How far do Shrowds and stays streach?
- Thread starter Mougly
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What other reason would cause the shrouds to loosen? it seems that after going out in very windy conditions my shrouds loosen up...I know it is not the turnbuckles loosening...I also know it's not the chain plate moving....
I was also told by a service man to expect that the shrouds and stays will need tuning and readjusting on a regular bases...is this accurate or should I be concerned?
I was also told by a service man to expect that the shrouds and stays will need tuning and readjusting on a regular bases...is this accurate or should I be concerned?
loose
your mast may be compressing the area directly underneath it. look for concave compression indent in fiberglass. could be caused by wet core in deck or sagging floor
your mast may be compressing the area directly underneath it. look for concave compression indent in fiberglass. could be caused by wet core in deck or sagging floor
There is no signs of deck compression, or cracking any where near the mast.
How often would you normally tune your wires?
Most twisted 1X19 wire needs to be 'set in' by stretching when new, stretched a few times until all the wires reach a dimensional steady state with relation with oneanother in the 'twist'. Once that pre-stretching is accomplished the wire remains quite stable. .... unless the wire exceeds its 'yield strength' and is now permanently 'stretched'.
If any of your rigging wire was newly installed, the 'settle-in to final length dimension' may be what you are observing.
Most probable reason for rig length/tension changes include:.
1. If deckstepped mast system the probability that the mast butt wasnt fully settled in its 'socket' when the rig was tuned.
2. deformation of the support structures (rot) of the compression post, and other mast supports; or, if keel stepped rot or other changes under the mast butt support
3. swages that are slipping
3a. swages that have become cracked (slipping), or corrosion is occurring inside of the swage allowing the wire to slip.
4. Rigging screws that are slipping due to cracks in the 'barrel' portion
5. elongation of the clevis or swaged 'eyes' - plastic deformation.
6. rigging screws 'backing-off' by vibration, etc. especially if the rigging screws are not a good 'non-overhauling' design (a poor thread pitch choice).
7. chainplate problems: rot in the knees, chainplate deforming because of gradual 'fatigue' of the metal (brittle + ductile failure), cracks in the chainplate, broken/deforming chainplate attachment bolting, etc.
8. corroded mast butt.
9. gremlins
.
If any of your rigging wire was newly installed, the 'settle-in to final length dimension' may be what you are observing.
Most probable reason for rig length/tension changes include:.
1. If deckstepped mast system the probability that the mast butt wasnt fully settled in its 'socket' when the rig was tuned.
2. deformation of the support structures (rot) of the compression post, and other mast supports; or, if keel stepped rot or other changes under the mast butt support
3. swages that are slipping
3a. swages that have become cracked (slipping), or corrosion is occurring inside of the swage allowing the wire to slip.
4. Rigging screws that are slipping due to cracks in the 'barrel' portion
5. elongation of the clevis or swaged 'eyes' - plastic deformation.
6. rigging screws 'backing-off' by vibration, etc. especially if the rigging screws are not a good 'non-overhauling' design (a poor thread pitch choice).
7. chainplate problems: rot in the knees, chainplate deforming because of gradual 'fatigue' of the metal (brittle + ductile failure), cracks in the chainplate, broken/deforming chainplate attachment bolting, etc.
8. corroded mast butt.
9. gremlins
.
My 1981 J24 standing rigging did not stretch as of 2009 when i replaced it and the new stuff was setup at my normal settings with a Loos gauge and did not change over a season of racing
The hull is still very stiff and i get a small amount of slack on the leeward shrouds when its set up to the tuning guide specs for heavy air and i am sailing in 20 knots
The hull is still very stiff and i get a small amount of slack on the leeward shrouds when its set up to the tuning guide specs for heavy air and i am sailing in 20 knots
I'm with Ross. Really setting up the stays with the right tension can lead to slight deformation of your hull in response.
I tune the rig every spring, and when I see slack on the leeward side in heavy wind. There should never be slack in the stays, because this will lead to huge shock loads on a tack or gybe.
With loads of less than 25% of rated strength, stays are well within their elastic range - they will not be permanently stretched by the load of your rig.
I tune the rig every spring, and when I see slack on the leeward side in heavy wind. There should never be slack in the stays, because this will lead to huge shock loads on a tack or gybe.
