Here in the Pensacola area we are just now getting back to Bay racing. For the first race of the season in Jan we had three boats on the line. A 17 Mar race had eight boats - so things are looking up. One of the Mar racers was a Hunter 35.5. The PHRF rating from the Gulf Yachting Association provided a rating of 159. There is a HL35 that races on the Bay also and his base rating is 138. Is there that much difference in these two boats ?? Does the H35.5 B&R rig degrade the racing performance of this fine 35 foot hull that much ?? Any H35.5 racers out there with a wing keel ?? I know Alan in Long Island has a special fin keel on his 35.5 and he does well (so he sez) with his B&R rig - or is it a Hunter fractional and not the B&R on that LI 35.5 ?? Alan - nice pictures of the special Mars keel - really looks fast just sitting there. RD
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PHRF Rating
I have the same problem with my 356 The boat has roller furling jib and main, no spinnaker, fixed two bladed prop, and my original rating was 156, however, they just moved me to 145 and I haven't won, placed or showed! I am 4 points away from a J-30 rocket sled and I have to give points to a number of obvious faster boats, like an Islander 36 with a suit of sails that makes North Sails sing. Several times I have come in 15 minutes ahead of my opponents only to loose the race. Can't figure it
I have the same problem with my 356 The boat has roller furling jib and main, no spinnaker, fixed two bladed prop, and my original rating was 156, however, they just moved me to 145 and I haven't won, placed or showed! I am 4 points away from a J-30 rocket sled and I have to give points to a number of obvious faster boats, like an Islander 36 with a suit of sails that makes North Sails sing. Several times I have come in 15 minutes ahead of my opponents only to loose the race. Can't figure it
Your PHRF rating
John, This PHRF rating system can be a bit confusing. I checked the PHRF rating for a Hunter 356 in the Gulf Yachting Association listings. They show one H356 with a rating of 162 based on a "SD" configuraiton which I guess to be shallow draft and a "CC" rating which I think means a crusing configuration. the GYA listings are at www.gya.org if you are interested. You indicated that "they" moved you from 154 to 145 - which is odd as it does not fit the GYA assessment. Could you provide us with the name of the "they" organization that you work with. Is it the same GYA system we are using here in Pensacola ?? One thing I have found that in dealing with the PHRF people one must document every race and every other conditon that applies to your boat as you race it. The fact that GYA has a boat in their listings with a PHRF rating of 162 should be reason enough for your PHRF rate'rs to take a second look at their assessment of your boat. Be glad to help if you have more questions. RD
John, This PHRF rating system can be a bit confusing. I checked the PHRF rating for a Hunter 356 in the Gulf Yachting Association listings. They show one H356 with a rating of 162 based on a "SD" configuraiton which I guess to be shallow draft and a "CC" rating which I think means a crusing configuration. the GYA listings are at www.gya.org if you are interested. You indicated that "they" moved you from 154 to 145 - which is odd as it does not fit the GYA assessment. Could you provide us with the name of the "they" organization that you work with. Is it the same GYA system we are using here in Pensacola ?? One thing I have found that in dealing with the PHRF people one must document every race and every other conditon that applies to your boat as you race it. The fact that GYA has a boat in their listings with a PHRF rating of 162 should be reason enough for your PHRF rate'rs to take a second look at their assessment of your boat. Be glad to help if you have more questions. RD
Capt'n Bob
I don't mind it if you don't believe that I've won as much silver as I say. I really don't have to prove anything. The only place it counts is out on the water, and there they know me. Just as a matter of info, none of the Legend 33.5, 35, 35.5, 37, 37.5 series of Hunters have B&R rigs. That's not say the B&R is slow, it isn't. Winning is not a matter of which boats you are sailing against so much as it is sailing your boat to and above its rating. I race against J27, J29, J30, S2, Tarten Ten and I win much of those races. John, your 356 is a fast boat and should easily be able to handle a J30. I rate a 138 on LI and there are 3 J30's that I race all the time. They never beat me. You need to look at the prep of your boat for racing. Do you have the stock Dacron sails? stock prop? roller furling? anchor on the bow? full water and fuel tanks? How clean and smooth is the bottom? Who is doing the tactics if you are driving? Does the crew constantly watch sail trim controls? There's alot more to racing and doing well than having a fast boat.
