I am intersted in a smaller sailboat that will be used for day or overnight trips on the Chesapeake Bay. It will spend most of its life in a marina but I want to be able to pull it out of the water and store it myself if get to be to much. I want to get as much boat as I can and these two seem to be my best options. Any and all input will be appreciated.
Hunter 25 vs. MacGregor 26 for my first boat?
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O'Day
Are you considering used boats, if so the O'Day 240 circa 1986-88 is a great boat, layout is better than the Hunter or MacGregor, sails great also.
Are you considering used boats, if so the O'Day 240 circa 1986-88 is a great boat, layout is better than the Hunter or MacGregor, sails great also.
They are both good boats
I don't think the Mac your looking at is the motor sailor model. I think that Hunter has more experience than mac making sailboats therefore may be a better boat! Here is what is important, buy the boat you like the most. Look it over carefully. Make sure you like the layout inside and out. Make sure it is in good shape inside and out. Look for blisters, spongy decks, dings and other things. Best of all, make sure you'll enjoy it!
I don't think the Mac your looking at is the motor sailor model. I think that Hunter has more experience than mac making sailboats therefore may be a better boat! Here is what is important, buy the boat you like the most. Look it over carefully. Make sure you like the layout inside and out. Make sure it is in good shape inside and out. Look for blisters, spongy decks, dings and other things. Best of all, make sure you'll enjoy it!
GO to the show!
You are not that far from annapolis, and the show is in October. You can walk on all the boats, and see what they are like. The 25 in hunter and catalina are both good boats, I prefer the Hunter, and feel it has more room down below. That being said, once you have the boat, you may find you spend much more time on it. SWMBO and I have a H27, and spend almost every weekend on it. You may want to see if you can afford the 2 feet. OR you may want to look at used boats. I know there have been some receint boats go up for sail in the hunter group up there. Hunter Sailing Association. I know of one down here that is in good shape an a great value. Contact me by e-mail and I will provide details to HSA-1 and the other boat as I don't want this to seem commercial.
You are not that far from annapolis, and the show is in October. You can walk on all the boats, and see what they are like. The 25 in hunter and catalina are both good boats, I prefer the Hunter, and feel it has more room down below. That being said, once you have the boat, you may find you spend much more time on it. SWMBO and I have a H27, and spend almost every weekend on it. You may want to see if you can afford the 2 feet. OR you may want to look at used boats. I know there have been some receint boats go up for sail in the hunter group up there. Hunter Sailing Association. I know of one down here that is in good shape an a great value. Contact me by e-mail and I will provide details to HSA-1 and the other boat as I don't want this to seem commercial.
Used or new
Used boats are the way to go. The depreciation, the current boating market and the winter season will definately favor the buyer. New boats: Hunter's bang/buck ratio can't be denied. Catalina makes a good boat too. I must confess that I see Mcgreggor as light duty. This is my impression from what I have seen at shows. I have no experiance using them at all. Good luck and go sailing'
Used boats are the way to go. The depreciation, the current boating market and the winter season will definately favor the buyer. New boats: Hunter's bang/buck ratio can't be denied. Catalina makes a good boat too. I must confess that I see Mcgreggor as light duty. This is my impression from what I have seen at shows. I have no experiance using them at all. Good luck and go sailing'
My thoughts
So I transisitioned from power to sail. I bought a Mac 26X (better than the new 26M in my opinion) It was a great transisition boat we had it in a marina and then stored it on it's trailer during the winter. Very inexpensive way to go. Then I wanted a bigger "real" sail boat and bought a Hunter 31. The boat sails much better it much larger, more comfortable, and much more expensive. So you have to buy the boat that suits your needs and wants and budget. I am glad I started on the Mac and I am very glad I got the H31. Keith
So I transisitioned from power to sail. I bought a Mac 26X (better than the new 26M in my opinion) It was a great transisition boat we had it in a marina and then stored it on it's trailer during the winter. Very inexpensive way to go. Then I wanted a bigger "real" sail boat and bought a Hunter 31. The boat sails much better it much larger, more comfortable, and much more expensive. So you have to buy the boat that suits your needs and wants and budget. I am glad I started on the Mac and I am very glad I got the H31. Keith
Hunter 25
Of these two boats you mention, I think the Hunter 25 is going to satisfy you more if you want a sailboat. It has a fixed ballasted keel, which in my opinion, is key. The MacGregor uses water ballast in the bottom of the hull together with a swing keel if I remember correctly. If you really are more interested in getting places fast, occasionally towing the kids around on an inner tube, and sometimes sailing for the fun of it, then the MacGregor might be for you. Just understand it is an all purpose boat that might not be the best choice if what you really want is a sailboat.
