Don: Do you publish a schedule of your seminars? Do you ever come to the East Coast to do them? Great as your book and charts are, it would be helpful to be able to ask all my dumb questions in person. Dick
How do we get to your seminars?
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Dick: Unfortunately, I have none scheduled for the near future. Additionally, you can not believe how hard it is to schedule seminars. The following is probably more than you ever wanted to know about the sail trim seminar business but here it goes. I've found that only about 25% of the sailors worldwide are interested in this kind of stuff. They are the ones that frequent this forum and buy my products. They want to be better sailors. The top 25% don't need it but the group from 25% to 50% sure do. A friend of mine from a sailing group in Marina Del Ray said it best. I could not sell his club on the seminar idea and he told me the problem was "a man does not know what he does not know". Most of these guys in that middle group think they are Dennis Conner. How do I know that? I hear them talking before and after the seminar or my group presentation. You should hear the questions they ask me or their group conversations about sailing adventures that I evesdrop on. I normally conduct seminars in the So Ca area and have been as far north as Ventura and as far south as San Diego. I know there is a market for it because the last 2 I conducted at my YC, we had to cut off the attendence at 75 (due to space)and we had over 150 people that wanted to attend each event. Three people showed up at the door and because they came from such a distance (Phoenix and San Diego) we let them in. I charge $75 for the 3 hour seminar and that includes my book, chart plus 6 handouts. The seminar is 3 solid hours with one 15 minute brake and sometimes I cut that to 10 minutes. Even with that, folks have problems with the cost. They tell me that they are just common seaman and can't afford it. Unfortuantely, I do not have St. Vincent De Paul printed on my forehead!! If I'm conducting the seminar through a charter company I even split the profits, after expense, with them and still it is difficult to impossable to get takers. I need a organization with a large customer bases and a meeting room such as a YC or a charter company. I did conduct a couple of semianrs for a large charter company in So Ca but they are more interested in getting folks into charter so the deal just stopped and they were making money that they normally would not get from this project. I don't know. In addition to the seminar, I also conduct an "on the water" seminar for mates that have completed the classroom session, which is 4 hours in duration. They have to have completed the classroom session because otherwise I waste too much time describing draft depth, twist ect and all the sail trim controls for the main and jib. At my YC, I conducted one with 6 boats in order to accomadate all that wanted to attend and it was a mess because I could not control everything I wanted to from a dingy. I don't do it that way anymore. What I do now is limit it to 6 people on one boat. The way it works is that each person rotates through every position (skipper, mainsheet trimmer, jib trimmer, tailor, foredeck etc) on every point of sail. At each crew change, I mess up all the controls so they have to start from scratch to get the boat moving. Additionally, they have to explain every sail trim adjustment they are making and why they are making it. Every sail trim control is used in every position. The first hour is normally a mess BUT by the end of the second hour they are really in to it. By the end of the third hour they are able to look at boats around us (and on any given weekend there are a million of them with crappy sail trim) and tell me what is wrong with the trim and what adjustment is needed to correct the situation. The best part for me is the closehauled run back to the marina at the end of the 4th hour. The sail trim is the best you'll ever see and they are getting the 100% the boat is wanting to give. I charge $100 dollars each person for this program and people complain about the price. My question is would anyone out there spend $25 an hours to learn how to adjust every sail trim control on the boat for any point of sail and learn it in 4 hours!?! I sure would. I spent over $1000 on sailing lessons and all I could do was flake sail and back the boat. I had no idea what the wind was doing to the sails. I have to be nuts to do the 4 hour session on the water for $25 per hour per person but it is a labor of love - I know someone out there is going to say with 6 people it is $150 per hour overall but I'm just recouping some of my losses on the classroom session. My real goal is that I do not want to see folks go through what I had to in order to learn how to sail a boat. I get a great deal of satisfaction in teaching people the simple proceeders necessary to sail a boat. My drive home from these sessions is a real HIGH. The bottom line is that I would love to take my program on the road but there is absolutely no money in it. Even when I go to San Diego, my wife goes with me and during the seminar she goes shopping. I've never made a dime on these trips - in fact it costs me money!!
What about the "show" circuit?
