it goes over? Will it go over or just spill the wind over the sails? I was using a 150 Gen and it was grabbing some big air, alittle scary at times. Heeled over at 30 degrees. We did reach around 5.4 knts using my GPS. Thanks, Mac
How far will a Mac 25 heel before
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MAC 25 Heel
Is your boat a MacGregor that are both built like a power and sailboat? Sailboat hulls are curved, powerboats are generally skimmers. The curvature of a sailboat will create a suction which may slow the boat a bit unlike a skimmer however will create greater stability. Does your boat have a keel and is it lead, or do you have a daggerboard with water ballast? Whats your capsize screen? It's quite difficult to capsize a cruiser unless you're in extremely rough seas. Generally, your boat will heel over enough to spill wind as you most likely know, my boat tends to then round up. If it gets too windy, I would recommend a reef and smaller jib.
Is your boat a MacGregor that are both built like a power and sailboat? Sailboat hulls are curved, powerboats are generally skimmers. The curvature of a sailboat will create a suction which may slow the boat a bit unlike a skimmer however will create greater stability. Does your boat have a keel and is it lead, or do you have a daggerboard with water ballast? Whats your capsize screen? It's quite difficult to capsize a cruiser unless you're in extremely rough seas. Generally, your boat will heel over enough to spill wind as you most likely know, my boat tends to then round up. If it gets too windy, I would recommend a reef and smaller jib.
heeling
Unless there are seas involved you cant dump it. But, it will sail much better and faster is you either drop the genoa or put up a smaller genoa. Novelman
Unless there are seas involved you cant dump it. But, it will sail much better and faster is you either drop the genoa or put up a smaller genoa. Novelman
What kind of Mac?
Check with Macgregor ... but it seems like they said that the 26s have a 90 degree righting angle. I do know firsthand (Mac 25 w/ swing keel) that I took an unexpected gust that put about 10 gallons of water in the cockpit. Sorry I wasn't watching the inclinometer at the time. I've learned to keep a better "waether eye" since then. Ol' Dave
Check with Macgregor ... but it seems like they said that the 26s have a 90 degree righting angle. I do know firsthand (Mac 25 w/ swing keel) that I took an unexpected gust that put about 10 gallons of water in the cockpit. Sorry I wasn't watching the inclinometer at the time. I've learned to keep a better "waether eye" since then. Ol' Dave
It is a Mac 25, 1982
I've read that if you put a smaller sail up front (jib) it will actually sail faster? Is that right? I'm new to this but loving every minute of it. Thanks for the responses. Mac
I've read that if you put a smaller sail up front (jib) it will actually sail faster? Is that right? I'm new to this but loving every minute of it. Thanks for the responses. Mac
Waves Required
Waves are required to roll a boat with a ballasted keel. But if you have a swing keel it could be damaged by swinging around a lot. Be sure the hatch boards are in place because water in the cockpit might cause you to swamp. We used to get a lot of water in the cockpit of a friends mac 25. But the physics involved say that as you heel the sails present less area to the wind and the keel weight shifts away from the center of bouyancy increasing the righting force. At some point you stop going over any farther. But with a macs light displacement and light keel weight it might be possible for enough weight to shift around to make you not come back up very quickly. But most people don't carry that much stuff for this to be a great concern.
Waves are required to roll a boat with a ballasted keel. But if you have a swing keel it could be damaged by swinging around a lot. Be sure the hatch boards are in place because water in the cockpit might cause you to swamp. We used to get a lot of water in the cockpit of a friends mac 25. But the physics involved say that as you heel the sails present less area to the wind and the keel weight shifts away from the center of bouyancy increasing the righting force. At some point you stop going over any farther. But with a macs light displacement and light keel weight it might be possible for enough weight to shift around to make you not come back up very quickly. But most people don't carry that much stuff for this to be a great concern.
Experiment!
I ws out the other day, in shallowish water (~ 8') and 20 knots, and just playing about 1/4 mile out from my marina. Beam reach, then sheet all the way in. You can get over pretty far..but she just rounds up and stands back on her feet. The only scary experiment was when I didnt cleat the main, but sheeted the jib in. That looked like a recipe for a bad gyb. So blow the headsail and sheet in the main - turn your boat into a big windvane!
