Hunter 34 Chainplate Anchor help

[Artey1]

Oh boy... here we go. So I decided to rebed my chainplates. I undid the 4 bolts on deck, started unscrewing and counting turns and lifting some in between to check my progress. Without having done this I didn't really know what I was looking for/at, just going off what I had read. The realization all set in when I went to put the chainplate/tie rod back in and couldn't get the threads restarted to put it in.

Here is my port tie rod in place in the chainplate anchor hole, you can see just forward of the tierod is a bolt that is cut or sheared off?? The anchor is not sitting up against the fiberglass of the liner. It is down about 2-3". Is the bolt that is cut/sheared supposed to have a nut and hold this up?


I felt my hand inside the hole the tierod goes into. I did not feel threads or a nut welded onto the bottom side of the angle iron.




Forward of the cut/sheared bolt on the anchor is a random tapped hole. Can I use this to put the angle iron back in place? Obviously the angle iron is showing its age, is it too far gone that I need to replace?


The BIGGEST question for me - is the nut the tierod is supposed to thread into actually welded on the bottom of this plate or not? The hull construction diagram does not make this clear. I did not hear anything drop when I unscrewed the tierod, I always just thought it was welded on the backside of the hole, but I can push the tierod several inches down through that hole.

I have looked at several threads of how to do a replacement. I would probably opt to go the same way as steve21968 and michaelanthony from this thread Repair Broken Chainplate Tierod

Can anyone help or provide some guidance? I'd love to figure out where the hell the nut went and put it back together without doing surgery. I've owned this boat since October '19 and this is one of the last things of a lot of refit before I can splash her and finally sail her... At least my compression post fix went smoothly, hopefully this can too.

Thanks for looking - Artey

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Artey, appears to me a redo is in order. Hard to tell from the pics, but I'm assuming there is a plate that covers the piece of rusted iron? If it were my boat I would hire a rigger to inspect, make recommendations and follow through with repairs. The rusted angle iron needs to be replaced with new SS and secured in a way to withstand your boat's rigging load, a task for a professional. Just my humble opinion from an untrained eye.

 

[sailor832]

The way the fiberglass is slow close to the rod it maybe holding the rod at a angle and not letting the threads start I would clear that a little bit so you can get the rod straight in without the rod rubbing on the fiberglass

 

[Artey1]

Hi Terry - I would normally agree, but in Oklahoma, riggers aren't really a thing... For some reason land locked sailors are rare haha I have no choice but to do this myself unless I hire someone out of state and then it isn't cost effective to get them here to do the work. I'm definitely scoping out a redo in stainless steel however.

Sailor832 - I may try that, but I was able to push the rod down into the hole several inches which leads me to believe there is no nut welded on the bottom where it inters the plate. Maybe either rusted out or was never welded on to begin with from factory? I don't know what I should be looking for so its hard to say. I do know that the plate is not secured in any fashion. I can tilt it back and forth when sticking a screw driver in the hole as a leverage point.

 

[sailor832]

It states in the manual that it is a 3/4 x 10 x 2" hex nut the 2" would be really oversize for a standard nut. I guess I would try and feel around with a flexible magnet to see if you can find anything. It looks like they put it between two gussets just to make it more fun.

 

[Artey1]

Sailor832, right I've stared at that for probably a couple hours now just thinking to myself how did Hunter ever expect anyone to rebed these chain plates if the nut ISN'T welded like it seems it isn't? I'd really love if anyone who has actually cut into the boat to do one of these repairs might chime in to tell me for certain. Because if it isn't welded, I don't see how you would ever get it restarted. The drawing also shows that there are two carriage bolts from underneath going through the plate on either side to hold it up to the glass - not one mine. So either someone removed them or they weren't installed according to the diagram on hull construction. This one is making me sick...

I'm going to try and get a endoscope in there and find the nut, but it still doesn't seem like I should leave the plate free floating in between the hull and liner?

 

[drew-]

This right here is one of the things that keeps me up at night.
One question I would have is How would the nut have backed off the chain plate if it wasn't welded or otherwise? Wouldnt it just spin when you were trying to remove it? Was it a struggle or super easy?

