Our 410 came equipped with a solid boom vang. I recently found that the vang came without its gas insert which is used to push the boom up and effect twist. I called the broker who told me that Hunter stopped using the inserts because the arch is used to keep the boom from falling into the cockpit. He said twist can be increased by letting out the sheet. I told him that I was calling this a bull---- excuse. Why have the vang if it is not complete? Also, if I allow the boom to rest on the arch, it would do so exactly where the main sheet block is located. The block would be destroyed. The only thing keeping the boom up on our boat is the topping lift. This is a second example, in MHO, of Hunter not doing the right thing with respect to the equipment on a boat. The first was when I blew out a spinnaker sheave on the Selden furling mast. I was told it would not be honored because it occurred during "racing conditions". And, our boat was past its three year warranty. I'm a very loyal Hunter owner, but I was taken back by these two examples of lack of follow through with customers. Am I off base? John Richard s/v Jack's Place
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Annoying
My reaction to the vang is.. huh? Why bother with a solid vang at all then? You'd think a soft vang would be a whole lot less. Something's weird. I'd call Hunter directly and ask to get their take. FWIW, my Spin-lock solid vang (after-market) didn't have a gas cartridge or spring either. I replaced it with a Garhauer with custom ends to fit the SL's. Seems to me that a hard vang misses the point without a gas cartridge or spring. My Vision 32 standard vang had a spring. As to the spinnaker sheave, I have some sympathy for the position, but you'd think they might have helped you lean on Selden some. Rick D.
My reaction to the vang is.. huh? Why bother with a solid vang at all then? You'd think a soft vang would be a whole lot less. Something's weird. I'd call Hunter directly and ask to get their take. FWIW, my Spin-lock solid vang (after-market) didn't have a gas cartridge or spring either. I replaced it with a Garhauer with custom ends to fit the SL's. Seems to me that a hard vang misses the point without a gas cartridge or spring. My Vision 32 standard vang had a spring. As to the spinnaker sheave, I have some sympathy for the position, but you'd think they might have helped you lean on Selden some. Rick D.
Selden
Wonder what Selden has to say about the vang and sheave? I have the same vang on my 33, and previously on my 290. With the 290, I always wondered how the vang was adjustable as it was always at the retracted position (yes, I'm fairly new at this). Had no topping lift on the 290. Until this post, I just figured I had to ease the vang line and haul up the topping lift a little. Didn't realize the vang was supposed to be spring or gas loaded.
Wonder what Selden has to say about the vang and sheave? I have the same vang on my 33, and previously on my 290. With the 290, I always wondered how the vang was adjustable as it was always at the retracted position (yes, I'm fairly new at this). Had no topping lift on the 290. Until this post, I just figured I had to ease the vang line and haul up the topping lift a little. Didn't realize the vang was supposed to be spring or gas loaded.
The broker is an idiot
for all the reasons you already suspect. Rick is right. The piece wasn't right to begin with so do an end run and contact Hunter and Seldon (not necessarily in that order.) Be sure to document the crap the broker is trying to pass off. The sheave is another story. It's not under warranty. Yeah, it'd be nice if they (Seldon or Hunter) stepped up but hey, stuff breaks. Replace it and move on.
for all the reasons you already suspect. Rick is right. The piece wasn't right to begin with so do an end run and contact Hunter and Seldon (not necessarily in that order.) Be sure to document the crap the broker is trying to pass off. The sheave is another story. It's not under warranty. Yeah, it'd be nice if they (Seldon or Hunter) stepped up but hey, stuff breaks. Replace it and move on.
John,
I wouldn't be so quick to blame Hunter for what the dealer is telling you. Sounds to me like the dealer is either an idiot or a liar. The reason for having a solid vang is to support the boom and REPLACE the topping lift. A rope vang can haul down on the boom as well as a solid vang, but only a solid vang can exert upward force to raise the boom. I have a Hallspar Quick Vang with an internal adjustable spring to support my 35.5 boom.
I wouldn't be so quick to blame Hunter for what the dealer is telling you. Sounds to me like the dealer is either an idiot or a liar. The reason for having a solid vang is to support the boom and REPLACE the topping lift. A rope vang can haul down on the boom as well as a solid vang, but only a solid vang can exert upward force to raise the boom. I have a Hallspar Quick Vang with an internal adjustable spring to support my 35.5 boom.
