Hunter 42 passage waste tank questions!

[eianm]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I have a 1991 Passage 42 and I seem to have some issues with my holding tank. All been good up until last weekend , noticed a "toilet" smell- not nice. Went out offshore and ran the macerator pump out, but not sure that worked , so went to the yacht club and used their vacuum pump out- no luck- when we removed deck hose connection , we were holding a vacuum- so , either breather blocked- breather line/hose blocked, or a blocked line- no idea- does anyone have any thoughts or excperience here please?
Also - on the series 1 passages- can anyone tell me exactly where the waste tank is- is it under the water heater? If so , once the heater is removed, can you then got to it- is there an inspection hole- where is the outlet hose?
Also , probably dumb questions, but what is correct procedure for pumping out via macerator - I opened the sea cock and simply ran the macerator- but it didnt sound right- after about 5 mins it sounded like the motor was about to die!
Also , what is correct procedure for using a dockside vac pump out?
Thank you- I will be very grateful for any assiatance please.
Eian M- Sydney , Australia!

 

[KD3PC]

Eian

on my 1991 the holding tank is on the starboard side under the settee and the air conditioner. Pump out is simple...open the deck fill attach pump out vacuum and good to go...if this does not work then you have a vent or vent like problem...

no sewage smells at all. we do use KO at every pump out and do not do the bleach rinse as some others.

I have the macerator and your process is the one I would use outside our limits.

 

[Bill Roosa]

venting the holding tank

Even if the vent is clogged the toilet will allow air into the tank. It will not keep the smell out of the boat however. this would lead me to believe that you have a collapsed hose from the tank to the macerator/deck port. When either method of pumping out is used a vacuum is applied to that hose and if it collapses you get no/low flow.
You macerator should go through three distinct sound regimes. Prime, pump, final run dry. the prime sounds like the motor taking up a load with the RPMs reducing a bit, the pumping phase will have various random RPM fluctuations and the pump handles the more solid parts of the tank contents, the final run dry sound like the load being removed.
so RPM high then drops, RPM varies, RPM goes high and stays there.

 

[Scott B]

Eian, I'm going to move this one over to The Head Mistress forum. Peggie is the resident expert on tracking down odours and plumbing issues.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Eian, your tank vent is blocked

Do not use the toilet again or attempt to pump out or dump the tank again until you've cleared the blockage, which is most likely to be in the vent thru-hull.

It's not necessary to access the tank to clear a blocked vent. You'll find instructions for doing that if you search for "blocked holding tank vent" in the Head Mistress forum. However, it's entirely possible that continuing to use the toilet against a blocked tank vent pressurized the tank enough to force contents to leak around a fitting or an inspection port.

Sorry Bill..unless the joker valve is so worn that it might as well not even be there--and it's unlikely even in that event, the toilet willl NOT supply enough air to prevent the pumpout or macerator from pulling a vacuum that prevents pumping out or dumping the tank.

To run a macerator, it's only necessary to open the seacock and turn on the macerator. If you'd read the manual for it, you'd know that it moves 12 gpm, which will empty a 36 gallon tank in 3 minutes. It began to sound like it was about to die because the motor was overheating because it couldn't pull any waste through it...and letting it run for 5 minutes without pumping anything through it prob'ly destroyed the impeller.

Pumping out is easy: connect the threaded fitting from the pump out to the deck fitting on the boat--or jam the neoprene "universal" nozzle into it hard enough to create a seal and hold it there--and turn on the pumpout...watching the sight glass in the pumpout hose to make sure waste is being pulled out. If it's not, CEASE PUMPOUT IMMEDIATELY!! If the pumpout is a strong one, continuing to try to pump out against a blocked vent can result in a cracked tank.

Several times a year, rinse out the tank after pumping out to remove any sludge. You'll find directions for doing that in the Head Mistress forum discussions too.

You need to search for and locate all the equipment on your boat...you can't maintain hose connections etc if you don't know where they are. You also need to read the instruction manuals--which may only be a single sheet, but still has instructions--for all your equipment. If you don't have manuals, you can download most of 'em from the mfrs' websites. If you'd read the macerator manual BEFORE using it, you'd have known not to let it run for 5 minutes...and saved yourself the cost of a new impeller, if not a new macerator!