I ws out the other day, in shallowish water (~ 8') and 20 knots, and just playing about 1/4 mile out from my marina. Beam reach, then sheet all the way in. You can get over pretty far..but she just rounds up and stands back on her feet. The only scary experiment was when I didnt cleat the main, but sheeted the jib in. That looked like a recipe for a bad gyb. So blow the headsail and sheet in the main - turn your boat into a big windvane!
Heeling
You should really spend some time learning the principles behind the sailing. Seat of the pants is nice, but it is important to understand the basics to avoid endangering yourself and the crew -- and it will make it more fun as well. There are lots of good books and courses, and its well worth it to get some understanding of what makes the boat go, why and how much it heels, and how to get it sail smoothly. All boats are designed for some amount of heel, but the best and fastest sailing is often done by reducing the heel through either reefing, changing sails, or dropping the traveler to leeward.
You should really spend some time learning the principles behind the sailing. Seat of the pants is nice, but it is important to understand the basics to avoid endangering yourself and the crew -- and it will make it more fun as well. There are lots of good books and courses, and its well worth it to get some understanding of what makes the boat go, why and how much it heels, and how to get it sail smoothly. All boats are designed for some amount of heel, but the best and fastest sailing is often done by reducing the heel through either reefing, changing sails, or dropping the traveler to leeward.
I've seen 60* + just for
fun on my V-21. I've had the main tapping the water on a beam reach with the traveler (bungie) up and no reefs. I had the forehatch dogged and the companionway hatch in and wanted to see just how far she'd go. The first 30* were pretty quick but as she went over further, she hardened up. It took gusts over 40 to get her to 60*. I was singlehanding in the lake with a PFD on and was determined to keep her pinned to learn exactly how she acted. Needless to say, I was real impressed with the boat. It was interesting using the cabin windows as a planing surface. I did find that the aftermarket rudder worked well, even at those severe angles. As far as sailing faster flat goes, when ya get past a certain point, it just don't matter. The Macs do need larger scuppers to drain the cockpits though, the OEM ones are way too small.
fun on my V-21. I've had the main tapping the water on a beam reach with the traveler (bungie) up and no reefs. I had the forehatch dogged and the companionway hatch in and wanted to see just how far she'd go. The first 30* were pretty quick but as she went over further, she hardened up. It took gusts over 40 to get her to 60*. I was singlehanding in the lake with a PFD on and was determined to keep her pinned to learn exactly how she acted. Needless to say, I was real impressed with the boat. It was interesting using the cabin windows as a planing surface. I did find that the aftermarket rudder worked well, even at those severe angles. As far as sailing faster flat goes, when ya get past a certain point, it just don't matter. The Macs do need larger scuppers to drain the cockpits though, the OEM ones are way too small.
Ted your right, but
you don't get the experience from a book like you do on the water. I picked this boat up last August and have been rehabing it since. I'm on this board daily and suscribe to a few mags. I've bought some sailing books, rewiring books etc, but I still need to hear from other sailers of what this boat can do. But thanks for the advice, and look forward to more experiences from other mac owners. Mac
you don't get the experience from a book like you do on the water. I picked this boat up last August and have been rehabing it since. I'm on this board daily and suscribe to a few mags. I've bought some sailing books, rewiring books etc, but I still need to hear from other sailers of what this boat can do. But thanks for the advice, and look forward to more experiences from other mac owners. Mac
I had a Mac 25
I learned to sail on a Mac 25. No one to teach me but a few books. They pretty much all read alike. Sailing is not rocket science. If you get over powered, loosen everything up and re-group. The worse conditions I sailed in were 6-8 ft seas about 30-35 knots off the coast of Gulfport, Ms. Actually it was fun. When we were new at sailing, me and GF took the Mac out in the worst of weather. After sailing for about 6 months and making friends in the marina, we were told that we shouldnt take the boat out in that weather. Gee, nobody told us that before. Gf always used to ask, "how come we are the only ones out here again?" The Mac will lay down to the rails pretty good, but I never actually flooded the cockpit. The really bad thing about high winds and over canvassed is the loss of control when it heads up into the wind with a big gust. That could be dangerous at times on a smallish Mac 25. and as others have said, you will actually sail faster when standing up than heeled way over. However, its not the same 'rush'. IMHO Tony B
I learned to sail on a Mac 25. No one to teach me but a few books. They pretty much all read alike. Sailing is not rocket science. If you get over powered, loosen everything up and re-group. The worse conditions I sailed in were 6-8 ft seas about 30-35 knots off the coast of Gulfport, Ms. Actually it was fun. When we were new at sailing, me and GF took the Mac out in the worst of weather. After sailing for about 6 months and making friends in the marina, we were told that we shouldnt take the boat out in that weather. Gee, nobody told us that before. Gf always used to ask, "how come we are the only ones out here again?" The Mac will lay down to the rails pretty good, but I never actually flooded the cockpit. The really bad thing about high winds and over canvassed is the loss of control when it heads up into the wind with a big gust. That could be dangerous at times on a smallish Mac 25. and as others have said, you will actually sail faster when standing up than heeled way over. However, its not the same 'rush'. IMHO Tony B
I've got one...
