to obtain an appropriately sized and tested anchor swivel as well (to match the hi-test 3/8" chain and your anchor shackles). I can't remember the brand I finally found, but it was not only acceptable in strength and manufacture, but it also fit through that channel in the bow plate. I'll be seeing my boat in a month and I can get that info for you if you'd like. I do remember that it wasn't easy to find.
Good luck with your upgrade. Cheers,
Paul
WINDLASS. I have gone through the same process you are considering. In my case I bent the mainshaft on the windlass during an anchoring incident where my snublines kept breaking and I had to lay directly to the windlass for a while. Although I had it replaced (in Auckland at Maxwell's main facility), it was never the same. The circuit breaker kept popping out when I put a large load on it.
I replaced the 800 unit with a Maxwell VWC 1200, which is significantly more powerful. You don't have to alter or upgrade any of the existing wiring. I can't remember if I had to replace the circuit breaker, but if I did do so it was so simple that I cannot remember it.
The 1200 fits into the same place where the original 800 was located. However, you will need to make a minor modification if you wish to use the same bolt holes that are already there. I did not want to drill additional holes, so here is what I did.
The 1200 mainshaft is larger in diameter that the 800, so the shaft won't fit through the mainshaft hole in the plate that marries the windlass to the fiberglass on the anchor locker side of things. I solved that by having a machine shop ream that hole to the same size as the windlass mainshaft. That was all that was needed. I then used the new 1200 windlass, and the original plate that is on the anchor locker side of things. The only downside is that when I reamed out the mainshaft hole it rendered the zerk fittings unusable. I had always meant to take them off and have a shop fix that. However, it is now 15 years (and hundreds of anchorings) later, and it still works fine.
I think the 1200 is a perfect replacement for the 800, and my circuit breaker has NEVER popped out, despite my making some pretty harsh demands of it. For example, in very bad weather I sometimes have to use the windlass to help pull the boat forward to hoist anchor. I have done so, placing a huge load on it, while pulling up 3/8" chain from a depth of 50' or more. I love the thing.
CHAIN. I have never used a combination chain/rope rode, so I am incompetent to comment upon that. I have used 5/16", 3/8", 8 mm, and 10 mm chain. The 5/16" and 3/8" were hi-test. As you know, each different size requires a different chainwheel (cathead). Maxwell manufactures them for all sizes and types. The last time I bought one I seem to remember it being a bit over $100. I have several (as a result of having to match the cathead to whatever chain I am buying at the time). You won't be able to use your current (800) cathead on your new (1200) windlass since the shaft diameters are different.
I used to carry 350' of chain in the anchor locker. Anchorages run deep in certain parts of French Polynesia, so I carried that. However, now I carry only 300' of 3/8" hi test, and that has been fine. For ordinary anchoring I generally use a 3:1 or 3.5:1 scope (unless I am in shallow water) and have never dragged. For heavy weather anchoring I extend up to a 4:1 or 5:1 scope, and have never dragged. With all of that weight out there it is my feeling that the scope requirements diminish. NOTE: I am not trying to move this thread toward a discussion on anchoring technique, but I just wanted to answer your question on what combination of chain/windlass we all suggest.
I really like what I have, and can heartily recommend it. The reason I went with 3/8" high test instead of ordinary 3/8" is twofold. First, it has been my experience that the galvanizing on the high-test lasts longer before rusting. More importantly, the breaking strength of the chain takes a fear-factor out of heavy weather anchoring. We've been through a couple of incidents where the wind velocities were up over 50 knots, sometimes with attendant seas. As we all know too well, the P42 moves around a lot at anchor, and a beam wind over 50 puts A LOT of stress on the ground tackle. Without the hi-test, the safe working load of the chain becomes a consideration. Then I start to worry about having stretched links in the chain after such an incident. I also worry about diminishing the integrity of the chain after a re-galvanization. High test obviates all those concerns.
Of course you'll need to obtain an appropriately sized and tested anchor swivel as well (to match the hi-test 3/8" chain and your anchor shackles). I can't remember the brand I finally found, but it was not only acceptable in strength and manufacture, but it also fit through that channel in the bow plate. I'll be seeing my boat in a month and I can get that info for you if you'd like. I do remember that it wasn't easy to find.
Good luck with your upgrade. Cheers,
Paul
Thanks! For all information. I really appreciate. How about Maxwell VW1000 windlass? http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2276108|2276145|2276147&id=1057210 or maybe better VW1500? http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2276108|2276145|2276147&id=1057227 the difference in price not so much but much stronger...
I was thinking of repair my 800. Maybe just buy new motor, but I'm not sure if different size on chain wheel for 800 available to match new chain. 800 was discontinued long time ago. So the point is why play with something that old if I can get newer model with all new parts/spares available.
I'm really considering all 5/16 HT chain 300'-about 100 meters. Would it be strong enough for boat of this size? or go with 3/8" HT?
The last-anchor I got Mason Supreme 60 lb. it's one size up for 42 footer any comments on that?
