Hunter 22 keel repair

[KristinKaye]

I dropped the keel out of our H22 as it needs another new bushing. Except this time I'm not going to put in a new bushing. I decided the main problem is that little 1/2" pin has too much load on it and not enough bearing area. I'm going to bore the old bushing to 3/4", drill the brackets and put a new 316 stainless 3/4" pin in it.

The other problem is that the keel has been used for a mechanical depth sounder too many times. Coming into a shallow anchorage in a bay or cove, invariably the depth sounder will be showing 6 feet and the keel still hits a rock or something with a big thud. That's when you know that you should probably swing the keel up, drop anchor right there and not go in any closer. If the sound of the keel contact is sort of sandpaper like, then she's sand bottom and you can swing it up and glide in right up to shore. If it's smooth and just sort of drags, then its muck bottom and probably anchor out a bit so as not to foul the bottom of the boat.

Love my swing keel

But this is what it does to it over time on the rocks and gravel bottom:

Since using the centerboard for mechanical depth sounding is probably not going to stop any time soon with the type of anchorages we go into, I decided to fix this too. I'll fix the separation and glass it. But then I'm going to form up a 24" long leading edge wear plate from 050 316 stainless and screw it to the tip of the keel leading edge.

 

[inarathree]

When I replaced my keel, I had a new bronze bushing and ss pin made locally, then sent them to Foss Foam (OEM for the keel) which they used when manufactured the keel. The pin was 1/2" and the bushing manufactured for it. I forget what the o.d of the bushing was. There is no way it will ever wear out now.

I also had two new ss brackets manufactured locally, as one was lost by the po.

 

[KristinKaye]

I decided to stick with plastic and go with the oversized pin on this round. The UHMW poly bushing that I made several years ago has stood up fairly well, but it's not as tight as new anymore. Even though 316 stainless and bronze are fairly close on the noble scale, the bonding system in the boat grounds at the starboard keel bracket. I hesitate to use dissimilar metals at the grounding point for the bonding system.

 

[Hugh Straub]

My boat yard found a cutlass bearing which fit the centerboard axle hole in the outer diameter and the pivot pin on the inner diameter. Made for a slick fix.

Brgds

Hugh

 

[SeaTR]

KristinKaye,
I've repaired and then replaced the swing keel on my 1981 H22. Your idea of drilling out the brackets for the pivot pin to 3/4" versus the OEM 1/2" sounds interesting, as long as the stresses on the brackets don't exceed the wider boring to 3/4". Now I haven't a clue as to how to determine the limits involved. Maybe someone else on the site might ?

Anywho, I started a thread sometime back that had a lot of discussion on the swing keel (and the rudder) and there might be some information of interest for you. I reinstalled with a new 1/2" SS pin and new nylon bushing, using the existing brackets. You can find the thread in this forum at:

Need Rudder and swing keel dimensions(

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[KristinKaye]

KristinKaye,
Your idea of drilling out the brackets for the pivot pin to 3/4" versus the OEM 1/2" sounds interesting, as long as the stresses on the brackets don't exceed the wider boring to 3/4". Now I haven't a clue as to how to determine the limits involved. Maybe someone else on the site might ?

Well, that would probably be me. Bachelor of Mechanical Engineering, UofM 1982.

It will be fine. The pin bore is right at the angle on the brackets. 3/4" is about as large as you could go because the hole is so close to the angle that you would have to use a vertical mill and mill the hole to 1" to get it to fit for a larger pin. As it is, the brackets can simply be drilled with a 3/4" drill on the drill press with no problem.

The design there is somewhat inadequate IMO. 1/2" doesn't give much bearing surface for a 65lb keel, and then add the dynamic loads with the boat under sail. 3/4" vs 1/2" increases the available bearing area by 50%. That makes a huge difference for any bearing because it reduces the compression loads on the materials by that same amount. It's no wonder there's so many people repairing that bushing all the time.

 

[KristinKaye]

Need Rudder and swing keel dimensions(

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SeaTR - read your thread on the keel in your project boat. Very good - thanks for pointing that one out. You definitely had some adventures with your project boat, including losing the keel. Sounds like you're enjoying every second of it.

Note for other folks trying to seal up those keel bolts - when I put the first bushing in I bedded the brackets and sealed the bolts with silicon sealant that I got from a Carquest store called The Right Stuff. It's a severe duty silicon-based sealant that's black in color, totally impervious to water, chemicals (including battery acid), gasoline, diesel fuel or oil, and reinforced with some sort of fibrous material. After removing the bolts here the other day I had a HELL of a time getting the brackets off the hull with that stuff in there. It took a half hour working on each one with my Snap-On prybars to get them to come loose because the stuff will stretch a bit but it won't let go. I'm pretty sure the boat could've been sailed without the bolts even in the brackets and the keel would not come off. Never had a single drop of water leak in around the plates or bolts with that stuff in there in 8 years.

 

[SeaTR]

..... Sounds like you're enjoying every second of it.

Note for other folks trying to seal up those keel bolts - when I put the first bushing in I bedded the brackets and sealed the bolts with silicon sealant that I got from a Carquest store called The Right Stuff. .... It took a half hour working on each one with my Snap-On prybars to get them to come loose because the stuff will stretch a bit but it won't let go. ..... Never had a single drop of water leak in around the plates or bolts with that stuff in there in 8 years.

KristinKaye,
Yes, I'm having a 'great' time with my salvage boat, learning a lot along the way, AND I'm sailing it !!

