How And When Is A Drogue Used?

Maine Sail · Mar 16, 2010

You would use a drogue when running from a storm. You can trail it from the stern or the stern quarter. Sometimes running off at an angle slightly off DDW is safer as it prevents burring the bow in the back of the next wave. They help prevent surfing which can lead to a stuck bow and a knock down.

The loads exerted on a Drogue are HUGE and if you plan to own one you should really beef up your stern cleats, you'll need two and a LOT of strength. Dedicated chain plates would be a better choice. I have had to trail warps before, not a drogue, though would have used one if I'd had it, and can assure you that they are near impossible to reign in or shorten even with a winch when in big seas so when you make the decision you are locked into it for a while.

The Jordan Series Drogue, invented by Don Jordan, is perhaps one of the best known and tested of the drogues. Don was an aeronautical engineer who developed this drogue after the well known 1979 Fastnet race. It is basically a long line (boat size dependent) with many fabric cones attached along its length. Unlike a para anchor or parachute sea anchor the drogue applies a consistent load avoiding the shock loads that can happen with a sea anchor. With a proper bridle the JSD can even be tuned somewhat by moving the load off axis slightly. These are for off shore work only and should never be used near a lee shore..

sailingdog · Mar 16, 2010

For more information on the JSD, you can read the post I wrote about it, here.

IMHO, the JSD is one of the best pieces of storm survival gear for small sailboats.

CharlieCobra · Mar 16, 2010

I would probably use a drogue in seas over 25-30' if the boat got to accelerating too fast. So far, I've been out in 60 knots without issue. I don't run off straight down wind. I hate that rolly crap and run off on a broad reach.

sailingdog · Mar 16, 2010

But we all know you're crazy Charlie...and Oh Joy is a very heavy beastie...

CharlieCobra said:
I would probably use a drogue in seas over 25-30' if the boat got to accelerating too fast. So far, I've been out in 60 knots without issue. I don't run off straight down wind. I hate that rolly crap and run off on a broad reach.

duality · Mar 16, 2010

thank God i sail on the great lakes! you guys are scaring me 25, 30 footers! though lake michigan is no pond, just ask ted turner, it can throw you a curve ball.

mike

jibes138 · Mar 16, 2010

I have a JSD but never used it yet.
Mainesail....they recommend bolting chainplates to the stern quarter for mounting them but I envisioned using both the jib sheet cleats and the stern cleats. The jib sheet cleats would be preferable to just the stern cleats as when the stern is lifted up by a wave the bridle will be holding the boat down at the winches verses putting all the load just on the stern, just a thought anyway. I don't see many boats with chainplates rigged for the JSD but agree it would be the ideal system.
Sailingdog...I have a 10 pound mushroom anchor for use on the end of the JSD for the required weight to hold the drogue in the water. I saw somewhere that a recommendation was to use a length of chain. Both give the required weight but I figured the mushroom anchor would provide further resistance to drift. Any thoughts on the preferred weight?

Don12364 · Mar 16, 2010

Parachute Drogues

Series drogues are only for when you have enough searoom to leeward. They are used to slow the boat down to a few knots. But too slow and the waves break into the cockpit (pooped), washing the crew overboard and bursting the companionway doors.
So if you know how long the storm will last (huh!) you can estimate how much distance you need.

On the other hand a parachute drogue is streamed from the bow and so the boat presents its least resistance to the weather and the cockpit is a safer place. These devices are huge and the boat is effectively stopped. GPS tracks even show boats proceeding to windward under tidal flow.
However the warp imposes serious loads on the fittings. Some even recommend taking a turn round the mast if it is keel stepped. Also the warp must have plenty of chafe protection otherwise it wears through.
A friend had one go this way when nobody was prepared to go on the foredeck to change the 'nip' of the warp.
He sent a Mayday and, fortunately, the CG dropped him another from their helicopter.

I read all about the above in books, having never been there nor ever shall!

sailingdog · Mar 16, 2010

I'd recommend using custom chain plates. Many cleats aren't sufficiently well backed. Also, custom chainplates are far more likely to have clear leads to the JSD.

As for the weight, I'd go with the chain, as it is less likely to foul IMHO. Also, less likely to chafe the JSD rode while stowed.

jibes138 said:
I have a JSD but never used it yet.
Mainesail....they recommend bolting chainplates to the stern quarter for mounting them but I envisioned using both the jib sheet cleats and the stern cleats. The jib sheet cleats would be preferable to just the stern cleats as when the stern is lifted up by a wave the bridle will be holding the boat down at the winches verses putting all the load just on the stern, just a thought anyway. I don't see many boats with chainplates rigged for the JSD but agree it would be the ideal system.
Sailingdog...I have a 10 pound mushroom anchor for use on the end of the JSD for the required weight to hold the drogue in the water. I saw somewhere that a recommendation was to use a length of chain. Both give the required weight but I figured the mushroom anchor would provide further resistance to drift. Any thoughts on the preferred weight?

kenn · Mar 16, 2010

Donalex,

On the Jordan drogue website, they link to this USCG paper which I guess is their original research into this.