With loads of less than 25% of rated strength, stays are well within their elastic range - they will not be permanently stretched by the load of your rig.
I wait a several days after I launch (to let the hull find it's "in water" form) before I tune the standing rigging. I have never had to adjust the standing rigging during the sailing season. Does your boat have a compression post inside the cabin. Might want to check the areas around the top and bottom.
Someone on this forum posted a rig-tuning tip that, as I recall, had you place two pieces of tape X inches apart on slack wire. Then, when the wire is tightened to it's proper tension, the tapes would/should be X farther apart, but not as far as your slackening.
Here is a little more information which may help understand the situation I am dealing with....The boat has been in the water for only 3 months, before that it was stored for a year and a half with the mast down, I then stepped the mast and tuned the rigging about two weeks after that I noticed that the shrouds where looser and reudjusted them...about a month and a half later I noticed that they were loosening again and readjusted them, and now a month after that they seem to be loosening again and mainly on one side...
I am still at a loss on how to tell if the swages are slipping... I am also aware of how to tune the rigging and what is the required tension, my concerns are whether there is problem somewhere in the rigging or if this is normal for a boat that was stored for over a year, in addition to being stored every winter for about 6 month a year.
I am still at a loss on how to tell if the swages are slipping... I am also aware of how to tune the rigging and what is the required tension, my concerns are whether there is problem somewhere in the rigging or if this is normal for a boat that was stored for over a year, in addition to being stored every winter for about 6 month a year.
Mougly - what you report is not an intact rig system.
You HAVE 'something' slipping or deforming, ........ inordinately.
If the side stays are the only thing loosening, then carefully and especiallly check the swages, chainplates, etc. of the side stays.
If the forestay/backstay then ditto as above.
If ALL is loosening look at the mast butt (severe corrosion), the compression post (rot), the base of the compression post especially where is sits in the bilge (rot), the 'roof' of the boat where the mast is sitting.
just be methodical and follow/validate one thing at a time until you find it .... then look at the opposite side for the exact same thing.
;-)
You HAVE 'something' slipping or deforming, ........ inordinately.
If the side stays are the only thing loosening, then carefully and especiallly check the swages, chainplates, etc. of the side stays.
If the forestay/backstay then ditto as above.
If ALL is loosening look at the mast butt (severe corrosion), the compression post (rot), the base of the compression post especially where is sits in the bilge (rot), the 'roof' of the boat where the mast is sitting.
just be methodical and follow/validate one thing at a time until you find it .... then look at the opposite side for the exact same thing.
;-)
Loose Shrouds
Your shrouds should not be loose at the dock...something is giving way. You do have cotter pins in the ends of the turnbuckles to prevent them from moving/loosing under repeated loading while sailing?
My Catalina 320 manual says the following regarding properly tuned rig: "The leeward shrouds should begin to go slack at about 15 deg. heel." My previous boat did this also, and I've seen numerous high end racing boats in the magazines with loose leeward shrouds. Take care in tightening...too much and you can permanently deform or crush something, setting yourself up for a major failure. But this slackness is under loading when sailing since the twisted wires can tighten the twist a little and actually elongate just a wee bit under load. Take off the load (as back at dock), then all should be tight again.
It might be money well spent to have a professional/experienced rigger to look at your situation. That will be cheap vs. mast failure or stripped turn buckles, or crushed cabin/hull.
Good luck in resolving the situation.
Your shrouds should not be loose at the dock...something is giving way. You do have cotter pins in the ends of the turnbuckles to prevent them from moving/loosing under repeated loading while sailing?
My Catalina 320 manual says the following regarding properly tuned rig: "The leeward shrouds should begin to go slack at about 15 deg. heel." My previous boat did this also, and I've seen numerous high end racing boats in the magazines with loose leeward shrouds. Take care in tightening...too much and you can permanently deform or crush something, setting yourself up for a major failure. But this slackness is under loading when sailing since the twisted wires can tighten the twist a little and actually elongate just a wee bit under load. Take off the load (as back at dock), then all should be tight again.
It might be money well spent to have a professional/experienced rigger to look at your situation. That will be cheap vs. mast failure or stripped turn buckles, or crushed cabin/hull.
Good luck in resolving the situation.
Check the mast support or compression post in the cabin. Chances are you may have some bend in it.
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