My boat (a 1995 Hunter 26) has its original Doyle dacron sails. I'm no expert on sailcloth, but they seem to be in good shape. I know the boat spent a year on the hard with the sails bagged before I bought it; it's hard to say how much use it got before that (I'm the third owner.) Now I'm getting ready to convert the jib to roller furling, and I'm trying to decide whether there's enough life in the jib to justify the expense of modifying it. I got an estimate from a sailmaker in the high $300's for adding luff tape and UV protection. I'm also considering tackling the job myself. I could convert the luff for about $90 in materials from Sailrite. UV protection (using 3 oz. insignia cloth) would be around $100 in materials. I could just do the luff tape, on the assumption that the jib will wear out before the sun ruins it, or I could do both in hopes of getting maybe 5 more years of use from the sail. A new jib (29' luff, more or less) would run about $600-800, near as I can tell. Can anyone give me a rule-of-thumb estimate on sail longevity?
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Ray
Not a rule but...
Our Hunter 34' 1983 main is original.And the Genoa is about 5 yrs old and looks good to me.
Our Hunter 34' 1983 main is original.And the Genoa is about 5 yrs old and looks good to me.
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Jeff D.
Furler or Reefer?
If it was me I think I would get a new sail and make sure that it has a foam luff which improves the shape of the sail while reefed. There are furlers out there which really don't reef very well so I would make sure that you are getting one that reefs (designed to be used while partially unfurled) I would also suggest that you get a mitre cut sail if you have the dollars. Look around for a sailmaker which will give you a package deal for the furler and sail.
If it was me I think I would get a new sail and make sure that it has a foam luff which improves the shape of the sail while reefed. There are furlers out there which really don't reef very well so I would make sure that you are getting one that reefs (designed to be used while partially unfurled) I would also suggest that you get a mitre cut sail if you have the dollars. Look around for a sailmaker which will give you a package deal for the furler and sail.
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Tom Wootton
Jeff
I'm planning to use a CDI flexible furler (FF2). Since my jib is a 110% at most, I've been told that the foam is not needed. I considered upgrading to a genoa, but I've found that larger headsails are not recommended for my boat (it's a water ballast/centerboard design.) As far as I know, the CDI can be used for reefing, but I'll primarily use it for furling.
I'm planning to use a CDI flexible furler (FF2). Since my jib is a 110% at most, I've been told that the foam is not needed. I considered upgrading to a genoa, but I've found that larger headsails are not recommended for my boat (it's a water ballast/centerboard design.) As far as I know, the CDI can be used for reefing, but I'll primarily use it for furling.
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Mike
Repair Supplies?
What about repair supplies? Or what type of sewing machine? I have one small tear in a main that close to the boom. Any links to a "Do It Yourself" site? Out of the two 1981 22' Cats I have the original sails are still in pretty good condition.
What about repair supplies? Or what type of sewing machine? I have one small tear in a main that close to the boom. Any links to a "Do It Yourself" site? Out of the two 1981 22' Cats I have the original sails are still in pretty good condition.
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Sid R Ballantyne
How about 22 years?
I am using a pair of 22 year old sails on my Watkins 27 that are in great shape and still going strong. I recently had roller furling installed and the jib was modified by a loft. I had the boat surveyed in January and the surveyor was quite suprised at the good shape my sails were in and told me to hold off for a few years buying new sails as mine had lots of life left in them. I am a cruiser though and don't race. Racing would definitely require new sails.
I am using a pair of 22 year old sails on my Watkins 27 that are in great shape and still going strong. I recently had roller furling installed and the jib was modified by a loft. I had the boat surveyed in January and the surveyor was quite suprised at the good shape my sails were in and told me to hold off for a few years buying new sails as mine had lots of life left in them. I am a cruiser though and don't race. Racing would definitely require new sails.
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Jeff
Tom
Given that you are talking about a 110 and the cost quoted then I would opt for a new sail cut right from the start. I would still look around for a package deal. A a guideline, the Sail Warehouse advertises a Cat 25 with a 135% and CDI FF4 for $1039. Just a thought. By the way, these sails really are a good value despite what others assume. Most people that knock them have never owned them. At worst you can use the price point to negotiate with a local sailmaker.
Given that you are talking about a 110 and the cost quoted then I would opt for a new sail cut right from the start. I would still look around for a package deal. A a guideline, the Sail Warehouse advertises a Cat 25 with a 135% and CDI FF4 for $1039. Just a thought. By the way, these sails really are a good value despite what others assume. Most people that knock them have never owned them. At worst you can use the price point to negotiate with a local sailmaker.