I thought you'd bought my book...if not, you can get it from Boat Books Australia Boatbooks Australia Click on the link in my signature to see the complete table of contents. It'll teach you how to maintain the system to prevent problems like this one instead of trying to cure them...prevention is always cheaper, easier and a LOT less aggravating than cure!

 

[John Nantz]

Aluminum Holding Tank

Another issue to throw into the mix: the original holding tanks during these years were aluminum. Guess some people didn't feel "plastic" tanks represented good construction.

My guess is the original has probably been replaced by the one that you have now. If it hasn't then it sure held up well.

It could be possible that some leakage could be coming from the tank, too. If not, I'd try to find out if the tank is the original or a replacement, and if it was replaced and it is aluminum, try to find out when it was replaced. I'm not sure what the shortest lifespan was of the original tanks were but in any event it would be something good to keep an eye on. Or maybe even a nose!

Owning a boat can be almost a full-time job keeping up with all the required maintenance and trying to trouble-shoot problems.

 

[Steve Dion]

Eian:

I think that the macerators have a screw on the top. It allows you to "free" up the impeller. I would try turning the screw to see if it loosens up the impeller. I think this can be a problem when the pump is not exercised periodically

 

[Guest]

Head Winds

Hi Elan, some food for thought in the following article:

Both heads flushed normal during the survey. Keep in mind our new boat (91 model year that we purchased in 2002) spent most of her time at the dock with little to no use for several years. The admiral and I had been cleaning below decks to get Belle-Vie ship shape. We cleaned and checked the forward head and it worked normal, except for a loud thump beneath the admiral's feet, while sitting in the starboard setee. Did the same with the aft head. The first time it flushed fine, then it would not discharge; the water just swirled in the bowl.

I borrowed a plunger from my neighbor thinking the discharge line was plugged, but to no avail. So, I pulled the discharge line from the head, and after releasing a considerable amount of compressed air, went about attaching a city water hose to the line to clear it. The first time it seemed to clean it out after some rumbling. Again, it released compressed air when I disconnected the city water line.

I tried it one more time just to make sure. I remembered reading a forum article about plugged holding tank vents, so I pulled the starboard sole board covering the holding tank and disconnected the vent line from the tank. I then connected the city water line to the vent hose and looked to see if anything was coming out of the scupper. Nothing! Nada! Zip!

I took a small screw driver, and hanging over the side, inserted it into the scupper and gently poked at the opening. First I got a hiss, then a whoosh of water as the pressure blew out some little critter's nest or dried sludge that had plugged the opening. After reconnecting the vent and discharge lines, I checked the heads again and both worked like a charm.

Our standard procedure now is to follow Peggie Hall's advice:

1. Flush one gallon of fresh water through each head to clear out the discharge line.
2. Pump out tank, then fill with fresh water.
3. Pump out tank then fill with about four gallons of fresh water and repeat until clear water pumps out.
4. Using a special city water hose adapter that fits over the vent scupper I force fresh water back through the vent line to make sure that it is clear.
5. Add another four gallons of water and pump out again; repeat until clear water pumps out.
6. Flush each head with one quart of Odorlos mix.

Shortly after solving the plugged vent scupper problem the same symptom appeared again. This time it was plugged at the tank. Our SS tank has a 1/4 inch bronze elbow that the vent line clamps to. This elbow was plugged with a calcified material. I used a bent wire coat hanger to auger out this material.

As a closing note, thanks to those who have contributed articles to this forum, and especially to Ms. Peggie Hall. They have been very helpful to me in solving Belle-Vie's mostly minor problems. Belle-Vie's holding tank and head system remains trouble free after five years of cruising the PNW waters.

Terry Cox

 

[Guest]

Head Operation

Hi Elan, more food for thought in another article that follows:

Our P42 has two electric heads that draw raw water for flushing into one holding tank. The power panel has one switch for both heads and a macerator switch for the overboard macerator pump. Each head has a through hull for raw water flushing. The head uses a combo pump and macerator motor to bring raw water in for flushing and a macerator for chewing up the material on its way to the holding tank during the flushing operation.

