WE removed the 1986 over board piping and vent loop system this weekend. I am suprised of the tubing quality used by Hunter for this important service. We had cracks in every hose. The bulkhead discharge valve was broken as to not permit hand pumping overboard. This left me with several quarts of solid waste in the hoses which leaked while pulling the hoses out. I tried to get most of the heavy stuff out with towels but some of this made its way below the floor. We tried several cleaners but there must be a special cleaning product for this problem. Please advise. PS/ We had two grades of high grade industrial hose which were too stiff to feed through the existing holes and make the required turns so we had to run to the West Marine store and buy there soft hose. I also found out why plumbers charge so much!
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Pat Spino
Head hose
Try the SEALAND hose---use a hair dryer to soften the hose ends to help ease installation.
Try the SEALAND hose---use a hair dryer to soften the hose ends to help ease installation.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
You hardly have room to complain about the quality
of any hose that's been on a boat for 14 years--and if I were you, I'd also check your fuel and exhaust hoses too! The average time between sanitation hose replacement about 3 years...5 if you're lucky. After 14 years, I'm not at all surprised the hoses had cracked...I AM surprised anyone could even stand to be aboard the boat in hot weather. Fuel and exhaust hoses have a little longer lifespan that sanitation hose--primarily because odor permeation usually requires replacement long before sanitation hose begins to actually fail, but after 7 or 8 years, it's time to start keeping a VERY close on fuel, exhaust and water hoses, and replace those at the first sign of any cracking. And if you'd asked for suggestions about how to do it BEFORE you tackled this project, I'd have been glad to share some tricks that avoid--or at least minimize--spills. That you couldn't use the "high grade" industrial hose you bought was prob'ly a blessing in disguise...for while it may be heavier and thicker, most industrial hoses are a) somewhat rough inside--which traps wastes, and b) highly susceptable to absorbing odors, and therefore will start to stink very quickly. And since your hose is new, it would never occur to you that it was culprit until AFTER you'd put a lot more time, effort and money into "cures" that don't solve the problem.. Clean up your spills with detergent and water. Do NOT use bleach! Then spray the areas liberally with undiluted K.O. (live bacteria holding tank treatment). Don't rinse...let it dry. Leave lockers and settees open so that plenty of fresh air can circulate in them for at least a full day. The bacteria in K.O. will "eat" the odor-causing spores, and should completely cure the problem. The build-up you found in the hoses were due to several things--sea water calcium carbonates, urine crystals, and incomplete flushing that left waste sitting in the hoses. You'll find a lot of good information about how to prevent it from happening again in the articles in the Head Mistress forum Reference Library--it's on the home page of the HM forum.
of any hose that's been on a boat for 14 years--and if I were you, I'd also check your fuel and exhaust hoses too! The average time between sanitation hose replacement about 3 years...5 if you're lucky. After 14 years, I'm not at all surprised the hoses had cracked...I AM surprised anyone could even stand to be aboard the boat in hot weather. Fuel and exhaust hoses have a little longer lifespan that sanitation hose--primarily because odor permeation usually requires replacement long before sanitation hose begins to actually fail, but after 7 or 8 years, it's time to start keeping a VERY close on fuel, exhaust and water hoses, and replace those at the first sign of any cracking. And if you'd asked for suggestions about how to do it BEFORE you tackled this project, I'd have been glad to share some tricks that avoid--or at least minimize--spills. That you couldn't use the "high grade" industrial hose you bought was prob'ly a blessing in disguise...for while it may be heavier and thicker, most industrial hoses are a) somewhat rough inside--which traps wastes, and b) highly susceptable to absorbing odors, and therefore will start to stink very quickly. And since your hose is new, it would never occur to you that it was culprit until AFTER you'd put a lot more time, effort and money into "cures" that don't solve the problem.. Clean up your spills with detergent and water. Do NOT use bleach! Then spray the areas liberally with undiluted K.O. (live bacteria holding tank treatment). Don't rinse...let it dry. Leave lockers and settees open so that plenty of fresh air can circulate in them for at least a full day. The bacteria in K.O. will "eat" the odor-causing spores, and should completely cure the problem. The build-up you found in the hoses were due to several things--sea water calcium carbonates, urine crystals, and incomplete flushing that left waste sitting in the hoses. You'll find a lot of good information about how to prevent it from happening again in the articles in the Head Mistress forum Reference Library--it's on the home page of the HM forum.
J
Jerry Woznicki
Short Life Pipe
Thanks Peggie. Your right about being lucky on the 14 year old hose although I just took ownership of the boat in June and have been sending repair info requests on this web every since. I am very interested in the 3-5 year life span of the hose. With a few expansion joints, it seems that PVC may be a better material to use in waste service, if you have the room to install and replace. Please advise.
