How Best to Slow While Running Wing to Wing

[JonnyQuest]

I thought others were saying that while running downwind that if you were moving too fast that you ran the risk of ? broaching? Not really sure if that was the risk or maybe I was just misreading it.

The concern was that if the boat needs to be turned upwind to ease pressure and drop sails/reef/furl/etc that there could be a risk of broaching as you turn through the following seas and winds.

This could be applicable for me if I am running to harbor on the MS coast and there are no natural inlets to break the wind and waves--just miles of straight beach line. I'd just come screaming into the harbor entrance which is a man made dog-legging funnel with tight jetties on either side, and right there the chop kicks up in a nasty way. Other traffic at same time? I might be better off if I could come about and drop sails before entering harbor inlet.

But the OP's assumption of really snotty conditions makes coming about a potentially unsafe maneuver.

Hmm, glad someone brought this scenario up!

 

[Stu Jackson]

But the OP's assumption of really snotty conditions makes coming about a potentially unsafe maneuver.

Hmm, glad someone brought this scenario up!

Sailing jib only downwind has advantages. Sure is nice to not have to worry about the boom. In heavy air you just have to make sure the jib doesn't go flying around the forestay. We had a friend sail his boat down the coast of California. He told me that had big trouble around Point Conception, a notoriously heavy wind area. "We were running with just the main up and we had a lot of trouble turning back upwind to drop it. Even the motor wouldn't get us around enough." All I asked was if they were able to do it. What I was going to say, before I realized it would sound rude, was "What the hell were you doing going downwind in heavy wind and seas with only your main instead of just your jib?"

 

[kpgraci]

Great topic. I was caught in this situation, screaming downwind with both sails and no safe way to turn or drop sails...apparent wind was deceiving but I knew I was in a situation when the wind started whistling through the rigging. . Jib only when downwind in high winds from now on.

 

[LuzSD]

+1 on the thanks for bring up this discussion, it's been an informative read. What great resources you all are.

 

[dziedzicmj]

Great discussion. I just wanted to add that running wing on wing in heavy wind and heavy seas is not what i would suggest for faint of heart. Even with preventer and a whisker pole, you need to pay constant attention and with the following seas (supposedly heavy), you will have a hard time keeping it really straight.

Flying just the jib (that can be easily reefed on the furler) is one way. If you want to go fast, gybe from broad reach to broad reach, where you can go fast (if not faster) without the problems associated with wing on wing.

just my $0.02

Marek

 

[Johnb]

Putting aside the valid statement that you should avoid downwind with main up, what to do if you are?

The problem is that with main alone the center of wind force (drive) has moved aft. This is like pushing the boat from behind. As a wave comes up from behind you may lose rudder effectiveness just as you speed up down the wave face.

In dingy sailing this is swimming time. To try and prevent it we would pull up the center board when going downwind so the center of lateral resistance moved aft and the boat would not pivot around it and broach i.e. turn port or starboard violently.

On a keel boat I would turn up wind as soon as the realization strikes that the situation needs it. I don't really understand where the difficulty would arise in doing that. If running on main alone I have always found the boat tends to weather helm and that would be to your advantage. I have "chicken jibed" many a time. If you were running downwind why not just start the equivalent of a chicken jibe and not complete it, maybe get the boat into irons for a minute of two. Whilst in irons the main should come down very quickly, the flogging actually eases friction.

 

[LaColla]

Jib only-with or without a pole?

 

[Doc_holiday]

If you are sailing wing on wing and it got to be too much, would it not be prudent to turn off the wind in the opposite direction of the boom so you could relax the jib and the main would dump? Maybe relax the vang if you have one?

 

[s sauer]

Single handing Wing on Wing

I had a race rigged 28.5; with no roller furler and a Tuff-Luff head foil that I regularly single handed. Here's one method I've actually used...

With the main controlled by a vang and a preventer, release the jib or Genoa clew from the pole, drop the pole and tack the Genoa behind the main.
Do not turn upwind!
Slowly snug the Genoa behind the main only until it back winds the main.
Either reef the main or drop it totally as conditions warrant.

Those with a rolller furler can now furl or partially furl the Genoa running down wind. Single handling with a Head Foil system you will need to head up into the wind, and I'd drop the sail to the deck with the engine in gear.

Prudence would suggest you NOT single hand wing on wing with anything larger than a 110 Jib and/or reef the main when you first get nervous.

 

[Chief RA]

I have sailed on lakes and sea for many years but that does not necessarialy make me an expert. I have learned much from reading this thread! s sauer really impressed me with his command of sail manipulation to drop canvas without coming about!
My latest sail is a Catalina 250, tall mast, wing keel and it is my understanding that these boats take considerable skill to sail. This will be my first summer with her and hope we get along well!
Finishing up all the boat projects ahould have her in the water at Bodega Bay in a few weeks and will try these downwind concepts out. Thanks, Chief

 

[weinie]

Gybe the jib, head just a few degrees above DDW (so you dont accidently gybe the main) and roll up the jib in the lee of the main.
Head up wind, tacking (instead of gybing) if needed.


Also, in heavy snot, if I had a choice of only one sail to use, it would be the main. In most cases, if there is a sudden onset of high winds, say up to 30-40knots, the first thing you are going to do to reduce canvas is roll up the jib and not the other way around anyway.

Secondly, my 135 jib will get overloaded in 20 knots of wind or more without the main to balance. It becomes almost impossible feat of strength to trim it all the way in, so much so that I worry about tearing the sail.

 

[Ariadna]

Hi, Rob.
I can tell you one thing: Hunter 35 is a wonderful boat, rare one, which fully under control when running under full main and spinnaker even at strong winds. Proven during race on Lake Ontario, never broaches.
Vlad