hunter 49 steering quadrant.

[Zencra]

Hi everyone, we're in Tunisia for winter and attempting to get some urgent John's done before crossing back next December. Our quadrant needs to be drilled and sleeved back to original size but to avoid this happening again I'm posting a photo of the worn quadrant, the stainless sleeve and other parts used. I'm suspicious that these may not have been the original intended parts. the stainless sleeve doesn't seem to go far enough into quadrant, it only seems to go in 17mm or just under 11/16". to minimise wear I'm thinking it should at least press all the way through. Also is the curved shoulder on the sleeve part of the sleeve or can it be pressed off, and last question, can someone tell me the order that these parts should be installed? I really want to try and get this right before heading off. we've done over 25,000 miles since purchase and I'm sure this has been an issue from the start. Any information is much appreciated.
kind regards
Craig

 

[Zencra]

 

[Zencra]

should it possibly be installed as in my pic here with one steering arm above and one below quadrant? Mine was installed with both above quadrant.

 

[Zencra]

 

[Zencra]

 

[artboas]

Ok

View attachment 212551

Is this the arm that connects the 2 Lewmar rods together ?
If so, your hardware is wrong.
It is a stack up of bushing, custom bolt, etc.
Your best bet is to contact Lewmar, because they engineered the mamba system for Hunter.
Unfortunately, it’s winter here, and my boat is covered. Maybe a H49 owner in sunnier climate can help you with a photo

 

[artboas]

View attachment 212550

Ok
Just looked at your photos again
The arms are actually called draglinks
It looks like yours are installed with the draglinks above and below the arm, but hard to say. On mine, they stack one above the other, and there are hollow bushings to space them
You might try Joe Kerr at SBO support

 

[Zencra]

yes mine were stacked one on top of the other too but this caused the curved end of bush/pin shoulder to wear into quadrant. it also didn't go all the way through quadrant hole. then with all the force from steering action it has eventually elongated the hole in quadrant. I have at at the shop being machined right now but I might try one above or one below to stop leverage on the pin. I'd love to see a pic of original intended parts then maybe I could have something machined here as importing anything into Tunisia is almost impossible. I've sailed conservatively when crossing oceans and keep boat balanced as much as possible and still have this wear.
also I didn't have a spacer between the two arm ball joints.

 

[Zencra]

yes mine were stacked one on top of the other too but this caused the curved end of bush/pin shoulder to wear into quadrant. it also didn't go all the way through quadrant hole. then with all the force from steering action it has eventually elongated the hole in quadrant. I have at at the shop being machined right now but I might try one above or one below to stop leverage on the pin. I'd love to see a pic of original intended parts then maybe I could have something machined here as importing anything into Tunisia is almost impossible. I've sailed conservatively when crossing oceans and keep boat balanced as much as possible and still have this wear.
also I didn't have a spacer between the two arm ball joints.

 

[Zencra]

I found this pic of another 49 and it's nothing like my setup. what are the parts in seeing here, how does it go together?

 

[artboas]

I found this pic of another 49 and it's nothing like my setup. what are the parts in seeing here, how does it go together?

This is more or less correct
They are missing the flat washer that goes on top of the upper drag link end.below the nut.
There must also be a flat washer at the bottom underneath the arm.
You must have these large tube spacers. They spread the huge load out over the surface of the arm.
I am not surprised that your current setup mangled the aluminum hole in the arm. Definitely not correct.
Also, I believe the bolt in this photo is installed upside down
To my recollection, it’s a long shoulder boat, with relatively short thread. You don’t want the thread at the aluminum end.
I’ve had mine apart many times, and always recall the nut at the top.
So,, you need an accurate hole in the arm just the size of the bolt OD plus 1 RCH.
Then, the stainless bushings stack up, as shown in the photo.
There are 2 SS bushings. Note that the larger bushing is flat on the bottom, and beveled on the top. I believe the OD is approx 1”
You MUST use a nylock nut on the bolt.
There must be flat washers :
Between the nylock & the drag link top
Underneath the arm between the surface & bolt head
Now, once you have all of this sorted out, go to the Mamba bevel gear heads that connect the wheels to the drag links. These are mounted with 4 bolts to the platform. I’m going to bet they are loose, and the gear units are sliding around when steering. These must be checked seasonally to ensure all is tight.
Here is my next reccomendation
The mamba steering is amazing, and if aligned properly will give you fingertip steering at each helm
Before connecting the drag links back up, walk through the system looking for friction points
Put grease on the rudder stock where it meets the upper bearing.
Test each component for freeness, and lightly grease the u joints.
Move the rudder by hand, and see how it feels.
rotate each steering wheel without the drag link re-attached. There should be zero friction
Then, slowly build up the system, checking for friction and alignment as you go. This is a very high stress part of the boat’s mechanics, and any friction will result in worn out parts

Hope this was helpful

 

[artboas]