 

[HMT2]

On the sister boat, Hunter 31 there is for sure supposed to be a nut welded to the back of the iron plate.

 

[sailor832]

I did read a thread on here where they replaced the entire piece of angle iron and they cut a hole through the outside of the hull but I think I would find a different way before I did that. I did find a company that sells 3/4 -10 rivet nuts. Just not sure how thick the angle iron is.

 

[Artey1]

HMT2 - thank you for that. Pretty sure the 31 and 34 are exactly the same in terms of construction technique.

Drew - it's keeping me up too! It was very easy to unscrew and was definitely attached to a nut. It got harder and just kept spinning toward the end until I lifted up on the tierod and spun. That should have been my clue to stop what I was doing. Hindsight right? Damage was already done as I doubt I could have done anything to tighten after it was 10+ turns loose.

Sailor832 - yes very much avoiding cutting from outside. I just finished a beautiful bottom job and my wife might literally kill me if I cut into that. I really like the idea of the rivet but! I didn't even know those were a thing. The plate is I believe around 1/8 or 1/4" thick. I have an H31 member who fixed his that is going to provide some more pics to me so I can learn better what I'm dealing with. Endoscope is also on its way from Amazon. I'm going to inspect the condition from inside the hole or cut an inspection hole to check out the plate and see how rusted it really is before I determine if I even want to reuse it.

If I can't the real question is if I can cut say a 6" inspection hole on the vertical wall of the liner and get the old plate out through that. It's 4" angle iron X 30" long according to some other threads. And how much integrity/strength would I lose with an inspection hole that big? Hard questions.

 

[HMT2]

Artey1,

I see you saw my friend Jerry's thread on his replacement of his chain plates on a Hunter 31. PM him if you have any questions he is super nice and helpful. A thought struck me, it is a bandaid solution for sure. Have you considered getting a new nut and attaching it to the back side of the iron with some 5200 or jb weld and holding in place with preassure or a clamp until dry?

 

[Artey1]

Artey1,

I see you saw my friend Jerry's thread on his replacement of his chain plates on a Hunter 31. PM him if you have any questions he is super nice and helpful. A thought struck me, it is a bandaid solution for sure. Have you considered getting a new nut and attaching it to the back side of the iron with some 5200 or jb weld and holding in place with preassure or a clamp until dry?

Yes Jerry has already PM'd me his phone number and email and I will be calling him today. What an offer! Thats exactly what I want to do or even go with Sailor832's suggestion of using the rivet nut (more precise placement I feel and probably same or better attachment strength) if the plate is still in good condition. From the threads I've read with pictures, the shape of my plate isn't as bad off as others, from what I can see. I'm super hopeful that I can just cut an inspection hole in the correct place, reach my hand up behind the angle iron and secure a new nut or rivet nut in place. The view from the endoscope arriving from Amazon today will hopefully tell me everything I need to know in terms of moving forward if it needs a full anchor replacement, or just figure out what has happened to the nut. My gut tells me if the nut isn't attached anymore due to rusted weld. I need to be planning to replace the anchor.

edit: unfortunately for the riven nut, while I really love that idea, is extremely cost prohibitive to get the correct installation tool. Over $2K for the tool, for that I would just replace the anchors with new stainless.

 

[sailor832]

if it less than 1/4 INCH then the rivet nut would work

 

[kloudie1]

Just a couple of observations: The nut was originally welded to the underside of the angle iron.. the two gussets welded under the angle will limit viewing access with the proctoscope.. The sheared bolt was most likely used to hold the angle and nut in place when the tie rod and anchor were installed at factory. It was then cut so as to not protrude into the cubbyhole. The nut on your angle must not have had a good weld and it failed and let the nut fall.. the plate thickness looks OK, looking through the hole.. If you could somehow tease the nut to horizontal and get a wad of clay (playdough?) under it to hold it horizontal enough for you to start the rod back in... then pull up on the rod and tighten, holding the nut in contact with the underside of the plate.. once there is some tension, the nut won't rotate because it should jam against the roughness of the old weld stuff.. remember to put the sealant under the deck plate while ya still have space. Good luck to ya, Artey.. I hope that works for you.
Note that the vertical of the angle iron is against the inboard side of the beam so an inspection hole where the angle is will be mostly blocked by the angle iron.. Quite a mess..