Of these two boats you mention, I think the Hunter 25 is going to satisfy you more if you want a sailboat. It has a fixed ballasted keel, which in my opinion, is key. The MacGregor uses water ballast in the bottom of the hull together with a swing keel if I remember correctly. If you really are more interested in getting places fast, occasionally towing the kids around on an inner tube, and sometimes sailing for the fun of it, then the MacGregor might be for you. Just understand it is an all purpose boat that might not be the best choice if what you really want is a sailboat.
If you have to make a choice between
these two, you haven't looked hard enough. The 26x is perhaps the lamest sailboat on the market. I hesitate to call it a sailboat. If you are intested in sailing, don't buy this abomination. That said, an older Mac 26 is a pretty cool boat. Take a look at catalina... the 250 is an excellent weekender, a real sailboat. An even better choice is an older catalina or hunter. The Catalina 25 is a wonderful trailerable pocket cruiser with a very active owner's association. Besides saving money on the initial purchase, the used boat will often have equipment included that you'd have to purchase with a new boat.
these two, you haven't looked hard enough. The 26x is perhaps the lamest sailboat on the market. I hesitate to call it a sailboat. If you are intested in sailing, don't buy this abomination. That said, an older Mac 26 is a pretty cool boat. Take a look at catalina... the 250 is an excellent weekender, a real sailboat. An even better choice is an older catalina or hunter. The Catalina 25 is a wonderful trailerable pocket cruiser with a very active owner's association. Besides saving money on the initial purchase, the used boat will often have equipment included that you'd have to purchase with a new boat.
Sailed both
I have a friend that has a mac 26 and I'll agree with others, it's not much of a sailboat. performance undersail is poor. feels more like sitting in a power boat with a small sail. Below desk it is little more than a tent. I started with a catalina 22 and when I got the bug, I looked at the 25 - 27 size too. For teh money, I quickly came to teh opinion that a used 29.5 was teh way to go. I wasn't ready to make a bigger plunge and teh 29.5 offered everything I wanted. Now the 29.5 is up for sale on this site as I'm moving up to a 356. If interested, feel free to drop me a email and I'll tell you more about the 29.5 or check it out here......it is located in Havre de Grace.
I have a friend that has a mac 26 and I'll agree with others, it's not much of a sailboat. performance undersail is poor. feels more like sitting in a power boat with a small sail. Below desk it is little more than a tent. I started with a catalina 22 and when I got the bug, I looked at the 25 - 27 size too. For teh money, I quickly came to teh opinion that a used 29.5 was teh way to go. I wasn't ready to make a bigger plunge and teh 29.5 offered everything I wanted. Now the 29.5 is up for sale on this site as I'm moving up to a 356. If interested, feel free to drop me a email and I'll tell you more about the 29.5 or check it out here......it is located in Havre de Grace.
Maybe I'm a Purist, But...
I've got a Mac 25 now and I've thought of a Mac 26 in the future, but I'm thinking I might be too much of a purist for that. I don't really get the whole "powersailor" thing. It never ceases to amuse me when I read posts on the Mac boards about people wanting to put 140 HP OB's on their sail boat. A hunter would likely have better all-around stability, and I hear complaints from M26 owners that unless you are sailing at a pretty good clip that the boat tends to side slip a lot. Also, I'd sure hate to figure out that I'd forgotten to fill the ballast tank when I'm on a steep heel! I do like the flexibility of a swing keel so if I want to go to another lake or go to the coast I can tow it without a high wind profile, and it's pretty helpful if it gets a little shallow in unfamiliar waters! There are plenty of trailerable sailboats other than the Mac 26.
I've got a Mac 25 now and I've thought of a Mac 26 in the future, but I'm thinking I might be too much of a purist for that. I don't really get the whole "powersailor" thing. It never ceases to amuse me when I read posts on the Mac boards about people wanting to put 140 HP OB's on their sail boat. A hunter would likely have better all-around stability, and I hear complaints from M26 owners that unless you are sailing at a pretty good clip that the boat tends to side slip a lot. Also, I'd sure hate to figure out that I'd forgotten to fill the ballast tank when I'm on a steep heel! I do like the flexibility of a swing keel so if I want to go to another lake or go to the coast I can tow it without a high wind profile, and it's pretty helpful if it gets a little shallow in unfamiliar waters! There are plenty of trailerable sailboats other than the Mac 26.