Thanks Peggie. Your right about being lucky on the 14 year old hose although I just took ownership of the boat in June and have been sending repair info requests on this web every since. I am very interested in the 3-5 year life span of the hose. With a few expansion joints, it seems that PVC may be a better material to use in waste service, if you have the room to install and replace. Please advise.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Till the SeaLand hose came along,
most sanitation hose permeated within 3-5 years...in extreme cases in which sewage was left to "ferment" in the hose, in a matter of weeks (my own did in less than 2 months). All hose is water-absorbent to some degree...the thicker the hose, the tighter the molecules, the more water resistant it is--which is why the softer easer to bend it, is the faster it tends to fail. It was believed until recently that double-walled rubber hose was the most water resistant, but Practical Sailor tests showed that black rubber hose sanitation hose permeates even faster than top quality white flexible PVC hose. Rubber industrial grade or exhaust hose is even more water/odor absorbent than that. SeaLand solved the problem by encasing hose in a "skin" of material that's virtually 100% impermeable. Rigid PVC--hard pipe--is 100% water and odor impermeable...but it doesn't bend at all, requiring inline fittings to go where even the stiffest hose would bend easily enough to make it with no problems. And, because it doesn't flex or bend much, it's necessary to "soft couple" hard pipe to any rigid object--tank, pump, toilet, through-hull--with about a foot of hose that acts as a shock absorber. Otherwise, heavy seas, or even a sharp rap against the dock could crack the hose or whatever it's attached to, whichever is weaker. That doesn't mean you can't use it...it just gives hard pipe very limited application: long straight runs are the only places it should be used. Trying to use it throughout, with bends and elbows at every turn creates bumps, nooks and crannies that trap solids and paper and can lead to clogs. So when you consider all that's involved, coupled with the need to use some hose anyway, most people don't think it's worth the gain to use just a few pieces of it.
most sanitation hose permeated within 3-5 years...in extreme cases in which sewage was left to "ferment" in the hose, in a matter of weeks (my own did in less than 2 months). All hose is water-absorbent to some degree...the thicker the hose, the tighter the molecules, the more water resistant it is--which is why the softer easer to bend it, is the faster it tends to fail. It was believed until recently that double-walled rubber hose was the most water resistant, but Practical Sailor tests showed that black rubber hose sanitation hose permeates even faster than top quality white flexible PVC hose. Rubber industrial grade or exhaust hose is even more water/odor absorbent than that. SeaLand solved the problem by encasing hose in a "skin" of material that's virtually 100% impermeable. Rigid PVC--hard pipe--is 100% water and odor impermeable...but it doesn't bend at all, requiring inline fittings to go where even the stiffest hose would bend easily enough to make it with no problems. And, because it doesn't flex or bend much, it's necessary to "soft couple" hard pipe to any rigid object--tank, pump, toilet, through-hull--with about a foot of hose that acts as a shock absorber. Otherwise, heavy seas, or even a sharp rap against the dock could crack the hose or whatever it's attached to, whichever is weaker. That doesn't mean you can't use it...it just gives hard pipe very limited application: long straight runs are the only places it should be used. Trying to use it throughout, with bends and elbows at every turn creates bumps, nooks and crannies that trap solids and paper and can lead to clogs. So when you consider all that's involved, coupled with the need to use some hose anyway, most people don't think it's worth the gain to use just a few pieces of it.
T
Tom Ehmke
Get the SeaLand hose, Jerry.
If you want a long-term solution to the odor problem, you really have no other choice. Get out the old billfold and pay what SeaLand wants for this excellent hose and put your mind to rest. Steve Larson and I (two Lake Erie sailors) just had this discussion with Peggy and at her recommendation, we contacted SeaLand at 1-800-321-9886. Their sales rep referred us to a local supplier who will ship any lengths (no minimum purchase) to us. The cost is high at $8.89/ft., but if you want to put the smell to bed (bad, bad, mixed metaphor), get the SeaLand hose.
If you want a long-term solution to the odor problem, you really have no other choice. Get out the old billfold and pay what SeaLand wants for this excellent hose and put your mind to rest. Steve Larson and I (two Lake Erie sailors) just had this discussion with Peggy and at her recommendation, we contacted SeaLand at 1-800-321-9886. Their sales rep referred us to a local supplier who will ship any lengths (no minimum purchase) to us. The cost is high at $8.89/ft., but if you want to put the smell to bed (bad, bad, mixed metaphor), get the SeaLand hose.
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