 

[jssailem]

I guess I would try and feel around with a flexible magnet to see if you can find anything.

Thinking the magnet would be “a dry hole”. (Sorry about the OK reference)

The assumption is the manufacturer used Stainless Steel for the fixture and parts, or at least should have, magnets and stainless have no attraction do each other.

Best bet is eyeballs, light and fingers. If that fails to yield results, I’d get one of those remote camera thingies from Harbor Freight and let it do the looking.

The image from @sailor832 is a great help to tell you what you should be seeing.

If all else fails call and spend some phone time consulting with the SBO Staff. The management once lead the Hunter service shop and may have managed the work on your boat. Give them a call. It couldn’t hurt.

 

[Artey1]

Best bet is eyeballs, light and fingers. If that fails to yield results, I’d get one of those remote camera thingies from Harbor Freight and let it do the looking.

Just got my endoscope yesterday. I'll be seeing what I can do this Friday in terms of camera hole discovery. Being 2 hours away from the boat is making this harder as I'll spend a weekending just "scoping" things out and then can hopefully decide on a formal plan for repair if I'm unable to find the nut and somehow reattach. I'm really hoping that I'll be able to get a tool, my hand, or something behind the angle iron once I find the nut and reattach it. Hopefully this camera pays off!

 

[drew-]

I hate to derail this thread too much but I must ask...
How many people have actually taken apart and re bedded these chain plates? It would seem that it is not all that common and seemingly risky (but maybe not as risky as an unknown issue). Has anyone had any serious corrosion hidden in the underside of the deck where the rod meets the flat portion? I, like probably most here have some but not an alarming amount of rust on the angle iron so I leave it alone. 2 slips down from me a 1984 H34' has scale that can be pulled out with ones fingers(I totally freaked the owner out when I showed him). Does anyone use a rust prevention spray as a precaution?
This makes my want to secure a dynema backup (on both sides) in case of chain plate failure or maybe switch to hull mounted exterior chain plates.
Best of luck to you Artey. We are all rooting for you!
Drew

 

[Artey1]

I hate to derail this thread too much but I must ask...
How many people have actually taken apart and re bedded these chain plates? It would seem that it is not all that common and seemingly risky (but maybe not as risky as an unknown issue).

Thanks Drew. I'm confident it will get solved, its just how much more time, money, and heartache haha. Regarding your question, I'm not sure how many rebed the chainplates, but I can 100% tell you there was almost zero caulking under the deckside portion of the plate, but a healthy amount of 5200 down in the hole. This left almost certainty for water to get into the four screw holes at the deck level attachment and create a probably existing issue worse over time if left unaddressed in terms of side deck core getting wet from leak down. That is the sole reason I went to rebed them in the first place. At least I didn't take my starboard chainplate off at the same time - bright sides right?

 

[sailor832]

make your own puller 3/4 bolt a 1/2 plate with 3/4 hole. a hardened washer and a 3/4 nut. put the insert in put the plate over insert put nut on bolt and then washer then thread into insert through plate have one person with wrench hold the bolt and do not let it turn them someone else tightens the nut until the rivet is set then back off nut and remove bolt and plate. use a 12.8 bolt for good strength

 

[Artey1]

make your own puller 3/4 bolt a 1/2 plate with 3/4 hole. a hardened washer and a 3/4 nut. put the insert in put the plate over insert put nut on bolt and then washer then thread into insert through plate have one person with wrench hold the bolt and do not let it turn them someone else tightens the nut until the rivet is set then back off nut and remove bolt and plate. use a 12.8 bolt for good strength

Yes but this requires access to the bottom and defeats the purpose of the blind rivet. If I can get access to do this I should be able to just put the original but on with my hand I would think. But might have space constraints so I definitely won't rule this out as an option. I talked with Captain Jerry an H31 owner who was able to provide more pictures. I'll update tonight or tomorrow my thoughts on how I will proceed and options based on what I find Friday/Saturday.

I cannot express how grateful I am to all of you helping brainstorm this, especially Sailor832 and Captain Jerry. I could not do it without you. I will continue to update as things progress!