John, Bag the Dealer....
.... and call Hunter. I had major problems with my boat when new, and Hunter stepped up to the plate and addressed each issue. The dealer was doing the John Kerry waffleing thing when Hunter finally got involved. They actually sent 3 guys from the factory up to Ohio for 3 days to work on my boat. I guess I am less impressed with the boat, but more impressed with Hunter. Sounds like your post should be titled Hunter Dealer fails to correct problem, not that Hunter has failed to correct the problem Ricks advice about replacing the sheave is correct, although annoying that it needs replacement. Good luck..... Jeff
.... and call Hunter. I had major problems with my boat when new, and Hunter stepped up to the plate and addressed each issue. The dealer was doing the John Kerry waffleing thing when Hunter finally got involved. They actually sent 3 guys from the factory up to Ohio for 3 days to work on my boat. I guess I am less impressed with the boat, but more impressed with Hunter. Sounds like your post should be titled Hunter Dealer fails to correct problem, not that Hunter has failed to correct the problem Ricks advice about replacing the sheave is correct, although annoying that it needs replacement. Good luck..... Jeff
The FURL BOOM comes with the gas strut.
The furl mast option does not include the gas strut. The standard strut can be set at a length (by adjusting attachment point on boom) so that the boom will clear the arch, and the topping lift can then be removed. The furl boom option comes with the gas strut, because of the excessive weight of the larger boom and the fully battened mainsail inside the boom. It is nearly impossible to lift a furl boom set up with just the topping lift, so the gas strut is included. Just adjust your current set up to clear the arch and your finished. If there is not enough wind to induce twist in your main, maybe you should be motoring anyway?
The furl mast option does not include the gas strut. The standard strut can be set at a length (by adjusting attachment point on boom) so that the boom will clear the arch, and the topping lift can then be removed. The furl boom option comes with the gas strut, because of the excessive weight of the larger boom and the fully battened mainsail inside the boom. It is nearly impossible to lift a furl boom set up with just the topping lift, so the gas strut is included. Just adjust your current set up to clear the arch and your finished. If there is not enough wind to induce twist in your main, maybe you should be motoring anyway?
Sorry Joe, I disagree big time.
Solid vangs are indeed to keep the boom lifted clear of what needs to be cleared (arches, noggins, etc.) as you say, as well as specifically locating the boom to facilitate furling (in boom or mast.) However, on ANY boat so equipped a properly set up solid vang's real beauty is in it's ability to allow the trimmer to properly adjust twist from the cockpit without having to clip and unclip topping lifts or run to the mast to pin and repin the vang. On a fluky day I find the sail calling for changes in twist as often as angle of attack or draft. The arrangement you suggest John should settle for would indeed often relegate him to motoring, except that he could be easily powering up with an efficiently trimmed sail (especially on a main driven boat like the 410) on lighter days with a properly configured vang. Motor because he can't properly trim the sail? Come on now, let's keep the man sailing when at all possible. Best regards.
Solid vangs are indeed to keep the boom lifted clear of what needs to be cleared (arches, noggins, etc.) as you say, as well as specifically locating the boom to facilitate furling (in boom or mast.) However, on ANY boat so equipped a properly set up solid vang's real beauty is in it's ability to allow the trimmer to properly adjust twist from the cockpit without having to clip and unclip topping lifts or run to the mast to pin and repin the vang. On a fluky day I find the sail calling for changes in twist as often as angle of attack or draft. The arrangement you suggest John should settle for would indeed often relegate him to motoring, except that he could be easily powering up with an efficiently trimmed sail (especially on a main driven boat like the 410) on lighter days with a properly configured vang. Motor because he can't properly trim the sail? Come on now, let's keep the man sailing when at all possible. Best regards.
buy the strut
If memory serves, it costs about a hundred bucks and takes four minutes to install. Send a copy of the invoice to Hunter, along with a nasty note saying SHAME ON THEM for not following the manufacturer's suggestions regarding the proper outfitting of a Seldon Rod-kicker vang, and for being so cheap/underhanded that they've once again cut one corner too many to be able to use the slogan "Hunter goes the distance." Don't expect to get your money back. I didn't.