I have an older (94) mac 26s
and have sailed it ALL OVER the south east. Though it has thinner hulls and the hardware seems a bit skimpy relative to other boats I've seen (hunter, catalina, cal)for the price and what I use it for I am extremely happy with the boat. I do alot of local lake sailing which the Mac is great for. I also go to charleston and the pensacola area alot. I don't plan on any blue water sailing anytime soon...so the mac suits my purposes. It sails great, and is one of the fastest monohulls out there for it's size. I have passed and dropped much heavier and expensive boats. Because of it's light weight I spend much less on gas trailering, which I do alot of. In the past two years I've been to choctahatchee bay, pensacola [3 x's], crooked island and port st. joe, charleston [9 x's], and most of the lakes in the south east. The exploratory (lake and coastal!) aspects of my mac have been huge to me. People say it is a great lake boat (which it is!) in a deragatory manner.....but many of them sail in the same harbor month after month, never going farther off the coast than where I am with my Mac. One day I want to upgrade to a higher performance boat...better built with more sail controls; but for the money, cheap "trailerability", and [relatively]lots of space below (which can easily be fixed up and made less "tent like"), not to mention pretty damn good boat speed for it's size, it is a great boat!
and have sailed it ALL OVER the south east. Though it has thinner hulls and the hardware seems a bit skimpy relative to other boats I've seen (hunter, catalina, cal)for the price and what I use it for I am extremely happy with the boat. I do alot of local lake sailing which the Mac is great for. I also go to charleston and the pensacola area alot. I don't plan on any blue water sailing anytime soon...so the mac suits my purposes. It sails great, and is one of the fastest monohulls out there for it's size. I have passed and dropped much heavier and expensive boats. Because of it's light weight I spend much less on gas trailering, which I do alot of. In the past two years I've been to choctahatchee bay, pensacola [3 x's], crooked island and port st. joe, charleston [9 x's], and most of the lakes in the south east. The exploratory (lake and coastal!) aspects of my mac have been huge to me. People say it is a great lake boat (which it is!) in a deragatory manner.....but many of them sail in the same harbor month after month, never going farther off the coast than where I am with my Mac. One day I want to upgrade to a higher performance boat...better built with more sail controls; but for the money, cheap "trailerability", and [relatively]lots of space below (which can easily be fixed up and made less "tent like"), not to mention pretty damn good boat speed for it's size, it is a great boat!
choices
From the tone of your initial inquiry, I suspect you are talking about purchasing a used boat. In the 25 - 26 foot range there are a number of good trailerable boats out there, and many of those from the late 70s and 80s are still in good shape if they have been well maintained. Hunter, Catalina, O'Day, Ericson, MacGregor, and a few others all offer what you are looking for. Practical Sailor published a good reference book, "Practical Boat Buying", several years ago that assesses several of these boats. A centerboarder with built in ballast, rather than a swing keel (heavy keel means potential problems with the pin and ultimate stability if the keel is up) will allow you to self launch and recover from your trailer. You probably don't want a fixed keel boat that requires deeper launching. Instead of fixing your sights on one brand, look around for a decent deal. The MacGregors seem to be more lightly and cheaply built than the others named, but their owners seem to like them (see Richard's comments here). Condition of sails is a biggie that many first time buyers don't consider - have an experienced sailor evaluate the sails on any boat you are considering - blown out sails will mean you'll be spending upwards of $2k above the purchase price. Also, check to see that it can be towed by your vehicle, or that you have access to an appropriate truck, etc. Wander through a couple of marinas on weekends and talk to owners - most of them are glad to share their likes/dislikes about their own boats as well as others, and they might even know of a deal or two. As they say, don't fall in love with any particular boat until after the sale - there are lots out there in this size and if you are willing to wait a little while, you'll find a number of good deals.