Don, What about hitting the Sail America shows? I think they have them in 4-5 large markets. Sail America would do all your marketing and you would just stand somewhere in the show afterwards selling and autographing your books and charts! I know I would go to Chicago (in the dead of winter) to see you. Dan B 1973 Catalina 27 Hull #653
Don, What about hitting the Sail America shows? I think they have them in 4-5 large markets. Sail America would do all your marketing and you would just stand somewhere in the show afterwards selling and autographing your books and charts! I know I would go to Chicago (in the dead of winter) to see you. Dan B 1973 Catalina 27 Hull #653
How about the show circuits
Dan B: Thank you for the tip. I have looked into the boat shows and it is a small fortune to get a booth area. For example, the cost for the smallest booth at the Long Beach Boat Show is over $2000. That is a crap load of books and charts to sell before I make dime one. A number of times I have attended the show with Garhauer Marine. They let me have a corner of their booth where I sell my stuff and theirs also. It is one hand washing the other - people buy their products and I explain how to use them. It is easy for me to get to Long Beach but to go any farther, like Oakland, the cost for travel, food and lodging just add up to make it a losing proposition. It gets even worse if my wife goes with me and she definately would want to go to San Fran. I'd have to take out a loan to cover my expenses!!
Dan B: Thank you for the tip. I have looked into the boat shows and it is a small fortune to get a booth area. For example, the cost for the smallest booth at the Long Beach Boat Show is over $2000. That is a crap load of books and charts to sell before I make dime one. A number of times I have attended the show with Garhauer Marine. They let me have a corner of their booth where I sell my stuff and theirs also. It is one hand washing the other - people buy their products and I explain how to use them. It is easy for me to get to Long Beach but to go any farther, like Oakland, the cost for travel, food and lodging just add up to make it a losing proposition. It gets even worse if my wife goes with me and she definately would want to go to San Fran. I'd have to take out a loan to cover my expenses!!
Maybe I'm amazed…
…and I was when I first read the low level of interest in your seminar topic. Then I remembered the one advanced sail trim class I discovered and attended - it took forever searching everywhere to find one - and remembered there were only 6 people who signed up for the class. This is the New York area: we have tons of sailors, but I guess the great majority are in the 25% to 75% zone. It turned out not to be a great class anyway. What it missed was the type of onboard training you describe. This sounds invaluable. I know it's what I need and, frankly, most of the pals I've sailed with need it too, whether they know it or not. Don, we need to clone you and scatter you around the coastal areas so those of us outside your current area get an opportunity to get on a boat with one of you, get it all wrong, then learn how to do it right. Meanwhile: thanks for this forum (and of course for the book and charts). Dick
…and I was when I first read the low level of interest in your seminar topic. Then I remembered the one advanced sail trim class I discovered and attended - it took forever searching everywhere to find one - and remembered there were only 6 people who signed up for the class. This is the New York area: we have tons of sailors, but I guess the great majority are in the 25% to 75% zone. It turned out not to be a great class anyway. What it missed was the type of onboard training you describe. This sounds invaluable. I know it's what I need and, frankly, most of the pals I've sailed with need it too, whether they know it or not. Don, we need to clone you and scatter you around the coastal areas so those of us outside your current area get an opportunity to get on a boat with one of you, get it all wrong, then learn how to do it right. Meanwhile: thanks for this forum (and of course for the book and charts). Dick
Maybe I'm amazed
Dick: I came very close to putting together a program as you've described. I was approched by a group of sailors in Newport Beach that were involved with a sailing school and had more money than I've seen in my life. It was to be a video and teaching program and instructors would use my material and methods. The plans were first class. Half way through the deal they tell me I have to sign over all rights to them. I thought for a moment about all the hard work and effort I spent putting my stuff together and the fact anyone can take what someone else builds and message it but the trick is to actually build it from scratch. I told them to forget it. My book and chart are the class material and anyone could set up a lesson plan using that stuff. You would think then that someone could just stand up and give a lecture. The problem is you would not believe the questions that come during each segment and you really have to have a command of the subject or you look like a fool.
Dick: I came very close to putting together a program as you've described. I was approched by a group of sailors in Newport Beach that were involved with a sailing school and had more money than I've seen in my life. It was to be a video and teaching program and instructors would use my material and methods. The plans were first class. Half way through the deal they tell me I have to sign over all rights to them. I thought for a moment about all the hard work and effort I spent putting my stuff together and the fact anyone can take what someone else builds and message it but the trick is to actually build it from scratch. I told them to forget it. My book and chart are the class material and anyone could set up a lesson plan using that stuff. You would think then that someone could just stand up and give a lecture. The problem is you would not believe the questions that come during each segment and you really have to have a command of the subject or you look like a fool.