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Walt Allensworth
Days in the sun, not years
Sail life is dictated more by the number of days that the sails are exposed to the sun, than how old they are. My Father has a Watkins 23 That's about 25-years old, with the original sails! He doesn't sail very much! I understand that charter-boat sails are getting pretty shot after the 5-year charter period. In the 70's I spent 6 weeks at sea on the M/V WESTWARD out of Woods Hole, and the crew said sails last them about 3 years. Of course, they were up (round-the-clock) somewhere around 200-days a year!
Sail life is dictated more by the number of days that the sails are exposed to the sun, than how old they are. My Father has a Watkins 23 That's about 25-years old, with the original sails! He doesn't sail very much! I understand that charter-boat sails are getting pretty shot after the 5-year charter period. In the 70's I spent 6 weeks at sea on the M/V WESTWARD out of Woods Hole, and the crew said sails last them about 3 years. Of course, they were up (round-the-clock) somewhere around 200-days a year!
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Warren
Old Sails
I have had an 1972 O'Day 22 since new....31 years! Still using the orginal maine & jib. I purchased a jenny in 1976...still using it. Brand is "Chow Lee", purchased separate from the boat. I don't race, so I don't care about ultimate preformance. The sails are pushed into the forepeak when not in use, I don't worry about folding them.
I have had an 1972 O'Day 22 since new....31 years! Still using the orginal maine & jib. I purchased a jenny in 1976...still using it. Brand is "Chow Lee", purchased separate from the boat. I don't race, so I don't care about ultimate preformance. The sails are pushed into the forepeak when not in use, I don't worry about folding them.
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Jim LeBlanc
Time in the sun
I agree with the responses which indicate that sails will last a long time if kept out of the sun and properly repaired, when needed. My boat is a 1983 S2 7.3 (24 ft)and has the original North Sails. The trick is to keep them out of the sun by furling or bagging. Since bagging tends to fold in the same places (or jam them into the bags, if you don't fold, I prefer to furl the jib and flake the main over the boom. Use a good sail cover and keep it in good shape to keep the sun off of the sail cloth. In the hot sun of Texas, the thread goes first, not the sail cloth or the cover cloth.
I agree with the responses which indicate that sails will last a long time if kept out of the sun and properly repaired, when needed. My boat is a 1983 S2 7.3 (24 ft)and has the original North Sails. The trick is to keep them out of the sun by furling or bagging. Since bagging tends to fold in the same places (or jam them into the bags, if you don't fold, I prefer to furl the jib and flake the main over the boom. Use a good sail cover and keep it in good shape to keep the sun off of the sail cloth. In the hot sun of Texas, the thread goes first, not the sail cloth or the cover cloth.
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David Foster
Ask a sailmaker
A good local sailmaker will visit your boat, and survey your sails at no charge. Although his first idea was that we needed a new genny, or a new asymetric, when he looked at our sails, he immediately said our 23 year old main was the first priority. Boy was he right! The new Doyle main delivered 5 degrees less heal, 1 to 1.5 more knots, and a dramatic reduction in weather helm in 15 knot breezes. In the years since, we have added an asymetric, and then a new 110 genny, but the new main was clearly the most dramatic improvement. My understanding is that dacron sails lose their shape gradually over time from deterioration caused by: - the sun - flexing of the fabric in different ways. Flogging is the worst case, but improper furling/storage is another - the stress of the wind In that order of importance. Our local loft inspects the sails (at no cost) yearly. I expect minor repair/recutting in the 5-10 year timeframe, and discussions of replacement at around 10 years. David Lady Lillie
A good local sailmaker will visit your boat, and survey your sails at no charge. Although his first idea was that we needed a new genny, or a new asymetric, when he looked at our sails, he immediately said our 23 year old main was the first priority. Boy was he right! The new Doyle main delivered 5 degrees less heal, 1 to 1.5 more knots, and a dramatic reduction in weather helm in 15 knot breezes. In the years since, we have added an asymetric, and then a new 110 genny, but the new main was clearly the most dramatic improvement. My understanding is that dacron sails lose their shape gradually over time from deterioration caused by: - the sun - flexing of the fabric in different ways. Flogging is the worst case, but improper furling/storage is another - the stress of the wind In that order of importance. Our local loft inspects the sails (at no cost) yearly. I expect minor repair/recutting in the 5-10 year timeframe, and discussions of replacement at around 10 years. David Lady Lillie
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Tom Wootton
Thanks, and link to DIY site
Thanks all for your input. Mike, Sailrite (link below) is one of my favorite sailing-related websites. They have sail repair tools and materials, and lots of free instructions online for all kinds of canvaswork, everything from sails to winch covers. I bought their DVD instructions for headsail conversion and CDI furler installation for $16. It shows every step in clear detail. They sell fabric and industrial sewing machines too, but I'm either going to borrow a home machine, buy a used one, or get a local upholsterer to do the stitching after I get it cut and stapled together. As far as I know there are no sailmakers near where I live or where I keep the boat (Yankeetown). The nearest I could find was in St. Pete, that's where I got the quote over the phone. Anyway, based on your responses, I'm probably going to go ahead and modify my existing jib; thanks again for the feedback.
