I'm considering a Hunter 36 or 356 in San Francisco Bay vs. a Catalina 36. I prefer the layout of the Hunter 36; however, the Hunter seems to have higher freeboard. We have strong winds...how do you think the Hunter 36 would sail in those conditions with a single or double reef?
Hunter 356 or 36 in San Francisco Bay
- Thread starter Dfharris02
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Just down the dock from me in Emeryville are a pair of Hunter 356's part of Sailtime fractional ownership scheme. I think sometimes they go out to sail. In any case I bet you could talk to somebody there and either get a trial/checkout sail one fine summer day, not much wind as you know in the winter.
Backstays are your friend
I'd be more comfortable with a boat that has a little more standing rigging on SF Bay. I'm not really sold on fractional rigs yet. Maybe that's due to having been aboard a Sail time owned 2005 Hunter 36 that that de-masted in some really hairy conditions in the Gulf of Mexico. A 15k blow w/3' to 5' sea's.
I know why they have those huge arches over the cockpit now. If not, someone could have died that day.
I'd be more comfortable with a boat that has a little more standing rigging on SF Bay. I'm not really sold on fractional rigs yet. Maybe that's due to having been aboard a Sail time owned 2005 Hunter 36 that that de-masted in some really hairy conditions in the Gulf of Mexico. A 15k blow w/3' to 5' sea's.
I know why they have those huge arches over the cockpit now. If not, someone could have died that day.
I'm no fan of no backstays on larger fractional rigged boats. In bigger wind conditions bending the mast to de-power the main is a critical control that's missing. That said, the B&R rig is arguably the strongest available for any sloop. A headstay failure on any boat will cost the rig regardless of the design unless it has an inner forestay for support.
Freeboard can certainly be an issue in leeway. A deep draft would help considerably to alleviate the leeway. After installing a deep fin keel in place of the shoal wing keel the leeway on my boat dropped dramatically.
I suggest you do as John recommends and take them out for a sail. Buying a boat is a major undertaking and I would not even consider a boat that I haven't sailed to experience the characteristics of the boat for myself. It would be like buying a car having never driven it first, makes no sense.
Freeboard can certainly be an issue in leeway. A deep draft would help considerably to alleviate the leeway. After installing a deep fin keel in place of the shoal wing keel the leeway on my boat dropped dramatically.
I suggest you do as John recommends and take them out for a sail. Buying a boat is a major undertaking and I would not even consider a boat that I haven't sailed to experience the characteristics of the boat for myself. It would be like buying a car having never driven it first, makes no sense.
We get heavy winds on Lake Michigan, even bigger than a 15K blow with 3-5' seas, hey. Never a problem with the 356, either with rigging or freeboard. I realize it's largely a matter of personal preference, but I prefer having a large main and smaller jib in heavy conditions. The large-main can be reefed and shaped much more effectively (I feel) than a small-main/large-jib rig. I haven't felt windage is a problem, any more than with any other modern boat, certainly. The deep keel version would be a plus.
PK: I sailed up the coast of California from Dana Point to SF on a Hunter 376 without a backstay. We sailed around Pt. Conception in heavy seas and there was never any issue with the rig. There are boats all over the world that do not have them and they are fine.
I think the OP was asking which Hunter to buy, not should he buy a Hunter. I'm sure I could find many examples of traditional rigged Bene's etc. that have de-masted. I've been out in worse conditions in mine without any issues, same year 2005, Hunter 33.
I also know of at least 3 Hunter 49's that are or have gone around the world.
Steve Pettengill is Hunters own "crash-test dummy" His job is take out each model of Hunter offshore and try to get them to break.
An article in Canadian Yachting on the Hunter 49 with a side bar about Steve and this article from USYachts, although a few years old,is still valid.
I would have not hesitation about taking a B&R rig out in rough conditions.
I also know of at least 3 Hunter 49's that are or have gone around the world.
Steve Pettengill is Hunters own "crash-test dummy" His job is take out each model of Hunter offshore and try to get them to break.
An article in Canadian Yachting on the Hunter 49 with a side bar about Steve and this article from USYachts, although a few years old,is still valid.