Each head has an electrically operated anti siphon solenoid valve; aft is located in the engine compartment and forward is located inside a small compartment forward of the main cabin cabinets starboard side. These help to prevent water from siphoning into the bowl after flushing since both the heads and holding tank are below the waterline.

The holding tank on our boat is located beneath the main cabin sole starboard side by the setee. The through hull seacock for the macerator pump is located on the forward side of the holding tank. A small sole compartment hatch on the starboard side next to the compression post is where we have two seacocks; one for the forward cabin head raw water intake and the other for the holding tank macerator pump. Our macerator draws from the tank via a wye valve arrangement.

When it's time for use I first open the through hull, turn on the head switch and activate the flush button to bring in some raw water to the bowl. When ready I hold the flush button down for at least five full seconds to allow enough time for the bowl contents to reach the holding tank. I return everything to their normal position when done.

If our tank is close to full, there is no pump out facility nearby and we're in a legal place to dump I will open the macerator pump through hull and activate the macerator switch until the tank is empty. The pump sound will change to a slightly higher but distinctive pitch at that point. Close all through hulls when done. Raw water will slowly seep back into the holding tank if left open.

Terry Cox

 

[Guest]

Holding Tank

Hi Elan, and more food for thought in the article below:

Ronco Plastics has quoted me $275 USD for a replacement tank. Seems about right to me. They must have a mold for our model. Our original SS tank stll seems to be okay for now. Their e-mail response follows:

Dear Terry:
The cost of the tank will be $275.00 for the Hunter 42 Passage.
Please make sure you have included a drawing for your order with the inlet, outlet, vent, and size of the fittings.

Sincerely,
Sheila
Ronco Plastics, Inc.
714-259-1385 (ph)
714-259-0759 (fax)
RONCOINC@aol.com

Terry Cox

P.S. I inspected our 1991 SS tank last week just to make sure things were still okay; they were, but the tank does show some signs of reaching end of life. Our original Jabsco electric toilets continue to work every time, never clog and draw about twelve amps while flushing for about five seconds, which is almost nothing.

 

[Guest]

Holding tank

Hi Elan, and again more food for thought that follows:

The 26 gallon P42 holding tank is located beneath the main cabin sole next to and in front of the starboard setee. Once you remove several bronze flat head screws, that section of the sole can be wiggled towards the center of the boat, then lifted up and out.

Another item to check is the holding tank vent. When we purchased ours in early 2002 we did not know that it was plugged. A good way to check it is to apply city water pressure at the scupper, which on ours is a small clam shell shaped chrome metal fixture on the starboard side (the only one in this location) just forward of midship. I use a cone shaped nozzle that has a seal around the rim so that I can apply water pressure into the vent hose. You can hear and feel water flow or not.

Our P42 has two fresh water aluminum tanks; a 65 gallon beneath the forward cabin berth and an 85 gallon beneath the main cabin sole port side midship.

I've learned so much about all of the systems on our boat just through experience. One other thing to remember, be sure to open the raw water intake through hull for the water pump that feeds both heat pumps BEFORE turning them on. This through hull is located beneath a small sole hatch next to the companionway ladder. This small sole compartment has two other through hulls; aft head raw water intake and galley sink drain.

I normally keep all through hulls closed until I need them, except of course for the cockpit drains. Anything else you need to know about the boat please feel free to ask. Also, please check out several P42 articles in the "Hunter Owner Modifications".

Terry Cox

 

[Guest]

Closing thoughts

Hi Elan, a few more comments before I rest. It appears your tank vent line is clogged like ours was when we took ownership in 2002. That would explain why you could not evacuate the tank contents from either a dock side pump out station or the overboard macerator pump.

The hose for the macerator pump and the deck pump out hose share the same holding tank draw tube via a wye fitting (not a valve). The macerator pump will work as long as the deck pump out cap is secured and the tank vent is clear.

Terry Cox
e-mail: thcpmc8269@frontier.com