How to handle a moron

[Jon Bastien]

legal issues...

I hate to bring this up, but someone in this thread suggested trying to sue the wake producer in maritime court. Then there was a post immediately after that which essentially said, "If the wake is in the public domain, you have to deal with it- it's not the wake moron's fault, so quit whining." Um, If I'm not mistaken, the operator of a vessel is responsible for any damage caused by negligent operation, and that this INCLUDES damage caused by the wake of the vessel in question. What this means is, the wake moron would LOSE a court battle for damages to other vessels or property caused by his wake. This isn't a new issue, and has been through the courts many times... Just type "wake damage" into your favorite search engine for more details. If the damage is considerable, I would not hesitate to take the offender into court.--Jon BastienH25 'Adagio'

 

[Tom]

Wakes Kill !!! --Real headline and no Peg these

are not from sailboater but motorboaters. Yes both sailboaters and motorboaters have idiots, but the fact remains that motorboaters have a much more dangerous machine (relatively) that can and will cause harm to other people, boaters and the environment.I just found this at boatus.com (take a look here http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m0BQK/5_4/61555430/p1/article.jhtml (link is below)Here is an excerpt "Each year there are scores of boating accidents involving swampings and capsizings and, as the cases above clearly show, many times a wake is so destructive a boater or fisherman is injured, or worse, drowns. As more boats share the waterways, frustrations with wake damage can go beyond impolite hand gestures to liability claims for damages or even criminal charges of vessel manslaughter.One boat owner was so angry at being knocked about at his marina by the wake of a speeding boat in a "no wake" zone, he got in his car, drove to the drawbridge further down the river and parked in the middle of the span. He refused to move until the startled bridge tender agreed to call the marine police to cite the speeding boater."And here is a very good link to a guide for boaters on how to keep wakes down to a minimum. http://www.boatwashington.org/watching_your_wake.htmTHIS SHOULD BE REQUIRED KNOWLEDGE FOR ALL MOTORBOATERS OUT ON THE WATER. Too bad there are still many states not requiring education and many classes are woefully inadequate in teaching about how your actions on the water affect people around you........

 

[Peggie Hall/Head Mistress]

You are correct, Jon...

The operator of a vessel is legally and financially liable for any damage or injury caused by his wake, no matter where it happens. However, you don't sue...you make a note (better yet, grab a camera if possible) of the boat name, make and approx. size...registration numbers, if possible, date, time and exact location, along with a complete description of circumstances and the extent of the injuries or damage...and you report it to the local authorities. They will find the owner and serve him with the maritime equivilant of a traffic ticket, for which he'll have to appear in court or he can be arrested and hauled off ot the pokey...and so will you, along with proof of your loss, to collect any damages.

 

[Steve Dion]

Tom, you cannot legislate common sense!

You are absolutely correct. But, they have driving tests for automobile drivers and look at the number of accidents we have daily. People are killed from being inattentive and careless.We can educate them, but we cannot make them do ANYTHING that they have learned. We could not possibly have enough law enforcment people on the water to prevent the type of accidents that we see every year.IF, just if people would take a look around and realize what they are doing and pay attention the water ways would be much safer.

 

[Tom]

Steve you are right. I am really not for any extra

legislation "requiring" anything. I also don't want to be told I have to *always* have all children wear PFD's. I think I can evaluate when they are required on my 36' sailboat. But think about this. In NJ tidal water boaters (i.e. coast and ocean) are not required to have any knowledge to operate a boat (just PWC). Just pay for that registration and go......Is that right? Hmmm......I don't know?  But possibly through peer pressure on the water *all* boaters can make these boorish boaters feel ostracized and maybe change their ways....we all have to let them know they are @#%!*&# and tell them to what they should be doing.

 

[Peggie Hall/Head Mistress]

"Scores" of accidents in a boating population of

10 million isn't very many. Boat related fatalities (except for those involving PWCs) have steadily dropped since the mid-80s.Every time we go out, there are literally hundreds of boats--power and sail--out there with us on any given body of water. We don't even notice the 99% who don't cause us any problems, only the 1% who do. Only accidents causing damages in excess of $500 and/or injuries requiring medical attention are required to be reported (and a lot of those aren't either), so the stats only include the really bad ones and those reported to insurance companies. So there's really no way to know how many sailboats collide with each other or powerboats. I've been hit once (while on an anchor!) and had one really CLOSE call...both the other boats were sailboats. And remember--when a collision does occur, rarely is one boat 100% at fault unless the other one is tied to a dock...it takes two boats doing what they shouldn't be doing, or failing to do what they should have done, to cause a collision. Remember too, that you don't have to hit another boat to die at sea. The CG rescues far more sailboaters in trouble than powerboaters. But "ordinary" dismastings, rudder failures and keels falling off aren't exciting...unless there's a "Perfect Storm" story in it (or an idiot like the one with no sailing experience who left Atlantic City in a boat he'd just bought that was unseaworthy...I think the CG had to rescue them at least twice!), we'll never hear about 'em. I'm not defending the actions of idiots in powerboats--they're definitely out there...and so are idiots in sailboats. I'm just trying to put "scores" of accidents caused by powerboat wake into perspective.

 

[Dale Young]

I hope everyone reads this!!!

Approximately 2 years ago, My wife, My infant daughter, and Myself were docked at a marina and down below having a meal,When out of nowhere- A HUGE wake POUNDED the marina. My wife, standing at the time, was thrown across the galley with baby in her arms. The fall alone could have killed my child. FORTUNATLY for us- (and the ASS in the 50 ft Searay) no one was seriously hurt. Several boats in the marina were damaged as well as mine. ($320.00) to be exact. He never slowed. For you guys who have the opinion that some people are "whining", Dealing with waves at sea are one thing, But sending an annoying, (potentially dangerous) situation into a crowd of unsuspecting people is ENTIRELY another. Boating is a privilidge. If an individual cannot respect the space of others, That individual has NO place on water, nor any other place of shared communal activity-PERIOD!! BTW ,Legally,an offender CAN be held liable

 

[Dale Young]

Only one thing wrong Peggy.