I don't mind it if you don't believe that I've won as much silver as I say. I really don't have to prove anything. The only place it counts is out on the water, and there they know me. Just as a matter of info, none of the Legend 33.5, 35, 35.5, 37, 37.5 series of Hunters have B&R rigs. That's not say the B&R is slow, it isn't. Winning is not a matter of which boats you are sailing against so much as it is sailing your boat to and above its rating. I race against J27, J29, J30, S2, Tarten Ten and I win much of those races. John, your 356 is a fast boat and should easily be able to handle a J30. I rate a 138 on LI and there are 3 J30's that I race all the time. They never beat me. You need to look at the prep of your boat for racing. Do you have the stock Dacron sails? stock prop? roller furling? anchor on the bow? full water and fuel tanks? How clean and smooth is the bottom? Who is doing the tactics if you are driving? Does the crew constantly watch sail trim controls? There's alot more to racing and doing well than having a fast boat.
Alan, we ..
seen to have drifted off the subject. Down here in the land of dixie the local race committees give out wooden placques, wine glasses and coffee cups. One of the clubs started giving out gift certificates to West Marine. But that did not last long as the race committee did not think it look good in the after race pictures. Non of the race committee did any racing so they really did not appreciate the extra 40 - 30 - 20 dollars awards that helped out with boat maintenance etc. And now back to the question. Is the HL 35.5 a PHRF 159 boat ?? Alan indicates his HL35.5 rates a 138 with his special keel. With out the keel would it be 21 seconds slower at 159. Are there any other HL35.5's racing from LI with a PHRF of 159 or lower. Alan - what was your PHRF before the addition of the special keel ?? In any case I was just curious as to the performance rating of the HL35.5 as compared to the HL35. The need for race preparation is always evident in the winners circle. But sometimes no amount of preparation or bankroll can over come a PHRF sandbagger who ride a pocket rocket at a high PHRF and seems to win more than their fair share of silver (coffee cups etc.). Race on RD
seen to have drifted off the subject. Down here in the land of dixie the local race committees give out wooden placques, wine glasses and coffee cups. One of the clubs started giving out gift certificates to West Marine. But that did not last long as the race committee did not think it look good in the after race pictures. Non of the race committee did any racing so they really did not appreciate the extra 40 - 30 - 20 dollars awards that helped out with boat maintenance etc. And now back to the question. Is the HL 35.5 a PHRF 159 boat ?? Alan indicates his HL35.5 rates a 138 with his special keel. With out the keel would it be 21 seconds slower at 159. Are there any other HL35.5's racing from LI with a PHRF of 159 or lower. Alan - what was your PHRF before the addition of the special keel ?? In any case I was just curious as to the performance rating of the HL35.5 as compared to the HL35. The need for race preparation is always evident in the winners circle. But sometimes no amount of preparation or bankroll can over come a PHRF sandbagger who ride a pocket rocket at a high PHRF and seems to win more than their fair share of silver (coffee cups etc.). Race on RD
Re: PHRF rating
...locally PHRF LIS HL35-----135 HL35.5---144 H356-----132 ...OF COURSE THIS IS FOR STOCK BOATS If local PHRF committees are handing out giveaways, then just say 'Thanks'. But seriously, these boats can be sailed to a much higher standard than your ratings suggest. It may be that the folks that race these boats just don't know how to race well.
...locally PHRF LIS HL35-----135 HL35.5---144 H356-----132 ...OF COURSE THIS IS FOR STOCK BOATS If local PHRF committees are handing out giveaways, then just say 'Thanks'. But seriously, these boats can be sailed to a much higher standard than your ratings suggest. It may be that the folks that race these boats just don't know how to race well.