I've got an '85 M-25. There was a cold front expected on a race day last fall, but no one knew for sure when it would come in. During the second race the wind finally veered around and went from about 10-12 kts. to 40 kts. We got caught with a full main and 150% up. The Capri 30 behind us said he saw the root of my keel and my rudder was out of the water. We took water over the starboard coaming into the cockpit. Just guessing, but probably over to about 60 degrees. Forward speed pretty much scrubbed off, we let the sheets out and she came back up. Long story short, yes the wind will eventually spill over the top of your sails and you will come back up when you either un-sheet or the wind dies back down. I took her out in 20-30kt. g-35 with two reefs and a storm jib a couple of weeks ago and had a decent sail. Lesson learned from that is either bring a couple of friends for ballast or take in the tack pennant on the SJ down to the deck. She was plenty tender. GPS maxed at 7.8 kts. on a reach/run. It's one thing to sail one on inland water in high winds, but wind and big waves could knock one down pretty hard. I'd also be concerned about a sudden high gust when you've got a lot of that aft flat bottom showing to the wind. I've considered in the past wanting to take mine to Bimini with the Conch cruisers, but with only 625 lbs. of ballast, that seems pretty foolhardy if you get visited by a few storms in the Gulf Stream. ICW or from Miami to Key West- sure if the outlook is pretty stable for the week.
I've got an '85 M-25. There was a cold front expected on a race day last fall, but no one knew for sure when it would come in. During the second race the wind finally veered around and went from about 10-12 kts. to 40 kts. We got caught with a full main and 150% up. The Capri 30 behind us said he saw the root of my keel and my rudder was out of the water. We took water over the starboard coaming into the cockpit. Just guessing, but probably over to about 60 degrees. Forward speed pretty much scrubbed off, we let the sheets out and she came back up. Long story short, yes the wind will eventually spill over the top of your sails and you will come back up when you either un-sheet or the wind dies back down. I took her out in 20-30kt. g-35 with two reefs and a storm jib a couple of weeks ago and had a decent sail. Lesson learned from that is either bring a couple of friends for ballast or take in the tack pennant on the SJ down to the deck. She was plenty tender. GPS maxed at 7.8 kts. on a reach/run. It's one thing to sail one on inland water in high winds, but wind and big waves could knock one down pretty hard. I'd also be concerned about a sudden high gust when you've got a lot of that aft flat bottom showing to the wind. I've considered in the past wanting to take mine to Bimini with the Conch cruisers, but with only 625 lbs. of ballast, that seems pretty foolhardy if you get visited by a few storms in the Gulf Stream. ICW or from Miami to Key West- sure if the outlook is pretty stable for the week.
Great Info
I am new to my Mac as well and was out for the first time in 22-25knot winds with 5 foot waves, probably doesnt sound like much to the vets, but I found it pretty tough jibing. I dropped the jib and reefed the main, not sure if that was the best thing to do. I have since heard running with the reefed main and jib is the best way to go. Heading up wind she sailed like a dream. Any thoughts? I am self taught as well, feel like hands on is the best way to go.......