Far more POWER boats per year need CG assistance over sailors. Any old CG dog as well as myself could verify that. To date, I personally have towed 5 runabouts back to dock.

 

[Jack]

Out of the barn

Hate to say it, but it is too late now to start massive regulation of boaters. The possible solution is that in order to obtain insurance, there is a need to have a certification of some sort. The insurance companies hold the power but only to the extent that a boat is mortgaged. No different than cars and uninsured motorists. There is always the group that ignores the law. Also going zero tolerance in the courts may help but then again look to cars and the number of lawyers that change speeding tickets into tailight infractions for the right price along with cooperation from the revenue seeking courts. We do pay a price for the freedoms we enjoy.

 

[Peggie Hall/Head Mistress]

That doesn't make 'em morons, Dale...

It just means their engines quit. In fact, I've had needed a tow a couple of times myself if I hadn't had two engines, and could get home on one when one quit.And if you have to go back two years to recall the last major problem caused by a moron, there can't have been too many worth mentioning since.

 

[Phil Herring]

Darn!

I thought this thread had finally died. How 'bout we let it slip away quietly?

 

[Dale Young]

I'm sorry Peggy !

I wasn't implying that powerboaters were morons,I was only relating a story of inconsiderate actions by another individual ,and the consequences that followed. Sorry, don't take it personally, I was'nt directed at you Peggy. I just hope the guys who throw the wakes will read my experience and think.

 

[gary jensen]

Wakes shouldn't upset us

Wakes are no biggie! So I turn my boat into it-----NO BIG DEAL! Don't let it upset a sail day. Its just not worth it!!!

 

[Peggie Hall/Head Mistress]

I didn't take your comments personally, Dale

I know I'm a knowledgable, responsible boat owner who always tries to be as considerate as circumstances will let me be. (And I didn't mean for this to be so long, but it is...and I THINK it's worth reading)I object to an "us" vs. "them" attitude on the part of sailors OR powerboaters. Stupidity, ignorance, carelessness and indifference are not limited to either powerboaters or sailors. Neither is the exclusive "victim" of the other's stupidity, ignorance, carelessness or indifference, either. Wake is just upsetting and dangerous to other powerboaters as it is to sailors. I've seen small runabouts swamped--I've fished a few people out of the water from runabouts swamped by a bigger boat's wake. I've had it knock things off my galley and break 'em when I was on an anchor. But I've also had to dodge sailboats who failed notice I was crossing behind them and came about suddenly...I've had sailboats under power with sails down play "chicken" with my boat, (deliberately?) ignoring the Rules...the list goes on. I'm not defending idiot powerboaters, nor accusing all sailors of being arrogant idiots. But as sailboats become almost as easy to sail--at least in lighter air--as powerboats are to drive, attracting more and more buyers of 30'+ sailboats who've never sailed before, there's less and less validity to the claim that "any fool can turn the key and go, but it takes skill and seamanship to sail." Whether the number of sailboats on the water will ever catch up to the number of powerboats is hard to say...but as boat prices continue to rise, the powerboat market for new boats is struggling--more than 2/3 of all powerboats sold now are used boats--and the market for new sailboats is on a steep rise. Why--because they cost a lot less than comparable sized powerboats (big engines are expensive!), and because sailboats have become the same "floating condos" that used to be exclusive to powerboats. Take the masts off many of 'em, and you wouldn't be able to distinguish 'em from an express power cruiser unless you really look hard. IMHO, there are too damn many boats of BOTH types on the waters today...operated/sailed by too many people who don't have a clue--and they spoil the enjoyment for ALL of us. But the solution isn't an "us" vs. "them" mentality between sail and power...it's in boater education and opportunities for each "class" to have a taste of how the other half lives. My YC has a race each spring in which each sailboat has to be crewed by at least two powerboaters--and we can't just be ballast and winch grinders, either...they have let us participate in sailing the boats. Gets real interesting rounding a mark with a stinkpotter on the helm, too. It's a lot of fun, but the most important thing it does is give the stinkpotters an opportunity to see what it's like to be on the lake in a sailboat with powerboats doing all the things sailboats complain about. We also have a few activities that require the stinkpotters to bring some sailors along if they wanna participate. The sailors find out that, contrary to popular belief, a sailboat under sail is actually a LOT more maneuvering in close quarters than a powerboat...that powerboats don't "drive like cars" at all, and can't stop or turn on a dime. Before the "integration" program started, most of the sailors and powerboaters--many who'd been members for years--didn't know each other. Today, stinkpotters often crew in club races, the sailors come to the powerboat dock parties, and the sailors and stinkpotters are joining each other for dinner.So instead of damning powerboaters, invite one to go sailing with you sometime. Not only will he find out that screaming along at 7 knots with the rails in the water is a WHOLE lot more exciting than burning fuel at 20 knots, but there's an excellent chance that some powerboats on the water will give him a taste of his own medicine--which is the best way to lean a lesson. And, you might go for a ride on a stinkpot too...kinda noisy, but at least the deck stays level. You can teach the skipper to cross behind sailboats and pass on the lee side whenever possible--and why he should. You'll learn a few things about powerboats too...and there'll be two boat more boat owners who have a greater respect and understanding of each other's abilities and limitations. It can't hurt...prob'ly will help...and sure beats doing nothing but complaining all the time!