I've only just skimmed it, but on page 61, section 6.6 this paper mentions the following problems with running the sea anchor from the bow:
- required chute is 2 to 3 times bigger than what's required from the stern, therefore bigger loads on boat and gear
- boat will yaw whenever anchor line goes slack
- if bow's into the wind, that means the boat is usually going backwards, therefore no steerage

If I understand correctly, the more even drag created by the series drogue from the stern is to slow the boat enough to not be reacting as much to the rollers, and the chance of being severely pooped are apparently reduced. And you would have some ability to direct the boat, by the rudder or by the position of the drogue lines.

I read all about the above in books, having never been there nor ever shall!

Uhh... me too : )

Shell · Mar 16, 2010

My advice would be not to use any unless you are experienced and know how and when to deploy. There are so many variables to go scrambling around on you boat deploying a piece of equipment you have not used before. We all read and fantasize on what to do if this or that happens. In dangerous waters is not the time to learn. If you do get one, practice and experiment in more forgiving water. Build your skills.

jibes138 · Mar 16, 2010

The only way to get experience is to get out there. Ideally on a voyage the JSD will be attached by the bridle for use when needed and stored in the cockpit ready to deploy. In mild conditions it doesn't seem like it would give the same results as in storm conditions. With a ten pound weight or so on the end the drogue would likely be hanging straight down in mild seas. i'd think you would need about 40 knots to practice with it. i think the biggest benefit is to allow the crew to rest as fatigue at sea is insidious and can severely effect judgement. Also there is a tendency to be so focused on staying alive and dealing with the conditions you are less apt to eat further causing fatigue and judgement problems. Psychology at sea is a study unto itself and every personality is different. Some people jump overboard ending it and others perform miracles in survival mode. I'd rather have the JSD and no experience with it than not have it.

donker · Mar 17, 2010

Duality, I met Gordon Lightfoot while at college in Michigan, so I get the Edmund Fitzgerald thing. But it's true, the big league surfers don't spend much time in Grand Haven. You're relatively sheltered from Tsunamis too....

To all - I need some clarification on what I think I'm hearing. Can one use a JSD as both a drogue or a sea anchor? I learned to sail in the early 70's before the JSD was invented and at that time it was recommended that both a drogue and a sea anchor should be carried on board. Never used either before but never sailed to Mexico before this coming October, so I'm getting prepared for anything.
Thanks -- I learn a lot from these forums.

donker · Mar 17, 2010

And one more question -- would anyone see a problem with using 1-2 5-lb diving weights instead of a mushroom anchor (understanding the potential problems with that of itself)?
I plan on taking basic dive gear with me to Mexico and could save overall weight if they did dual duty. Not likely I'd need them for both purposes at the same time (duh) and the JSD would be the default storage location for it/them.

sailingdog · Mar 17, 2010

NO

donker said:
Duality, I met Gordon Lightfoot while at college in Michigan, so I get the Edmund Fitzgerald thing. But it's true, the big league surfers don't spend much time in Grand Haven. You're relatively sheltered from Tsunamis too....
To all - I need some clarification on what I think I'm hearing. Can one use a JSD as both a drogue or a sea anchor? I learned to sail in the early 70's before the JSD was invented and at that time it was recommended that both a drogue and a sea anchor should be carried on board. Never used either before but never sailed to Mexico before this coming October, so I'm getting prepared for anything.
Thanks -- I learn a lot from these forums.

sailingdog · Mar 17, 2010

A length of chain is better. There's always a chance that you attach the weights incorrectly in a hurry to deploy the drogue... better to rig it and leave it rigged.

donker said:
And one more question -- would anyone see a problem with using 1-2 5-lb diving weights instead of a mushroom anchor (understanding the potential problems with that of itself)?
I plan on taking basic dive gear with me to Mexico and could save overall weight if they did dual duty. Not likely I'd need them for both purposes at the same time (duh) and the JSD would be the default storage location for it/them.

Liam · Mar 17, 2010

mid-ship cleats

I have found that the best way to attach a drogue is with a bridle run forward to mid-ship cleats. By doing this you have better helm control as the ruddler is not figting against load on stern cleats. It also keeps the stern from being "pulled downward" into following seas.

sailingdog · Mar 17, 2010

Liam said:
I have found that the best way to attach a drogue is with a bridle run forward to mid-ship cleats. By doing this you have better helm control as the ruddler is not figting against load on stern cleats. It also keeps the stern from being "pulled downward" into following seas.

Chafe will be much more of an issue though. Custom chainplates for the bridle, down near the water line are a much better idea.

Prime Time · Mar 17, 2010

Drogue Reviews

Practical Sailor did a review in Feb. of 2009. There are alot of first hand accounts of the use of the drogues on the web. Look at Sailnet. The Safety at Sea seminar in Newport last weekend did cover this.

They are for survival storms where you are at risk from breaking waves.

sailingdog · Mar 17, 2010

They are also good for use when a crew is too fatigued to continue and need to get some rest, even in non-survival storm conditions. This is particularly true of the JSD, as it doesn't require one to steer while it is working.

Prime Time said:
Practical Sailor did a review in Feb. of 2009. There are alot of first hand accounts of the use of the drogues on the web. Look at Sailnet. The Safety at Sea seminar in Newport last weekend did cover this.

They are for survival storms where you are at risk from breaking waves.