Thanks all for your input. Mike, Sailrite (link below) is one of my favorite sailing-related websites. They have sail repair tools and materials, and lots of free instructions online for all kinds of canvaswork, everything from sails to winch covers. I bought their DVD instructions for headsail conversion and CDI furler installation for $16. It shows every step in clear detail. They sell fabric and industrial sewing machines too, but I'm either going to borrow a home machine, buy a used one, or get a local upholsterer to do the stitching after I get it cut and stapled together. As far as I know there are no sailmakers near where I live or where I keep the boat (Yankeetown). The nearest I could find was in St. Pete, that's where I got the quote over the phone. Anyway, based on your responses, I'm probably going to go ahead and modify my existing jib; thanks again for the feedback.
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Sid R Ballantyne
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S. Sauer
Any Sailmakers responding?
I have had such professional and helpfull responses from our local sailmaker in the minor repairs and servicing over the years, but only increased my respect for what they can do when I had the boat measured for a new main. The fit of a perfectly measured and cut main is hard to appreciate unless you've sailed with you own or someone else's poorly fitting sails. My original dacron main and Mylar 155 Genoa were well taken care of, always folded and rarely flogged and lasted 16 and 13 years respectively. I don't understand the attraction for the savings of an 'off-shore' manufactured sail over one made and serviced by any of the better local lofts if you look at the price, quality and longevity together.
I have had such professional and helpfull responses from our local sailmaker in the minor repairs and servicing over the years, but only increased my respect for what they can do when I had the boat measured for a new main. The fit of a perfectly measured and cut main is hard to appreciate unless you've sailed with you own or someone else's poorly fitting sails. My original dacron main and Mylar 155 Genoa were well taken care of, always folded and rarely flogged and lasted 16 and 13 years respectively. I don't understand the attraction for the savings of an 'off-shore' manufactured sail over one made and serviced by any of the better local lofts if you look at the price, quality and longevity together.
T
Tim Stodola at Doyle Sails
How Long
The question of longevity comes up all the time. There are many factors that effect the life of a sail, use, abuse, care and maintenance. However, in your case, the sails could be in great shape. An inspection by a good sailmaker can tell you if the sail is worth converting. this evaluation is normally FREE. As to adding insignia cloth for sun protection, DON'T DO IT! Insignia cloth does not provide adequate UV Protection, and will maybe provide 6 months of mediocre protection then you are back in the same place. UV Stabilized Dacron will provide about 3-4 years in the south. Sunbrella provide roughly 10years protection. Both of these fabrics aare relatively costly compared to insignia cloth, and a cost of $300. to convert your sail seems very reasonable for a proper job.
The question of longevity comes up all the time. There are many factors that effect the life of a sail, use, abuse, care and maintenance. However, in your case, the sails could be in great shape. An inspection by a good sailmaker can tell you if the sail is worth converting. this evaluation is normally FREE. As to adding insignia cloth for sun protection, DON'T DO IT! Insignia cloth does not provide adequate UV Protection, and will maybe provide 6 months of mediocre protection then you are back in the same place. UV Stabilized Dacron will provide about 3-4 years in the south. Sunbrella provide roughly 10years protection. Both of these fabrics aare relatively costly compared to insignia cloth, and a cost of $300. to convert your sail seems very reasonable for a proper job.
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Jim A
The number of choice is
10 years and then re-power, if you race or are a perfectionist. If your happy with the sail then so what. The thread will rot first, but you can re-thread it... Jim
10 years and then re-power, if you race or are a perfectionist. If your happy with the sail then so what. The thread will rot first, but you can re-thread it... Jim
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