From the tone of your initial inquiry, I suspect you are talking about purchasing a used boat. In the 25 - 26 foot range there are a number of good trailerable boats out there, and many of those from the late 70s and 80s are still in good shape if they have been well maintained. Hunter, Catalina, O'Day, Ericson, MacGregor, and a few others all offer what you are looking for. Practical Sailor published a good reference book, "Practical Boat Buying", several years ago that assesses several of these boats. A centerboarder with built in ballast, rather than a swing keel (heavy keel means potential problems with the pin and ultimate stability if the keel is up) will allow you to self launch and recover from your trailer. You probably don't want a fixed keel boat that requires deeper launching. Instead of fixing your sights on one brand, look around for a decent deal. The MacGregors seem to be more lightly and cheaply built than the others named, but their owners seem to like them (see Richard's comments here). Condition of sails is a biggie that many first time buyers don't consider - have an experienced sailor evaluate the sails on any boat you are considering - blown out sails will mean you'll be spending upwards of $2k above the purchase price. Also, check to see that it can be towed by your vehicle, or that you have access to an appropriate truck, etc. Wander through a couple of marinas on weekends and talk to owners - most of them are glad to share their likes/dislikes about their own boats as well as others, and they might even know of a deal or two. As they say, don't fall in love with any particular boat until after the sale - there are lots out there in this size and if you are willing to wait a little while, you'll find a number of good deals.
Mac 26S
I owned a Mac 26S up until last year. It was a nice boat, but it had very little headroom, and no galley space to do any kind of cooking. The biggest atribute was the aft berth. It was huge!!! I'm 6'1" and 300# and I could sleep comfortably with my wife and the dog. The poptop offers little extra room, but is some relief to the cramped cabin. The Mac has lots of storage for a 26ft boat.(I could fit in the aft lazarette!) As for the sailing quality, it's ok. A buddy of mine has a Catalina 25 and it is much more comfortable than my Mac was, and sails better. I've never been on a Hunter 25, but I own a 1883 Hunter 30 and wouldn't ever go back to a Mac.
I owned a Mac 26S up until last year. It was a nice boat, but it had very little headroom, and no galley space to do any kind of cooking. The biggest atribute was the aft berth. It was huge!!! I'm 6'1" and 300# and I could sleep comfortably with my wife and the dog. The poptop offers little extra room, but is some relief to the cramped cabin. The Mac has lots of storage for a 26ft boat.(I could fit in the aft lazarette!) As for the sailing quality, it's ok. A buddy of mine has a Catalina 25 and it is much more comfortable than my Mac was, and sails better. I've never been on a Hunter 25, but I own a 1883 Hunter 30 and wouldn't ever go back to a Mac.
Cutting through the crap
MacGregors are crap. Pure and simple. No knowledgeable sailor would own one. Compare rigging to a real 25 ft sailboat and it will be obvious. Push on the flanks of the hull and it will be obvious. Look at the fiberglass work and it will be obvious. Buy a real boat. I would not own either the Hunter or the Mac. I am not a Hunter hater except when it comes to their 25. The Catalina or O'Day are much better 25s and are actually real sailboats, certainly not no blue water cruisers, but at least they are sailboats.
MacGregors are crap. Pure and simple. No knowledgeable sailor would own one. Compare rigging to a real 25 ft sailboat and it will be obvious. Push on the flanks of the hull and it will be obvious. Look at the fiberglass work and it will be obvious. Buy a real boat. I would not own either the Hunter or the Mac. I am not a Hunter hater except when it comes to their 25. The Catalina or O'Day are much better 25s and are actually real sailboats, certainly not no blue water cruisers, but at least they are sailboats.
Re-consider "trailerable" ...
The last sailboat that I had that was trailerable was a Hobie 16. If you have to step the mast and set up the rigging every time you sail, you may not do it very often and it may be even be more difficult to find anybody else who wants to do it at all. If it is a cost factor, it may be a big waste of money, if the boat sits in your yard and rarely gets used. Many people go this route just to find out they love sailing, but hate trailering, making it necessary to trade up almost immediately. Don't make this a necessary step if you don't have to. I notice that you are posting from Baltimore. I assume that finding a trailerable boat is absolutely unnecessary and probably very undesireable since there are so many mooring opportunities and you will be sailing in a body of water where a trailerable boat is insufficient for cruising (not for daysailing, though). I will respectively disagree that Macs are a faster boat for sheltered waters. Maybe they are in less than 5 knot wind. Many Macs on our lake move along fine when the wind is almost non-existent, only to be knocked down and slipping sideways as soon as the wind is over 10 knots. I would say that our fixed keel shoal draft 27' boat sails faster in light winds and makes a Mac look absolutely silly in anything over 10. You said that you want to keep it at a marina and use it for overnights. If you start out with a trailerable boat, I predict you will be dissatisfied VERY soon.