This is more or less correct
They are missing the flat washer that goes on top of the upper drag link end.below the nut.
There must also be a flat washer at the bottom underneath the arm.
You must have these large tube spacers. They spread the huge load out over the surface of the arm.
I am not surprised that your current setup mangled the aluminum hole in the arm. Definitely not correct.
Also, I believe the bolt in this photo is installed upside down
To my recollection, it’s a long shoulder boat, with relatively short thread. You don’t want the thread at the aluminum end.
I’ve had mine apart many times, and always recall the nut at the top.
So,, you need an accurate hole in the arm just the size of the bolt OD plus 1 RCH.
Then, the stainless bushings stack up, as shown in the photo.
There are 2 SS bushings. Note that the larger bushing is flat on the bottom, and beveled on the top. I believe the OD is approx 1”
You MUST use a nylock nut on the bolt.
There must be flat washers :
Between the nylock & the drag link top
Underneath the arm between the surface & bolt head
Now, once you have all of this sorted out, go to the Mamba bevel gear heads that connect the wheels to the drag links. These are mounted with 4 bolts to the platform. I’m going to bet they are loose, and the gear units are sliding around when steering. These must be checked seasonally to ensure all is tight.
Here is my next reccomendation
The mamba steering is amazing, and if aligned properly will give you fingertip steering at each helm
Before connecting the drag links back up, walk through the system looking for friction points
Put grease on the rudder stock where it meets the upper bearing.
Test each component for freeness, and lightly grease the u joints.
Move the rudder by hand, and see how it feels.
rotate each steering wheel without the drag link re-attached. There should be zero friction
Then, slowly build up the system, checking for friction and alignment as you go. This is a very high stress part of the boat’s mechanics, and any friction will result in worn out parts

Hope this was helpful

Craig

for more insight , PM me.

 

[artboas]

should it possibly be installed as in my pic here with one steering arm above and one below quadrant? Mine was installed with both above quadrant.

Ok
I’ve now studied your collection of nuts, bolts, and other hardware, and can tell you (with great certainty) what happened on your boat.
Look at the size of the hole in your rudder arm.
That is the same size as the ID of the rod end on drag link.
The original bolt has a shoulder which exactly fits these sizes. I’m confident that it’s a metric size. I think it’s M9 or M10
So, for some reason, your hardware disappeared
Somebody found a piece of round stock that matched the ID of the hole, had they bored a hole through it for the next smaller bolt size.
They fabbed up 2 washers with slight shoulders, and pressed one onto the sleeve. The other was a sliding fit.
They then grabbed a whole bunch of flat washers, and clamped the rod ends above and below the arm.
The bolt was smaller than the ID of the rod ends, so they just tightened the nuts as much as possible, hoping it would hold things in place.
But, everything got loose, and the bolt just started wobbling, digging a pit into the aluminum arm.
You are correct that you’ll need to get a bushing pressed into the arm to bring it back to size. You could go with a bronze oilite bushing, or just fab something out of stainless.
So, I hope this gives you a clear path to fixing this.

 

[Zencra]

This is more or less correct

thanks Art, and yes your spot on again. My linkages we're all loose but I found that a few years ago along with many other parts including keel. you're take on what happened is exactly as I suspected. I wish I could see a pic of all the original parts.
I'm having a bush machined and pressed in from stainless and should be ready tomorrow for pick up. I'll do as you say and check all friction points. I want to keep the ball joints at quadrant as close to quadrant as possible so less leverage force and hopefully less wear. I'll let you know how I go

 

[artboas]

thanks Art, and yes your spot on again. My linkages we're all loose but I found that a few years ago along with many other parts including keel. you're take on what happened is exactly as I suspected. I wish I could see a pic of all the original parts.
I'm having a bush machined and pressed in from stainless and should be ready tomorrow for pick up. I'll do as you say and check all friction points. I want to keep the ball joints at quadrant as close to quadrant as possible so less leverage force and hopefully less wear. I'll let you know how I go

Ok
Here’s what’s important.
The inside of the new bushing needs to be the same ID as the rod ends.
I’m not sure if yours are inch or metric
You can see that the taller bushing is about the same height as the thickness of the rudder arm
The upper bushing is approx 1/4 of that height
Be sure to chamfer the upper part of the large bushing, and both ends of the short one
As far as OD, that’s not critical. Just scale it off the drawing. It’s likely a standard shaft size.
You need a bolt that is not threaded full length
And, ensure that the threaded end is up.
You don’t want the threads in the aluminum arm.
Lastly, you must use a nylock nut with washer underneath
Hope this gives you enough info

 

[Screen Saver]

This the original install on my Hunter 49 2008 model bought new & done over 110,000nm and I have never touched it. Any questions I'm happy to help

 

[artboas]

This the original install on my Hunter 49 2008 model bought new & done over 110,000nm and I have never touched it. Any questions I'm happy to help

110,000 NM?? I’m really impressed . Great to know that the 49 can do such extensive cruising.

 

[Screen Saver]

110,000 NM?? I’m really impressed . Great to know that the 49 can do such extensive cruising.

Average about $10k ever year for last 14 years. last year Philippines to Sydney. That wont happen this year she needs a bit of TLC, but probably later this year will start possibly the last $10k year Syd, New Cal, Fiji, Micronesia Palau, back to Philippines which will become home. Not to much about her I dont know theses days.... Enjoy.

 

[sailor832]

looking at your pic and the subsequent pics I would say yours go one on the top and one on the bottom this would be the best supported method the two on toward going to put a lot of pressure on the mounting hardware.

 

[Screen Saver]

Yea I see your point. Im not 100% sure I agree, and it has done many miles. Having just had a look at your suggestion of putting one on either side, I note the ruder end could be done easily, but the result at the other end of the arm would not be easily resolved on my boat. Physically at the rudder end you could place one top and one bottom, but at the other end, the tie rod end (at the gear box) would hit the the arm on the steering box when on full port lock ( and vicer versa) and it would no longer be in parallel alignment horizontally. it would be pushing at an angle.
Probably 80% of my steering is autopilot based and the arm that does this driving is one on the bottom, so has the least leverage. Moving it would be of no advantage, but yep moving the the top one I think could have been wise if the alignments worked out.

If you need a bit a break and bored you might want to read these.
Nothing technically helpful to you, but not a bad story on my first solo passage and the only steering problem I have ever had.
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