I was recently on a delivery of a new Hunter 380. The delivery was from St. Augustine, FL. to Barbados, W.I. The sail covered approxiatly 2000 miles in 14 days with one 14 hour stop in Tortola BVI. I will give my observations and expierences with this boat on this trip. When the owner of the vessel took delivery there was a problem with the rudder. When we arrived to take the boat we began the pre-sail inspection one of the first things we checked was the fitting of the emergency tiller. The slot was filled with epoxy to the top and the emergency tiller could not be fitted. After some phone calls to the Hunter factory a tech was sent down to effect the repair. This was done by drilling the epoxy out. The rig on this vessel was the B&R rig but with a Seldon roller furling mast. The additional lower support bars were not fitted. When we departed the wind was 12 to 15 knots from the North. Our intention was to sail due east for several days and then head due south for Barbados. This was in hope of favorable winds once we hit the trades. The wind quickly veered and incresed in velocity to 20 to 30 knots for the next 7 days. Therefore we were sailing close hauled and arrived in Tortola 8 days later. The seas were fairly large and the vessel took a lot of green water on the deck. We expierenced a number of leaks in the boat. There was a considerable amount of water leaking in from the overhead light fixtures and air conditioner vents. There was also leaks in the aft cabin appearantly from the hull deck joint. The vessel was equiped with a Raython auto pilot. The gears fell off the shafts a couple of times and the pilot would go to stand-by for no appearent reason and usually at the most inoportune times. Sometime several times a watch. The boat pounded excessivly and saw dust was comming from the seams in the interior of the boat. The fore sail furling system chaffed through. The vessel was equiped with a excellent Force 10 cooker but was improperly gimbiled and did not have full travel.(installation problem) The Yanmar performed flawlessly. Fuel use appx. 1/2 gallon per hour. The Seldon furling main sail was difficult and very slow to reef. The aft cabin berth was unusable in the normal way due to the heel of the boat. The V-Berth was of coarse untenable due to the pounding. The biggest concern was the mast. It was wigiling like a worm even though all the rigging was tight. It gave us a lot of concern and the bolt cutters were kept handy. We were able to make enough easterly to pass the Bahamas and made a land fall in Tortola on day 8 to effect repairs and refill the small water tank (75 gallons) and fuel tank appx. 32 gallons. After 14 hours we set sail for Barbados. We were able to sail on a beam reach for short periods of time between Tortola and Barbados. The vessel sailed well and fast in a 15 to 20 knot breeze on the beam. Upon arrival in Barbados we had a chance to use the windless and it worked well with all chain rode. The vessel was equipped with a stainless steel arch which after you learned to duck when entering the cockpit was good security while moving around the cockpit and also to connect teathers. This boat had the shoal draft wing keel. If anyone has any specific questions reguarding my experience with this particular 380 I will do my best to respond. My intent is not to be totally negitive about this boat. I am a Hunter owner myself and am very happy with my vessel. The experience I have with the 380 is entirely blue water mostly close hauled in a brisk breeze with sizeable seas. This was a new boat and it's real first sea trial was a 2000 mile sail to windward
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Thanks! Some questions and comments.