How do we get your seminars?
Dick: I forgot to add a story about the "on the water" program. At one of my seminars in Long Beach I met a young couple before the class. They were sitting over in a corner and that is what attracted me to them. We chatted a bit and they told me they are about ready to give up sailing. They had taken classes at a local sailing school but they did not get a lot out of the program and as a result they only charted smaller boat and sailed with only the main because they were afraid of the jib. The bottom line was sailing was not fun because they did not know what they were doing. After the class I asked them what they thought of the class, in additions to the writen comments I always get from everyone. They told me some stuff like twist and angle of attack still confused them and they did not grasp the use of all the controls. I told them that is very common until you actually see and do it and I suggested they try the "on the water" session the next day and they agreed. The next day, once we got out in the harbor, and I started to assign positions, the wife tells me she does not want to drive. I told her too bad but you have to go through all crew positions and driving is one of them and I'll be standing next to you so don't worry. Reluctantly, she takes the wheel. Anyway, we go through the full 4 hours and go back to the dock. I might add, that on the run back to the dock, which is the high point of my day, because the sails look so great - she drove!! I couldn't get the wheel from here she was liking it so much. On the way back to the dock, I see her talking to her husband and as soon as we docked they both jumped off the boat and headed up to the charter office. My first thought was "oh crap, now what have I done". In a few minutes, they come down the dock and tell me they just chatered a 30 footer for the next day and could not wait to take it out. That MADE MY DAY. I almost get emotional when I think about it. With most instructional programs, you sail along and trim as you go. To me that is a waste of time. Picture this - with me, your sailing along closehauled and as soon as the boat reachs full speed, the boat is brought head to wind and stopped. I loosen everything main and jib sheets, traveler, outhaul, jib main cunningham, leech lines. In other words EVERYTHING. The crew rotates positions and has to put everything back together to get the boat going full speed and they have to tell me what adjustment they are making and why. We do that 6 times or as many times as there are crew members. The first hour is a Chinese fire drill but they make quantum leaps from that point on. We do the same thing on every point of sail. My goal is to show them that sail trim is really simple when you take it apart instead of looking at it as some big mass of info. Even if these participants retain only 50% to 60% of what I've told them they are better at sail trim than 50% of the sailors worldwide.
Dick: I forgot to add a story about the "on the water" program. At one of my seminars in Long Beach I met a young couple before the class. They were sitting over in a corner and that is what attracted me to them. We chatted a bit and they told me they are about ready to give up sailing. They had taken classes at a local sailing school but they did not get a lot out of the program and as a result they only charted smaller boat and sailed with only the main because they were afraid of the jib. The bottom line was sailing was not fun because they did not know what they were doing. After the class I asked them what they thought of the class, in additions to the writen comments I always get from everyone. They told me some stuff like twist and angle of attack still confused them and they did not grasp the use of all the controls. I told them that is very common until you actually see and do it and I suggested they try the "on the water" session the next day and they agreed. The next day, once we got out in the harbor, and I started to assign positions, the wife tells me she does not want to drive. I told her too bad but you have to go through all crew positions and driving is one of them and I'll be standing next to you so don't worry. Reluctantly, she takes the wheel. Anyway, we go through the full 4 hours and go back to the dock. I might add, that on the run back to the dock, which is the high point of my day, because the sails look so great - she drove!! I couldn't get the wheel from here she was liking it so much. On the way back to the dock, I see her talking to her husband and as soon as we docked they both jumped off the boat and headed up to the charter office. My first thought was "oh crap, now what have I done". In a few minutes, they come down the dock and tell me they just chatered a 30 footer for the next day and could not wait to take it out. That MADE MY DAY. I almost get emotional when I think about it. With most instructional programs, you sail along and trim as you go. To me that is a waste of time. Picture this - with me, your sailing along closehauled and as soon as the boat reachs full speed, the boat is brought head to wind and stopped. I loosen everything main and jib sheets, traveler, outhaul, jib main cunningham, leech lines. In other words EVERYTHING. The crew rotates positions and has to put everything back together to get the boat going full speed and they have to tell me what adjustment they are making and why. We do that 6 times or as many times as there are crew members. The first hour is a Chinese fire drill but they make quantum leaps from that point on. We do the same thing on every point of sail. My goal is to show them that sail trim is really simple when you take it apart instead of looking at it as some big mass of info. Even if these participants retain only 50% to 60% of what I've told them they are better at sail trim than 50% of the sailors worldwide.
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