We purchased a new deck sweeping 150 genoa for our boat over the winter. We sailed previously with the #3 that came with the boat, so I would say we are beginners at using this sail. It's great having new sails but I am not sure I have the fairlead set properly for the genoa. The trim looks right on a close haul but when we ease the sheet for a beam reach or a broad reach, the sheet is inhibited by the safety lines at it does not appear that the clew and foot have a good shape. It appears that the sheets would be more properly set if they ran outside (and underneath) the safety lines to the fairlead. But of course that won't work for close hauled. On our small lake, we are changing course constantly and have little time to relax, so we are not changing the fairlead when heading downwind and I suspect this may be part of the problem. Also, if I'm not at the helm, we tend to over steer when tacking on a close hauled course (I'm not pointing any fingers). This usually means that after the genoa has swept the deck, the clew is outboard of the lifelines and I have to trim a little, go forward and bring the clew and foot inboard when it gets hung up on the lifelines, go back and trim some more. It becomes a juggling act when there is only two of us. I get concerned that all this interaction with the lifelines is causing strain on the stanchion supports.
- Status
Similar problems....
HI Scott- I have similar problems with my Genoa. I look forward to the responses from experienced sailors, as I am a beginner here. Just to add what I have learned from experience so far, I now wait for the wind to bring the genoa sail further across the deck, and carry it out over the lifelines. We used to tug and pull, but as you pointed out, it appears to put excessive wear on the sheets. So that we don't loose course too much in the process, the person at the helm compensates with stearage until the sail gets trimmed back in...... Again, looking forward to what experience has to add to this topic myself.
HI Scott- I have similar problems with my Genoa. I look forward to the responses from experienced sailors, as I am a beginner here. Just to add what I have learned from experience so far, I now wait for the wind to bring the genoa sail further across the deck, and carry it out over the lifelines. We used to tug and pull, but as you pointed out, it appears to put excessive wear on the sheets. So that we don't loose course too much in the process, the person at the helm compensates with stearage until the sail gets trimmed back in...... Again, looking forward to what experience has to add to this topic myself.
How do you set geneo sheets for reaching?
Scott & Sailorsue: I love talking to beginners as this site is designed specifically for you guys. To any beginners out there reading this stuff - just fire away with your questions. I promise you will not be ridiculed or intimadated and your questions will be answered in plain simple English by a lot of guys on this forum that really know what they are doing from a sail trim standpoint. A lot of this stuff you can learn yourself, which might take a lot of trial and error. Why bother re inventing sail trim. Just ask the question and you will receive an answer. Yup, that's the problem with a deck sweeper. You have to lift up some part of the foot and put it inside the safety lines. There is no way around it. If the sail was was cut a bit higher that problem could be avoided but you would sacrifice a bit of performance, which I assume is the reason you bought the deck sweeper in the first place. The fairlead adjusment problem is easily solved. Invest in the Garhauer adjustable fair lead system. You won't believe how easy fairlead adjustment will become. I assume your boats are masthead rigs and the ENGINE of your boats is the jib. If you are not adjusting your fairleads your sailing like a broken clock. In other words, the setting is right for some point of sail and wind condition but wrong for all the others plus you are not getting the performance out of your jib that you paid good money to get. Setting your fairleads is very simple and my book "The Sail Trim Users Guide" and my "Sail Trim Chart" outline the set by step proceedure that is very easy to follow. I can't tell you how many boats I've been on where the fairleads are rusted in place. I always make a point of asking the skipper how he uses the fairleads but I already know the answer. They generally tell me "oh, I don't bother with them". My own brother is a classic example of this and I've explained the proceedure to him a million times plus he has my book but I think he eats the pages instead of reading them!! There are 4 things on the jib we are adjusting and they are draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack and the fairlead is USED TO ADJUST ALL 4 ELEMENTS - did I say that LOUD ENOUGH!!. In other words, it is virtually impossable to correctly shape your jib without using the fairleads.