Thanks for an excellent description of your offshore experiences under difficult conditions. This kind of article should be of great help to Hunter owners with blue-water aspirations. Before anyone gets completely discouraged by all the problems experienced with vessel, rig and autopilot under these conditions, however, I should point out that it usually takes a minimum of 1-2 years of extended sea-trials and upgrading before a medium-light cruiser-racer like a Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau, Jeanneau or J-boat can be transformed into a suitable offshore vessel. Without knowing the 380 it sounds to me that much of what you describe here is typical for a brand new, medium light sailboat of this size trying to beat into 20-30 knot winds (and probably 8-14 ft waves?). Although most of the leaks could probably have been fixed by extended sea-trials before going offshore, some leaks will tend to keep springing up with that much green water coming over the bow. How much weight was in the bow? Moving heavy anchors and chain aft and not filling the bow water tank completely can make a big difference. Neither the negative experience with the autopilot (is this particular model hydraulic or electromechanic?) nor with the furling main amazes me. At 30 knots and, presumably, heavily reefed anyone will have a tough time beating into heavy seas. However, at 20-25 knots and single-reefed a fully battened main may give you more drive and reduce the pounding, particularly in combination with handsteering of each individual wave or with a windvane selfsteering system which adapts to the wave-induced apparent windshifts, thereby capable of steering a more seakindly course than an autopilot which tries to steer a constant magnetic course. Also, whereas autopilots tend to have a hard time in heavy seas (partly because of their insensitivity to fine windshifts) a good windvane tends to get stronger and more responsive in high winds. What worries me, however, is your description of the mast "wiggling". Our own fractional rig (Hunter Legend 43, hull #1) still has backstays. Also, we always use additional running backstays in heavy seas. With our rig I have never observed mast instability (in more than 30,000 NM at sea, quite a bit of it beating upwind or reaching in heavy ocean swells). If other Hunter owners with backstayless rigs have observed the same kind of mast instability it might be wise to install some good running backstays before going offshore. Otherwise, it could be due to the furling type mast with all the extra weight (particularly when the main is largely furled) and/or improper rig tuning. Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II"
Thanks for an excellent description of your offshore experiences under difficult conditions. This kind of article should be of great help to Hunter owners with blue-water aspirations. Before anyone gets completely discouraged by all the problems experienced with vessel, rig and autopilot under these conditions, however, I should point out that it usually takes a minimum of 1-2 years of extended sea-trials and upgrading before a medium-light cruiser-racer like a Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau, Jeanneau or J-boat can be transformed into a suitable offshore vessel. Without knowing the 380 it sounds to me that much of what you describe here is typical for a brand new, medium light sailboat of this size trying to beat into 20-30 knot winds (and probably 8-14 ft waves?). Although most of the leaks could probably have been fixed by extended sea-trials before going offshore, some leaks will tend to keep springing up with that much green water coming over the bow. How much weight was in the bow? Moving heavy anchors and chain aft and not filling the bow water tank completely can make a big difference. Neither the negative experience with the autopilot (is this particular model hydraulic or electromechanic?) nor with the furling main amazes me. At 30 knots and, presumably, heavily reefed anyone will have a tough time beating into heavy seas. However, at 20-25 knots and single-reefed a fully battened main may give you more drive and reduce the pounding, particularly in combination with handsteering of each individual wave or with a windvane selfsteering system which adapts to the wave-induced apparent windshifts, thereby capable of steering a more seakindly course than an autopilot which tries to steer a constant magnetic course. Also, whereas autopilots tend to have a hard time in heavy seas (partly because of their insensitivity to fine windshifts) a good windvane tends to get stronger and more responsive in high winds. What worries me, however, is your description of the mast "wiggling". Our own fractional rig (Hunter Legend 43, hull #1) still has backstays. Also, we always use additional running backstays in heavy seas. With our rig I have never observed mast instability (in more than 30,000 NM at sea, quite a bit of it beating upwind or reaching in heavy ocean swells). If other Hunter owners with backstayless rigs have observed the same kind of mast instability it might be wise to install some good running backstays before going offshore. Otherwise, it could be due to the furling type mast with all the extra weight (particularly when the main is largely furled) and/or improper rig tuning. Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II"
sawdust
We had a similar experience after taking our 410 through her first series of offshore gales. Sawdust seemed to pour out of every cabinetry seam, enough that I was concerned about it clogging the bilge pumps. It seems that Hunter is badly in need of a shop vac.........The unfortunate reality is that quality assurance on new production boats--not just hunters--is in the hands of the owners. Hunter appears to be happy to repair/replace everything on your punch list, but it's up to you, the owner, to find the leaks and creaks. Taking a brand-new hunter on an extended offshore sea trial is ill advised, in my opinion. Sail the heck out of the boat in protected waters until you're certain you've found all the glitches and gremlins, and then you should be able to voyage it with confidence. I suppose that this is bad news for those who wish to take offshore deliveries with production boats.........as regards the mast pumping on that rig, it shouldn't. There is probably something wrong with the tuning, because you should not have to add running backstays on that rig. (Although I tend to concur with everything else Henk wrote in the previous post, I respectfully disagree with his coinage of the phrase "good running backstays." They are evil things, those runners, only to be deployed on whippy racing sticks or super-long cruising masts.).......I've been reading the posts about 380 bluewaterability with interest these past few days, because a buddy of mine recently bought one and i've had a few chances to either crew on his craft or buddy-boat with him. Despite the obvious similarities, I find it to be a very different boat that my 410, especially considering the 380's higher sail area/displacement ratio. The difference becomes apparent when we raft up, because his stick is higher than mine! (oops. mast envy. lets hope there are no freudians reading this post.) My friend is outraged that his PHRF rating is 12 seconds per mile higher than mine, but he can sail circles around me in light air Let it blow, though, and I can waterline him every time, not that I would EVER race my hunter. Regardless, although I prefer a less tender craft than the 380 when venturing offshore, I would begrudgingly deem up to the task, especially if its somewhat low tankage could be augmented. That said, I would register a complaint about those backwards (forward-swept) arches on the 380. At 6'3"' I find them to be unacceptable head knockers. Sheesh.