If memory serves, it costs about a hundred bucks and takes four minutes to install. Send a copy of the invoice to Hunter, along with a nasty note saying SHAME ON THEM for not following the manufacturer's suggestions regarding the proper outfitting of a Seldon Rod-kicker vang, and for being so cheap/underhanded that they've once again cut one corner too many to be able to use the slogan "Hunter goes the distance." Don't expect to get your money back. I didn't.
let me know if it works
My h410 (year 2000) also came with rigid vang, no gas insert. When I priced it, it was a lot more than $100, so I have not yet bothered. Also have not yet bothered to move the vang attachment aft on the boom, but it clearly needs to be moved. If Hunter gives you a gas spring, I'd like one too (but I am not expecting one from them) S/V Breathless h410 #250
My h410 (year 2000) also came with rigid vang, no gas insert. When I priced it, it was a lot more than $100, so I have not yet bothered. Also have not yet bothered to move the vang attachment aft on the boom, but it clearly needs to be moved. If Hunter gives you a gas spring, I'd like one too (but I am not expecting one from them) S/V Breathless h410 #250
Update on the Vang Issue
I have just completed a back and forth emailing with Hunter. The first paragraph is my statement of the situation. And the second one is their response. There were others in between, but suffice it to say, I think the recent weather back there has caused a malfunction in their logical thinking process. From Me: "I recently found that the solid vang that came with the boat came without a gas or spring insert. As such, it is quite useless when trying to raise the boom to adjust twist. There is a topping lift but it does nothing but keep the boom off the arch. The point where the arch passes beneath the boom is exactly where the block for the mainsheet is located. The implication by adding a solid vang is that it is to support and raise what it was intended to raise. What use is a solid vang if it doesn't do this? You might as well have installed a vang made of line instead. I feel this is an oversight and needs to be corrected by Hunter. I approached the dealer and was told that Hunter has not been putting inserts into the vang because the arch supports the weight of the boom." From Them: "I did pass this along to the engineering department, when they designed this they decided that the shock would be an optional item and did not offer this as standard, all of the 410's with the furling mast have this same design." My problem is that this "option" was never brought to my attention when I was configuring the boat with the dealer. But even so, it totally defies logic as to why a manufacturer would put a gizmo on a boat and then not set it up to work as it was originally intended to be by its manufacturer. A 410 is a big boat with a lot of forces acting upon its rig. A topping lift is totally useless when trying to raise the boom while parked in the slip. I am not physically capable to use the lift to raise the boom. It is really a heavy sucker. If I ran up to the mast and tried to do so during conditions that needed more twist, I would need a second power winch to do so. I've fired my best shot and will bite the bullet has buy the bloody thing. John Richard s/v Jack's Place
I have just completed a back and forth emailing with Hunter. The first paragraph is my statement of the situation. And the second one is their response. There were others in between, but suffice it to say, I think the recent weather back there has caused a malfunction in their logical thinking process. From Me: "I recently found that the solid vang that came with the boat came without a gas or spring insert. As such, it is quite useless when trying to raise the boom to adjust twist. There is a topping lift but it does nothing but keep the boom off the arch. The point where the arch passes beneath the boom is exactly where the block for the mainsheet is located. The implication by adding a solid vang is that it is to support and raise what it was intended to raise. What use is a solid vang if it doesn't do this? You might as well have installed a vang made of line instead. I feel this is an oversight and needs to be corrected by Hunter. I approached the dealer and was told that Hunter has not been putting inserts into the vang because the arch supports the weight of the boom." From Them: "I did pass this along to the engineering department, when they designed this they decided that the shock would be an optional item and did not offer this as standard, all of the 410's with the furling mast have this same design." My problem is that this "option" was never brought to my attention when I was configuring the boat with the dealer. But even so, it totally defies logic as to why a manufacturer would put a gizmo on a boat and then not set it up to work as it was originally intended to be by its manufacturer. A 410 is a big boat with a lot of forces acting upon its rig. A topping lift is totally useless when trying to raise the boom while parked in the slip. I am not physically capable to use the lift to raise the boom. It is really a heavy sucker. If I ran up to the mast and tried to do so during conditions that needed more twist, I would need a second power winch to do so. I've fired my best shot and will bite the bullet has buy the bloody thing. John Richard s/v Jack's Place
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