Scott & Sailorsue: I love talking to beginners as this site is designed specifically for you guys. To any beginners out there reading this stuff - just fire away with your questions. I promise you will not be ridiculed or intimadated and your questions will be answered in plain simple English by a lot of guys on this forum that really know what they are doing from a sail trim standpoint. A lot of this stuff you can learn yourself, which might take a lot of trial and error. Why bother re inventing sail trim. Just ask the question and you will receive an answer. Yup, that's the problem with a deck sweeper. You have to lift up some part of the foot and put it inside the safety lines. There is no way around it. If the sail was was cut a bit higher that problem could be avoided but you would sacrifice a bit of performance, which I assume is the reason you bought the deck sweeper in the first place. The fairlead adjusment problem is easily solved. Invest in the Garhauer adjustable fair lead system. You won't believe how easy fairlead adjustment will become. I assume your boats are masthead rigs and the ENGINE of your boats is the jib. If you are not adjusting your fairleads your sailing like a broken clock. In other words, the setting is right for some point of sail and wind condition but wrong for all the others plus you are not getting the performance out of your jib that you paid good money to get. Setting your fairleads is very simple and my book "The Sail Trim Users Guide" and my "Sail Trim Chart" outline the set by step proceedure that is very easy to follow. I can't tell you how many boats I've been on where the fairleads are rusted in place. I always make a point of asking the skipper how he uses the fairleads but I already know the answer. They generally tell me "oh, I don't bother with them". My own brother is a classic example of this and I've explained the proceedure to him a million times plus he has my book but I think he eats the pages instead of reading them!! There are 4 things on the jib we are adjusting and they are draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack and the fairlead is USED TO ADJUST ALL 4 ELEMENTS - did I say that LOUD ENOUGH!!. In other words, it is virtually impossable to correctly shape your jib without using the fairleads.
Tacking a 150
requires a runner, thats a person, not a piece of gear. When tacking with a crew of two, the driver releases the sheet, and the "runner" runs the sail around the mast and drags the clew back down the new leward rail while the driver takes in the sheet hand over hand ( picture a madman) through the winch without using the handle to crank, hopefully before the sail fills fully, then puts the sheet in the tailer grove and does back to stearing while the "runner" domes back in the cockpit and does the final cranking and trimming. On a tiller boat, the driver will have the tiller between the legs while doing the sheet work. Off the wind, the sheet running out over the lifeline(whether on not you adjust the fairlead) is unavoidable. I would probably just lead the sheets outside the life line when two on the boat.
requires a runner, thats a person, not a piece of gear. When tacking with a crew of two, the driver releases the sheet, and the "runner" runs the sail around the mast and drags the clew back down the new leward rail while the driver takes in the sheet hand over hand ( picture a madman) through the winch without using the handle to crank, hopefully before the sail fills fully, then puts the sheet in the tailer grove and does back to stearing while the "runner" domes back in the cockpit and does the final cranking and trimming. On a tiller boat, the driver will have the tiller between the legs while doing the sheet work. Off the wind, the sheet running out over the lifeline(whether on not you adjust the fairlead) is unavoidable. I would probably just lead the sheets outside the life line when two on the boat.
Adjustable fairleads $$$$
I had my eye on this over the winter and bought the adjustable traveller system (Schaefer) instead. It was quite disturbing when I finally brought the components to the boat only to discover that the flange (for the cam cleat) on the outhaul blocks interferes with opening the cockpit seats. So now I have a couple of hundred dollars in hardware sitting in the back of my car (not returned yet). I am waiting for an inspired idea about installing this stuff so everything can work but its not hitting me between the eyes yet! *grr The old system with the traveller car between 2 stoppers seems like it will have to do. I was hesitant in buying a fairlead system because the extra components and lines leading to the cockpit may be distessing to the crew! I share your notion that constant attention to details is rewarding but others get a little annoyed!