I was thinking of repair my 800. Maybe just buy new motor, but I'm not sure if different size on chain wheel for 800 available to match new chain. 800 was discontinued long time ago. So the point is why play with something that old if I can get newer model with all new parts/spares available.
I'm really considering all 5/16 HT chain 300'-about 100 meters. Would it be strong enough for boat of this size? or go with 3/8" HT?
The last-anchor I got Mason Supreme 60 lb. it's one size up for 42 footer any comments on that?
More on the P42 anchors and chain
I'm not familiar with the other Maxwell models (1000 or 1500), so I can't really comment on the interchangeability of the sizes for installation on a P42. However, I can tell you that a 1200 has more than enough power for a P42, so I see no need for a higher HP (if that is why you'd want the 1500).
I had 5/16" high test chain for a while and it served me very well. I didn't switch to the larger chain until I was caught in a cyclone in NZ and had serious concerns about the strength of my chain. I performed my calculations using the engineering tables in Earl Hinz's book (The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring), and I felt that I was pushing the envelope with the weight of my boat. (My P42 weighed 30,000 pounds the last time she was weighed). I rely upon the additional weight of the 3/8" for my assessment that I can now get away with less scope due to the effect of the heavier chain on the catenary.
I think your anchor size and type is excellent. My primary anchor is also 60 lbs, although it is not a Manson Supreme, but a CQR. I carry a variety of anchors, including a Fortress FX 85 and a Luke [fisherman's] 80. BUT the CQR has never dragged, so I keep the others stowed solely for use as storm anchors. I think a 60 pound anchor is plenty good enough for a P42 for just about anything. When we have been in the really big blows I have had the storm anchors ready for immediate deployment if the CQR dragged, but it never has. If the CQR won't drag, I certainly don't see the Manson dragging.
Hi Zaya,
I'm not familiar with the other Maxwell models (1000 or 1500), so I can't really comment on the interchangeability of the sizes for installation on a P42. However, I can tell you that a 1200 has more than enough power for a P42, so I see no need for a higher HP (if that is why you'd want the 1500).
I had 5/16" high test chain for a while and it served me very well. I didn't switch to the larger chain until I was caught in a cyclone in NZ and had serious concerns about the strength of my chain. I performed my calculations using the engineering tables in Earl Hinz's book (The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring), and I felt that I was pushing the envelope with the weight of my boat. (My P42 weighed 30,000 pounds the last time she was weighed). I rely upon the additional weight of the 3/8" for my assessment that I can now get away with less scope due to the effect of the heavier chain on the catenary.
I think your anchor size and type is excellent. My primary anchor is also 60 lbs, although it is not a Manson Supreme, but a CQR. I carry a variety of anchors, including a Fortress FX 85 and a Luke [fisherman's] 80. BUT the CQR has never dragged, so I keep the others stowed solely for use as storm anchors. I think a 60 pound anchor is plenty good enough for a P42 for just about anything. When we have been in the really big blows I have had the storm anchors ready for immediate deployment if the CQR dragged, but it never has. If the CQR won't drag, I certainly don't see the Manson dragging.
Paul! Thanks a lot, your information very useful. I just checked for VWC 1200 and was not able find one for sale, looks like its older model, but I found this new one VW 10. Please take a look. http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2276108|2276145|2276147&id=2235502 I think this one will be the best choice, isn't it? Yes you convinced me about 3/8" HT chain, I'll go with it. I will be looking forward for the information of the make of anchor swivel you have. Thanks again.
Vadim
s/v Zaya
Vadim
s/v Zaya
Hi Vadim,
I looked at the newer model you identified, the VW 10. I can't tell from the information on the web whether it will fit into the spot, and utilize the same holes, as your 800. When I did my modification the holes were so close that it was impossible to tell that they were not the same until I had the unit in hand and was installing it. It wasn't that the holes were in a different configuration, but that the angle of the motor was different and that would have made it impossible to fit in the allotted space without modifications. I suspect you'll have to get the unit and put it in place to find out. I don't know your particular circumstances as far as what chandleries are nearby. When I do something like this I'll buy a unit from West Marine and if it doesn't fit then I'll take it back. Sometimes I've even bought two or three competing units from West and returned the ones I didn't want. If there's no restocking or ordering fee, then nothing's lost. And if West won't ultimately match Defender's price, then I'll return it and buy it from Defender.
I still had the purchase information from the swivel I bought, and it was from Defender: http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|2259973|2260017|2260036&id=1315995. Let me know if that doesn't get you to it. The Defender item number is 001636, and it is a FORGED EYE-TO-EYE SWIVEL 5/8". It cost $34.99 15 years ago, and is now $42.99.
Best of luck. Cheers,
Paul
Hi M, yes, I changed my windlass over to a maxwell 1200 (VWC if I remember correctly). The unit fit fine; I just had to machine the hub hole for the larger diameter main shaft. That unit is out of production now, but it might be the new VW 10-10.
Cheers,
Paul
Cheers,
Paul