Hunter 35.5 and PHRF
Alan, I am looking at purchasing a Hunter 35.5. I have a very good PHRF boat currently, a New York 36 rated 108, but I want a more comfortable cruising boat for the family along with a good PHRF racer. I am looking to gather some information on the racing aspects of the 35.5. I was wondering how you have your Hunter set up for racing? Besides the keel, what other items do believe really benefit the boat (sail type, hardware, etc.)? I was wanting a rolling furling and dutchman system on the boat so it is easy for the family and I to take the boat out for a sail. Do these items kill the performance of the boat in PHRF? Do you have these items on your boat? I am looking at ways to be able to remove the furling/dutchman so that I can use performance sails for bigger regattas. Thank you for any information in advance. Mark
Alan, I am looking at purchasing a Hunter 35.5. I have a very good PHRF boat currently, a New York 36 rated 108, but I want a more comfortable cruising boat for the family along with a good PHRF racer. I am looking to gather some information on the racing aspects of the 35.5. I was wondering how you have your Hunter set up for racing? Besides the keel, what other items do believe really benefit the boat (sail type, hardware, etc.)? I was wanting a rolling furling and dutchman system on the boat so it is easy for the family and I to take the boat out for a sail. Do these items kill the performance of the boat in PHRF? Do you have these items on your boat? I am looking at ways to be able to remove the furling/dutchman so that I can use performance sails for bigger regattas. Thank you for any information in advance. Mark
Good questions, Mark
The 35.5 can be set up for racing and be extremely competative, BUT it must be set up correctly or you will only win in non-competative venues. Your sails, of course, are going to be very important. If you can get a good keel on the boat it will make a huge change in the boat. Dump any weight that you can. A smooth fast bottom is very important. These are the biggies. The rest wont matter a hill of beans unless you get the major stuff done.
The 35.5 can be set up for racing and be extremely competative, BUT it must be set up correctly or you will only win in non-competative venues. Your sails, of course, are going to be very important. If you can get a good keel on the boat it will make a huge change in the boat. Dump any weight that you can. A smooth fast bottom is very important. These are the biggies. The rest wont matter a hill of beans unless you get the major stuff done.
Mark, what is...
a New York 36 and is the 108 a GYA PHRF rating ?? Do you race it spin or non spin ?? What year is it and do you have a picture of the boat ?? RD
a New York 36 and is the 108 a GYA PHRF rating ?? Do you race it spin or non spin ?? What year is it and do you have a picture of the boat ?? RD
Thanks for the Info
Alan, Thank you for the information. Right after I purchase the boat, I am planning and setting money aside just for the fairing of the hull, keel, and rudder. It is a lot of work, but when did this for the NY36, it made a world of difference. I did the NY36's keel with templates from Compukeel. I see that they have templates for the Hunter 35.5. Do you know if anyone has used these templates for the Hunter 35.5 wing keel? The Compukeel templates for the NY36 were great. We can point to windward with the best of them. One of the reasons that I want a Hunter 35.5 is because of the fractional rig. I believe all the 35.5 built had fractional with backstays, correct? The NY36 is a fractional and like I said above, we have been able to point very well. I find a fractional sail plan easier to trim and to balance the helm. Tall masts and big mains work well in our light air. I plan to purchase a new sail inventory when I get the boat. I will run a 155% furling dacron genoa and full batten dacron main with a dutchman for the Wednesday nights and family cruising. For the big regattas, I plan to have a North 3DL set. As I said in my earlier message, I plan to figure how to get the dacron sails on and off without a lot of work. I will take advise if this sounds like a crazy plan. The wheel steering, swim platform, and self-flaking sails of the 35.5 will make my family happy. I will find a way to make the 35.5 competitive in the local PHRF fleet. Like you said earlier, there is a lot more to sailing than a fast boat. I got copies of the North Sail Trim/Tactics seminars for my crew this year. The crew showed great improvement the whole year after going through the course. We captured boat of year for our Wed. night class on the NY36 using a re-conditioned 12 year old dacron main. If they are handing out 159 ratings in GYA (over 138), I will take it. Anyways, thank you again for the information. Cap'n Bob, We have the same PHRF rating as the NY36s in Long Island. It was a one-design boat at one time. I personally want the Chesapeake Bay rating of 114, but we are doing to well to get GYA to raise