I had my eye on this over the winter and bought the adjustable traveller system (Schaefer) instead. It was quite disturbing when I finally brought the components to the boat only to discover that the flange (for the cam cleat) on the outhaul blocks interferes with opening the cockpit seats. So now I have a couple of hundred dollars in hardware sitting in the back of my car (not returned yet). I am waiting for an inspired idea about installing this stuff so everything can work but its not hitting me between the eyes yet! *grr The old system with the traveller car between 2 stoppers seems like it will have to do. I was hesitant in buying a fairlead system because the extra components and lines leading to the cockpit may be distessing to the crew! I share your notion that constant attention to details is rewarding but others get a little annoyed!
Fairlead position for reaching
When we crack off to a reach we usually run an extra jib sheet through a block on the toe rail positioned just forward of the inboard failead. This shapes the sail much better on a reach than an inboard fairlead. This is especially usefull when the wind pipes up, reducing the healing moment without loosing forward drive.
When we crack off to a reach we usually run an extra jib sheet through a block on the toe rail positioned just forward of the inboard failead. This shapes the sail much better on a reach than an inboard fairlead. This is especially usefull when the wind pipes up, reducing the healing moment without loosing forward drive.
Inboard or outboard
Pac: Exactly, inboard is use for closehauled and maybe up to close reach. All other points of sail should use the outboard track. Problem is most production boats have only one or the other. For example, on my 1981 C30 they were outboard so I used a Barberhauler. Most newer boats are inboard.
Pac: Exactly, inboard is use for closehauled and maybe up to close reach. All other points of sail should use the outboard track. Problem is most production boats have only one or the other. For example, on my 1981 C30 they were outboard so I used a Barberhauler. Most newer boats are inboard.
Scott from Seattle
My wife and I tack our 150 genny all of the time and no one leaves the cockpit. We have found that releasing the sheets so the wind carries the sail through the foretriangle at the right moment is the key to the operation. If not done at the right time the clew has a tendency to hang up on the side stays
My wife and I tack our 150 genny all of the time and no one leaves the cockpit. We have found that releasing the sheets so the wind carries the sail through the foretriangle at the right moment is the key to the operation. If not done at the right time the clew has a tendency to hang up on the side stays
OK..in summary..BROAD REACHING???
OK. MY '88 Hunter 28.5 has masthead rig and a 150% genoa. I go well with Close- and Beam Reaching, but my Broad Reaching skills stink!. SO, in a nutshell, here are the questions: 1. Genoa: Put a block on the rail, forward of my usual spot and run a separate sheet through it and then crank it in until I have all 3 teletales flowing evenly? 2. Mainsail: flat with telltales streaming with boom positioned so it points to the aft corner? Thanks for the help!
OK. MY '88 Hunter 28.5 has masthead rig and a 150% genoa. I go well with Close- and Beam Reaching, but my Broad Reaching skills stink!. SO, in a nutshell, here are the questions: 1. Genoa: Put a block on the rail, forward of my usual spot and run a separate sheet through it and then crank it in until I have all 3 teletales flowing evenly? 2. Mainsail: flat with telltales streaming with boom positioned so it points to the aft corner? Thanks for the help!
David W, I agree with your method
NJ Scott was bothered by inboard sheeting and stress on the lifelines when trimming in. Having a crew member drag the clew back and inside the lifelines is a method to avoid this problem. I don't see many boats using a crew to bring the jib back ( racers to it always), most folks tack your way. Yes, timing is everything as to when to release the sheet and when to start trimming, to keep the genoa from handing up. Enjoying the recent weather trend?
NJ Scott was bothered by inboard sheeting and stress on the lifelines when trimming in. Having a crew member drag the clew back and inside the lifelines is a method to avoid this problem. I don't see many boats using a crew to bring the jib back ( racers to it always), most folks tack your way. Yes, timing is everything as to when to release the sheet and when to start trimming, to keep the genoa from handing up. Enjoying the recent weather trend?
Recent weather trend
Hey Scott, yes we sure are especiall since it started during our two week San Juan cruise July 16- Aug 2!!!
Hey Scott, yes we sure are especiall since it started during our two week San Juan cruise July 16- Aug 2!!!
- Status