I am new to my Mac as well and was out for the first time in 22-25knot winds with 5 foot waves, probably doesnt sound like much to the vets, but I found it pretty tough jibing. I dropped the jib and reefed the main, not sure if that was the best thing to do. I have since heard running with the reefed main and jib is the best way to go. Heading up wind she sailed like a dream. Any thoughts? I am self taught as well, feel like hands on is the best way to go.......
a test
Ok I should probablly start with some kind of a disclaimer like they use on all those reality shows. I learned to sail on a '85 Mac 25. Being rather new at sailing (by this time I had a couple months under my belt) I was curious as to what it would take to knock the boat down so myself and a larger and equally curious buddy went out for a sail. The winds were hitting in the low to mid twenties so it was a perfect day for this test. At first the best we could do was to get the boat to around 30 degree's. Next We pulled out the pin that locks the keel down and cranked it all the way up. We both sat on the leeward side of the boat, pulled the sails tight and cranked hard so we were taking the wind hard on the broadside. It took a few tries but the best we could do was around 45 degrees. After that I felt pretty safe in the boat. We were using a 150 genoa at the time. It seems that once the once the boat begins to heel that far it starts to dump some of the wind and the pressure isn't enough to keep the boat down. The Mac is a great boat and when used properly it is very safe. I had also seen pics of a test the factory did where they bored 5" holes below the water line and the boat only sank to the rub rail. I know they have a lot of foam stuffed into them to help that out. Have fun
Ok I should probablly start with some kind of a disclaimer like they use on all those reality shows. I learned to sail on a '85 Mac 25. Being rather new at sailing (by this time I had a couple months under my belt) I was curious as to what it would take to knock the boat down so myself and a larger and equally curious buddy went out for a sail. The winds were hitting in the low to mid twenties so it was a perfect day for this test. At first the best we could do was to get the boat to around 30 degree's. Next We pulled out the pin that locks the keel down and cranked it all the way up. We both sat on the leeward side of the boat, pulled the sails tight and cranked hard so we were taking the wind hard on the broadside. It took a few tries but the best we could do was around 45 degrees. After that I felt pretty safe in the boat. We were using a 150 genoa at the time. It seems that once the once the boat begins to heel that far it starts to dump some of the wind and the pressure isn't enough to keep the boat down. The Mac is a great boat and when used properly it is very safe. I had also seen pics of a test the factory did where they bored 5" holes below the water line and the boat only sank to the rub rail. I know they have a lot of foam stuffed into them to help that out. Have fun
I understand your concerns.
I learned on a Hobie 16. We use to knock it over just to practice righting it. After a while going over was no big deal. Going over while hooked to a trapeze never seized to be a hair raising experience. When I got my Mac I was still nervous about going over and it took a while to get over the Hobie conditioning. It was reassuring to read previous archived posts here to know that the boat will always right itself. Rounding up still produces an adrenaline surge but heeling no longer bothers me. Now if I can just convince the admiral.
I learned on a Hobie 16. We use to knock it over just to practice righting it. After a while going over was no big deal. Going over while hooked to a trapeze never seized to be a hair raising experience. When I got my Mac I was still nervous about going over and it took a while to get over the Hobie conditioning. It was reassuring to read previous archived posts here to know that the boat will always right itself. Rounding up still produces an adrenaline surge but heeling no longer bothers me. Now if I can just convince the admiral.
Just get her to drive on a windy day.
I used the "We gotta practice MOB with you driving" excuse. At the end of the day she was kicking some serious butt!
I used the "We gotta practice MOB with you driving" excuse. At the end of the day she was kicking some serious butt!
It won't capsize
Unless there are some strange swells simultaneously. It will, however, dump you and your crew right out of the cockpit. A better solution is to let the sheets go until the heel is managable, this may include changing heading, or reduce sail. Properly trimmed and off the wind, there should be little heel.
Unless there are some strange swells simultaneously. It will, however, dump you and your crew right out of the cockpit. A better solution is to let the sheets go until the heel is managable, this may include changing heading, or reduce sail. Properly trimmed and off the wind, there should be little heel.
Haven't gone over yet
My son and I went out for Fathersday and we got as far as 40* went out in 10 to 25 knot winds with a friend and got the same resaults. Haven't been blown down yet. I'm also new to sailing I've only been out in my mac 25 six times. And I am loving it. When't racing once with it, came in last but I think I got the racing bug.
My son and I went out for Fathersday and we got as far as 40* went out in 10 to 25 knot winds with a friend and got the same resaults. Haven't been blown down yet. I'm also new to sailing I've only been out in my mac 25 six times. And I am loving it. When't racing once with it, came in last but I think I got the racing bug.
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