We had a similar experience after taking our 410 through her first series of offshore gales. Sawdust seemed to pour out of every cabinetry seam, enough that I was concerned about it clogging the bilge pumps. It seems that Hunter is badly in need of a shop vac.........The unfortunate reality is that quality assurance on new production boats--not just hunters--is in the hands of the owners. Hunter appears to be happy to repair/replace everything on your punch list, but it's up to you, the owner, to find the leaks and creaks. Taking a brand-new hunter on an extended offshore sea trial is ill advised, in my opinion. Sail the heck out of the boat in protected waters until you're certain you've found all the glitches and gremlins, and then you should be able to voyage it with confidence. I suppose that this is bad news for those who wish to take offshore deliveries with production boats.........as regards the mast pumping on that rig, it shouldn't. There is probably something wrong with the tuning, because you should not have to add running backstays on that rig. (Although I tend to concur with everything else Henk wrote in the previous post, I respectfully disagree with his coinage of the phrase "good running backstays." They are evil things, those runners, only to be deployed on whippy racing sticks or super-long cruising masts.).......I've been reading the posts about 380 bluewaterability with interest these past few days, because a buddy of mine recently bought one and i've had a few chances to either crew on his craft or buddy-boat with him. Despite the obvious similarities, I find it to be a very different boat that my 410, especially considering the 380's higher sail area/displacement ratio. The difference becomes apparent when we raft up, because his stick is higher than mine! (oops. mast envy. lets hope there are no freudians reading this post.) My friend is outraged that his PHRF rating is 12 seconds per mile higher than mine, but he can sail circles around me in light air Let it blow, though, and I can waterline him every time, not that I would EVER race my hunter. Regardless, although I prefer a less tender craft than the 380 when venturing offshore, I would begrudgingly deem up to the task, especially if its somewhat low tankage could be augmented. That said, I would register a complaint about those backwards (forward-swept) arches on the 380. At 6'3"' I find them to be unacceptable head knockers. Sheesh.
Leaps of Faith
Thanks for sharing your experiences with a fresh off the production line boat. Carol and I took delivery of a new H410 in San Diego and brought it up to Redondo Beach via Catalina Island. It was the roughest conditions we have ever encountered in this boat with 30+ knot winds and 10 foot seas. The boat did well but it rained sawdust every time we slammed down off those waves. Very few leaks but we did knock loose the autopilot motor after one particularly hard drop. I'm happy to report that the mast and rigging were very solid and I believe the struts had a lot to do with the stability. I agree with John, Henk, and Gator that a long shake-down period is advisable before a new factory boat is taken on a serious trip. I give the H410 an A+ during our 100 mile trip but I was pretty nervous testing the boat like this on her first sail. Jeff and Carol s/v Twilight
Thanks for sharing your experiences with a fresh off the production line boat. Carol and I took delivery of a new H410 in San Diego and brought it up to Redondo Beach via Catalina Island. It was the roughest conditions we have ever encountered in this boat with 30+ knot winds and 10 foot seas. The boat did well but it rained sawdust every time we slammed down off those waves. Very few leaks but we did knock loose the autopilot motor after one particularly hard drop. I'm happy to report that the mast and rigging were very solid and I believe the struts had a lot to do with the stability. I agree with John, Henk, and Gator that a long shake-down period is advisable before a new factory boat is taken on a serious trip. I give the H410 an A+ during our 100 mile trip but I was pretty nervous testing the boat like this on her first sail. Jeff and Carol s/v Twilight
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