I would have not hesitation about taking a B&R rig out in rough conditions.
PK - Some details, please
PK -
I sail my 05H36 up and down the New England coast, and fairly often in Force 6 or 7 conditions. (I have an oversized mainsail, so it has 3 reef points, and serves me well as long as it's not actual gale force.)
After 8500nm in her (including one knockdown), I have a lot of confidence in the B&R rig. In fact, the 3-point mast staying and struts make the loss of a backstay adjustment and need to fly an assymmetric spinaker when running well worth it to me.
I'd very much appreciate any details you can provide on the dismasting incident, for obvious reasons. (I'd want to adjust my rig inspection routines accordingly.)
Was it a headstay failure, or prolonged mast-pumping, or chainplate failure, or .....??
Thanks.
Fair winds,
Al - s/c Persephone
PK -
I sail my 05H36 up and down the New England coast, and fairly often in Force 6 or 7 conditions. (I have an oversized mainsail, so it has 3 reef points, and serves me well as long as it's not actual gale force.)
After 8500nm in her (including one knockdown), I have a lot of confidence in the B&R rig. In fact, the 3-point mast staying and struts make the loss of a backstay adjustment and need to fly an assymmetric spinaker when running well worth it to me.
I'd very much appreciate any details you can provide on the dismasting incident, for obvious reasons. (I'd want to adjust my rig inspection routines accordingly.)
Was it a headstay failure, or prolonged mast-pumping, or chainplate failure, or .....??
Thanks.
Fair winds,
Al - s/c Persephone
You actually can probably easily test sail all the candidates.
Windpath? or Windsong is a fractional ownership setup that runs Catalinas out of South Beach marina.
Sailtime is a fractional ownership setup operating out of Emery Cove.
They both always seem to be looking for both new owners or members. So if you show up expressing interest you should be able to get a sail. I my experience the sea trial was the last step in the buying process. So you are already well invested in a particular boat prior to actually getting to sail it.
Have you considered a nice Beneteau?
They are great boats, come in several flavors at each length
First series = race ( but not crazy spartan)
Oceanis series = cruise ( but not a slug)
Windpath? or Windsong is a fractional ownership setup that runs Catalinas out of South Beach marina.
Sailtime is a fractional ownership setup operating out of Emery Cove.
They both always seem to be looking for both new owners or members. So if you show up expressing interest you should be able to get a sail. I my experience the sea trial was the last step in the buying process. So you are already well invested in a particular boat prior to actually getting to sail it.
Have you considered a nice Beneteau?
They are great boats, come in several flavors at each length
First series = race ( but not crazy spartan)
Oceanis series = cruise ( but not a slug)
IIRC, the Catalina 34 has the same layout down below as the Hunter 36. Aft head, nav station to port facing aft, starboard settee and galley, and aft cabin. You may have a reason for staying at 36 feet, like minimum size to liveaboard in certain marinas, but as far as layout, they're the same. Who came first with that design doesn't matter.
There are Hunters out sailing SF Bay all the time. We do see more Catalinas, though, in the central bay where the winds blow hardest during the summer.
There are Hunters out sailing SF Bay all the time. We do see more Catalinas, though, in the central bay where the winds blow hardest during the summer.
356/36
OK I have a 36 with inmast and love it and pretty sure sail the same depending on which sail plan you get inmast or regular batten sails.
But the boats are pretty much the same boat except for the galley so see which galley you like the best the 36 has a refrig and different storage setup so look at them both and see which you and admiral prefer.
Nick
OK I have a 36 with inmast and love it and pretty sure sail the same depending on which sail plan you get inmast or regular batten sails.
But the boats are pretty much the same boat except for the galley so see which galley you like the best the 36 has a refrig and different storage setup so look at them both and see which you and admiral prefer.
Nick
I would have absolutely no concerns with the B&R rig in SF Bay. We owned a 356 before upgrading to a 44 a few years ago. We've recently, not by design, found ourselves out in 30+ knot winds with 6 to 8 foot seas. We sailed with inmast main reefed about 25% no jib. No problems at all even after falling off some steep waves. I've come to respect and admire the strength of Hunters with the B&R rig.
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