it. I personnel do not understanding the rating game in GYA and it is a game for sure. I actually want to have a rating under 147 even if I put a lot of the cruising options on the boat. I have been sailing in the same class since I got into GYA, so I would like to keep racing against the boats I know. I believe I could work with base rating that they are giving a Hunter 35.5. A tall mast and big main works well in light air. Our IJPE on the NY36 are 42, 12.6, 46, and 16 for 11,000 of displacement. The Hunter 35.5 is not that far off. I am attaching a picture of the NY36. It is great to hear that sailing is starting back in Pensacola after the tough fall. Looking forward to come over there this summer. I saw a 35.5 was recently sold in the Mobile area. Is that the 35.5 that showed up in the recent races? I cannot find the Hunter 35 your speaking of on the GYA list. Thank you, Mark
Alan, Thank you for the information. Right after I purchase the boat, I am planning and setting money aside just for the fairing of the hull, keel, and rudder. It is a lot of work, but when did this for the NY36, it made a world of difference. I did the NY36's keel with templates from Compukeel. I see that they have templates for the Hunter 35.5. Do you know if anyone has used these templates for the Hunter 35.5 wing keel? The Compukeel templates for the NY36 were great. We can point to windward with the best of them. One of the reasons that I want a Hunter 35.5 is because of the fractional rig. I believe all the 35.5 built had fractional with backstays, correct? The NY36 is a fractional and like I said above, we have been able to point very well. I find a fractional sail plan easier to trim and to balance the helm. Tall masts and big mains work well in our light air. I plan to purchase a new sail inventory when I get the boat. I will run a 155% furling dacron genoa and full batten dacron main with a dutchman for the Wednesday nights and family cruising. For the big regattas, I plan to have a North 3DL set. As I said in my earlier message, I plan to figure how to get the dacron sails on and off without a lot of work. I will take advise if this sounds like a crazy plan. The wheel steering, swim platform, and self-flaking sails of the 35.5 will make my family happy. I will find a way to make the 35.5 competitive in the local PHRF fleet. Like you said earlier, there is a lot more to sailing than a fast boat. I got copies of the North Sail Trim/Tactics seminars for my crew this year. The crew showed great improvement the whole year after going through the course. We captured boat of year for our Wed. night class on the NY36 using a re-conditioned 12 year old dacron main. If they are handing out 159 ratings in GYA (over 138), I will take it. Anyways, thank you again for the information. Cap'n Bob, We have the same PHRF rating as the NY36s in Long Island. It was a one-design boat at one time. I personally want the Chesapeake Bay rating of 114, but we are doing to well to get GYA to raise it. I personnel do not understanding the rating game in GYA and it is a game for sure. I actually want to have a rating under 147 even if I put a lot of the cruising options on the boat. I have been sailing in the same class since I got into GYA, so I would like to keep racing against the boats I know. I believe I could work with base rating that they are giving a Hunter 35.5. A tall mast and big main works well in light air. Our IJPE on the NY36 are 42, 12.6, 46, and 16 for 11,000 of displacement. The Hunter 35.5 is not that far off. I am attaching a picture of the NY36. It is great to hear that sailing is starting back in Pensacola after the tough fall. Looking forward to come over there this summer. I saw a 35.5 was recently sold in the Mobile area. Is that the 35.5 that showed up in the recent races? I cannot find the Hunter 35 your speaking of on the GYA list. Thank you, Mark
Mark
The 35.5 is a great cruising boat for the family. There's lots of room and like you've said, the swim platform makes for easy access. However you are going to be highly disappointed with its pointing ability compared to the NY36. One of the big advantages that I gained with the new keel was that the pointing dramatically improved. Yes, in light air this boat is magic. We have been able to sail past many high performance boats in light air, X99, CC99, J27 and Olson30. The big main and tall mast make for terrific light air sailing
The 35.5 is a great cruising boat for the family. There's lots of room and like you've said, the swim platform makes for easy access. However you are going to be highly disappointed with its pointing ability compared to the NY36. One of the big advantages that I gained with the new keel was that the pointing dramatically improved. Yes, in light air this boat is magic. We have been able to sail past many high performance boats in light air, X99, CC99, J27 and Olson30. The big main and tall mast make for terrific light air sailing
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