Hose dilemma

[Roger Long]

Back in 2005 when I first refitted the boat and didn't know any better or that there was a Headmistess, I replaced the OP's water hose head plumbing (did it ever stink!) with Shields Vac Sanitation hose. I've had no hint of odor except when I get a bit behind on cleaning around the head itself. However, I'll be far, far, away this summer and it would be a bad time for the odor to start coming through.

After cutting out the Shields, I went out to pick up some Trident 202 and found that they had neglected to tell me that they would only selll me the full 25 foot box length. I'll solve that problem eventually but, while I was there I took a good look at the hose.

The holes for the hose in my boat were cut to just barely fit the Shields and the curves are tight. Enlarging the holes means removing the head, which means installing an access plate in the head compartment floor to get at the bolts (evidently they bolted it in before installing the head interior liner), and removing the holding tank. A lot of work and the Trident may not make the bend anyway.

Is the Trident so much better, given my cool climate and decent experience with the Shields, that I should do all this? Putting another piece of Shields in 2 - 3 years from now as well as this year would be a lot less work.

Of course, if I do go south next fall, the heat in the Bahamas could change the equasion.

What do you think?

 

[Stu Jackson]

I hear ya, Roger

On our boat, which we bought when it was 12 years old and have owned for the past 11 years, the OEM black, poor performing (i.e., cheapest for the manufacturer to use) hose from the head to the holding tank is still there. With NO smells. That's because we always flush through. So, you have a choice: try your hard way which may not work as you describe, or keep flushing through like Peggiie recommends, and keep what you have. If it ain't broke...

BTW, the very first boat we ever bareboated on in the BVIs in 1986 was your Endeavor 32. We really liked it, and remember it very well.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

We should have talked before you started this project

'Cuz I could have steered you to source --the sbo.com chandlery right here--who sells Trident 101 and 102 (whiich I'm pretty sure is what you actually bought, 'cuz Trident doesn't show they have a 202 on their website) cut to length, and prob'ly for less than you paid/ft.

The toilet is mounted with lag bolts...no nuts (that applies to ALL toilets, btw). So IF you have to remove the toilet, you don't have to do anything to remove the mounting bolts except back 'em out.

Yes, Trident 101/102 IS that much better. If you have tight bends, the right way to do it, whether the hose will fit through the holes in the bulkheads or not, is to break the hose and use inline raidus fittings. Forcing a hose--especially heating it--to make it bend tighter than it wants to bend willingly will result in kinks and can damage the hose.

All that said, it doesn't appear to me that there was any need to replace your hoses...they didn't stink. Any odor right around the toilet ONLY when you neglected your housekeeping chores was prob'ly due to decaying sea water in the head intake and channel in the rim of the bowl. Or possibly from the head discharge hose if it's been more than a year since you replaced the joker valve in the toilet. So if I were you, I'd return the coil of Trident, put the hose you removed back, flush a bucketful of clean fresh water laced with white vinegar through the toilet (disconnect the intake hose from thru-hull and stick it in the bucket, don't just pour into the bowl), replace the joker valve in your toilet. lube the toilet pump with teflon grease...and call it done for this year.

 

[Roger Long]

'Cuz I could have steered you to source --the sbo.com chandlery right here--who sells Trident 101 and 102

Not to worry. No way I would have bought a whole coil of 102 (202 was a typo). SBO is my first stop for a cut to length piece.

The hose probably would have been OK but I'm doing stuff proactively because I want to deal with as little as possible when I get to Newfoundland. The threads of the elbow to the tank also needed attention and I had to cut the hose to get it off anyway and there wasn't enough length to put it back on. I had more faith in Teflon tape than is warranted when I first started messing about with boats.

I'll double check my head. The fastenings don't look like lag bolts and they did a lot of funny things when they built these boats. Sounds like it's worth removing one way or the other.

I was thinking of running PVC through the difficult area with just hose at the tank and head. I was thinking though that the inevitible grooves and shoulders at fittings and joints would make the line more clog prone and the single hose length with gentle turns would be more reliable. Is this not a concern?

This is an uphill line and vigerous pumping sort of clears it but it usually has standing, uhm, water, in it.

 

[Ron20324]

You may well find that the mounting bolts are, indeed, placed from below. On two boats I found it a good idea to loosen all the nuts, then between the bowl and floor, tie the bolts to each other. Take the nuts then the head off and you can replace the string with rubber bands- or epoxy the bolts so they stand up straight. I accidently let a bolt slip and it fell into the bolt hole in the floor but not all the way down. With a straw and suction I could raise it back up. Once the 4 nuts are on the bolts, remove whatever you have tied them with.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Ron describes a very good technique

but just because they may have done it wrong to begin with doesn't mean you have to continue it. If you can drop the bolts into an accessible area, get them out and use lag bolts from above. Then you won't have to worry about the danged "bolts from below" the next time you have to service or replace your head. KISS.

 

[Roger Long]

Wrap Up

I decided to stay with the Shields Vac hose I'm currently using. I've had no problems and Peggie confirmed that it's not as much of an issue in my cool climate and cold waters.

I did however, reconfigure the hose run to make it easier to clear the lines and replace the hose. Replacing 25 bucks worth of hose every 2 - 3 years won't be a big deal now even if I don't have such good luck with the replacement hose.

It turned out to be an even better decision than I thought. The Trident has a much larger OD and even 1/16" more diameter would have required that I move the head which turns out to be bolted down with no access I can figure out to the nuts beneath. I also had to cross the intake and discharge lines from the tank because there wasn't clearance for the elbow and it EXACTLY fit. Talk about luck. I couldn't have made the Trident work there without major changes to the tank.

Full story here:

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/09Plumbing.htm