I guess your sealant is one of those 'advantages and disadvantages' story... "The Right Stuff" apparently is the right stuff for sealing and yet the wrong stuff when removing said brackets. Well, I'm open to try anything that works well...'might' be something to consider.

Glad that my thread helped you to some degree.

 

[KristinKaye]

"The Right Stuff" is made by Permatex and there's all sorts of parts outlets that handle it. Not sure if it's OK to post links on the forum but I'll try it in the hopes other folks trying to seal a leak on their boat might find it useful - this is the product:
http://www.permatex.com/products-2/...ermatex--the-right-stuff--gasket-maker-detail

I used it to bed everything on my recent complete refurbish of our 81 H22. Chainplates, mast step, blocks, fairleads, cleats, winches, rope clutch, you name it. If you want to insure no leaks and that the mating parts absolutely won't move on their mounting it's the "right stuff". If you intend on taking your assembly apart at some point in the future it might end up being the "wrong stuff". Before you use it I would suggest glueing a couple flat surfaces together with it and let it fully cure for a couple days. Then judge the difficulty in getting the two pieces apart again as to whether or not you want to use it on an assembly that might require removal or service at some point.

 

[jassprag]

I drilled the mounting bracket bolts out to 5/16 and used 5/16 stainless steel bolts and 5200 to mount the keel brackets. 3/4 inch pin sounds interesting. I also bored the rudder mounting bolt to 1/2 inch from 3/8. Holes were egg shaped and going over sized made it an easy fix.

 

[Ray Bowles]

Kristin, Why not epoxy or 4200 the leading edge plate rather than screw. No hole, no water leak.
Ray

 

[SeaTR]

jassprag,
Maybe I'm misreading your post, but what's being referred to here are the swing keel PIVOT PIN holes in the brackets, not the mounting bolts for the brackets that hold the pivot pin. (see attached pix)

 

[SeaTR]

Ray,
I've used both the 3M 4200 and 5200 sealing methods. They do well, but is a pain in the a@# to clean up when it comes time for maintenance. I presently use neoprene conical washers and SS washers compressing with 1/4 x 20s to get a good seal.

Epoxy: I'd not be inclined to use it as access for maintenance would be difficult. I'm not sure what you mean by sealing "the leading edge" and that resulting in "no screw & no hole" for leakage ? ?

 

[KristinKaye]

I think what Ray is talking about is no chance for water intrusion into the core of the centerboard. I think if the plate is bedded properly and the screws sealed that won't be an issue. But using epoxy to put the wear plate on probably makes more sense, and less work. Saves forming countersunk screw holes in the plate. I'm not sure yet how far along the edges of the centerboard I'm going to extend the wear plate. Probably about 2" on each side. I intended on recessing the leading edge of the board after I repair the separation, and fitting the wear plate so it's flush. But it wouldn't make much difference if the plate wasn't flush either.

I got a partial sheet of .050 316 around here someplace. Haven't found it yet. It probably ended up leaning against the shop wall behind about 7,000 lbs of other steel plate.

 

[KristinKaye]

Turns out 3/4" is a problem with my brackets. The one bracket I had measured earlier is no problem. But the other one is different. These brackets are NOT the same size and shape, the pin holes are not drilled in the same spot on both, and the mounting bolt holes are not drilled in the same location on both. In other words they are not precision made. And they only fit left and right. Interchanging them is impossible without re-drilling the hull.

These angles are cold rolled and CR steel has a fillet on the inside of the angle. That fillet helps prevent concentrated stresses at the corner so the piece doesn't crack. Now, chances are the cross section of the material is more than adequate and this would never be a problem. But without an FEA and knowing the exact loads on the piece, that cannot be assumed. So from an engineering standpoint, you always leave a fillet intact.

At 3/4" the pin hole would be well into the fillet on the one bracket. 5/8" is fine and just at the outside of the fillet. Could go to 3/4" or even 1" if you move the center of the hole up away from the mounting surface. But that can't be done on a drill press. It would require a vertical mill. Since my bushing cleans up nicely at .625" bore, I'm going with a 5/8" pin. If it took more overbore to clean the bushing up I'd set up my old 1947 model Bridgeport and mill the brackets for the larger pin

 

[newsailor130]

When I rebuilt I had a new stainless steel pin made with marine grade stainless dowel. It had been totally rotted. I made a new plastic thingie that goes through the board out of a dowel of nylon or something like that, cut to size and then drilled a hole in the center. Worked fine. I marine epoxied the foam areas that had deteriorated. I was able to source a new pully for the downhaul. that was hard to find, if you need the source, let me know, can probably find it. And of course, you have to replace the downhaul while you are at it. I sealed all around the brackets and screws with regular old marine grade silicone. Do not use 5200 or other permanent adhesive or you will never get it off again. I am dry as a bone inside. No leaks. I reused the same nylon washers. But i also cut a couple of pieces of from a sheet of rubber and put that on there with the washers to help pad the centerboard from wiggling side to side. (It makes a lot of noise if you are trying to sleep. I also figured if it is noise when you are sleeping, you can raise it and run a line under the boat from winch to winch to hold the board still at night.)

 

[sjkisabeth]

I have Attached 3 photos I take these are the lighting grounding plate bolts. They are wet and very loose bolts spin unable to tighten until boat is out of water. I have a very slow leak this could be it but I also hear about leaking around swing keel bolt. Do I really need to cut out center board trunk to get to that pin on 81 hunter 22? Are there photos of this process that someone has done? Marina’s in area are hesitant to do the job.
Thanks
Scott