The last sailboat that I had that was trailerable was a Hobie 16. If you have to step the mast and set up the rigging every time you sail, you may not do it very often and it may be even be more difficult to find anybody else who wants to do it at all. If it is a cost factor, it may be a big waste of money, if the boat sits in your yard and rarely gets used. Many people go this route just to find out they love sailing, but hate trailering, making it necessary to trade up almost immediately. Don't make this a necessary step if you don't have to. I notice that you are posting from Baltimore. I assume that finding a trailerable boat is absolutely unnecessary and probably very undesireable since there are so many mooring opportunities and you will be sailing in a body of water where a trailerable boat is insufficient for cruising (not for daysailing, though). I will respectively disagree that Macs are a faster boat for sheltered waters. Maybe they are in less than 5 knot wind. Many Macs on our lake move along fine when the wind is almost non-existent, only to be knocked down and slipping sideways as soon as the wind is over 10 knots. I would say that our fixed keel shoal draft 27' boat sails faster in light winds and makes a Mac look absolutely silly in anything over 10. You said that you want to keep it at a marina and use it for overnights. If you start out with a trailerable boat, I predict you will be dissatisfied VERY soon.
I agree with Scott
I had a H22 for two years. The first year I dry sailed it off of a trailer. You loose between 30 minutes to an hour on the way in and another amount of time on the way out because of stepping the mast. It is a pain! The second season with my H22 I had it in a slip. That was the end of the trailer sailing. I did pull the boat for the winter and the trailer is great for saving hull out fees. It does create other problems (such as painting where the bunks are and trailer maintenance). This year I sold the H22 and bought a Catalina 30. I now have tons more room and I have a lot nicer facilites. I definately would advise you to stay away from a trailerable boat unless you are going to sail on lakes etc. If you are going to sail the Chesapeake Bay go for a bigger, heavier boat. The Bay is a big place for a small boat!
I had a H22 for two years. The first year I dry sailed it off of a trailer. You loose between 30 minutes to an hour on the way in and another amount of time on the way out because of stepping the mast. It is a pain! The second season with my H22 I had it in a slip. That was the end of the trailer sailing. I did pull the boat for the winter and the trailer is great for saving hull out fees. It does create other problems (such as painting where the bunks are and trailer maintenance). This year I sold the H22 and bought a Catalina 30. I now have tons more room and I have a lot nicer facilites. I definately would advise you to stay away from a trailerable boat unless you are going to sail on lakes etc. If you are going to sail the Chesapeake Bay go for a bigger, heavier boat. The Bay is a big place for a small boat!
Bad obsession makes sense
If you can afford it go for a catalina 27 or an O"day 27 you really will be much happier in an area like you describe. 25 footers are a lot like camping, while the extra 2 feet suddenly puts you into standing headroom and real galleys and heads. You never hear someone say, "Gosh I wish I had bought that smaller boat instead of the one I bought."
If you can afford it go for a catalina 27 or an O"day 27 you really will be much happier in an area like you describe. 25 footers are a lot like camping, while the extra 2 feet suddenly puts you into standing headroom and real galleys and heads. You never hear someone say, "Gosh I wish I had bought that smaller boat instead of the one I bought."
First Boat
My first boat 25 years ago was a used 1979 Shoal Draft Hunter 25 purchased for around 10K and traded five years later for around 9.5 on a new 28.5 which I've stayed with for 20 years. I suppose the 25 could have been a trailerable boat, but probably would have required a Suburban to tow it. I opted for slip fees and have done so ever since. My two young sons started a great sailing lifestyle on that little boat, and yes, it was a lot like camping as we went all over the Chesapeake bay from the Sasafrass river to the Solomons and everywhere in between. Go back to the title -- FIRST BOAT -- you have to start somewhere just to see what works for you. Start used with a level of investment in time and dollars that suits you today. You can always move up or sell out.
My first boat 25 years ago was a used 1979 Shoal Draft Hunter 25 purchased for around 10K and traded five years later for around 9.5 on a new 28.5 which I've stayed with for 20 years. I suppose the 25 could have been a trailerable boat, but probably would have required a Suburban to tow it. I opted for slip fees and have done so ever since. My two young sons started a great sailing lifestyle on that little boat, and yes, it was a lot like camping as we went all over the Chesapeake bay from the Sasafrass river to the Solomons and everywhere in between. Go back to the title -- FIRST BOAT -- you have to start somewhere just to see what works for you. Start used with a level of investment in time and dollars that suits you today. You can always move up or sell out.
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