I read a lot about hollow rudder and stainless steel failure lately. (e.g. Cruising world 12/06) After haulout last month I drilled three small holes on the bottom of the rudder and got 1/2 gallon of water out. It is next to impossible to seal the rudder as it is under water and a shaft goes into it. Since stainless steel needs oxygen to prevent corrosion, enclosed space will be depleted of oxygen. Would it be better just to leave the drain holes than pluging them in the spring and drilling them again in the fall? Any suggestion?
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water in the rudder
my rudder also had water ingress. I drilled about 10 holes towards the bottom and let about the same amount of water pour out ( I also drilled a hole towards the top to allow the water to flow freely). I believe that the water is coming in around where the shaft enters the rudder. It is "suposed" to be sealed. In the spring, I will be dropping my rudder a few inches and re-sealing the rudder shaft with some 5200. Then I will plug the holes with epoxy,fair and re paint. Should be just like new Mike C. O'28 "Da Capo"
my rudder also had water ingress. I drilled about 10 holes towards the bottom and let about the same amount of water pour out ( I also drilled a hole towards the top to allow the water to flow freely). I believe that the water is coming in around where the shaft enters the rudder. It is "suposed" to be sealed. In the spring, I will be dropping my rudder a few inches and re-sealing the rudder shaft with some 5200. Then I will plug the holes with epoxy,fair and re paint. Should be just like new Mike C. O'28 "Da Capo"
If you should mix a large batch of resin based
filler and pump it into the bottom holes that you have drilled in the rudder, plugging the holes as the filler starts to come out you can completely fill the cavity. Of course you must get the rudder dry on the inside first. Start by draining as you have , then attach a wet-dry vacuum cleaner to the bottom holes and let it run for several hours. The end of the hose should be dry when you stop. If you choose this approach I will tell you how to rig for pumping the resin in. Ross
filler and pump it into the bottom holes that you have drilled in the rudder, plugging the holes as the filler starts to come out you can completely fill the cavity. Of course you must get the rudder dry on the inside first. Start by draining as you have , then attach a wet-dry vacuum cleaner to the bottom holes and let it run for several hours. The end of the hose should be dry when you stop. If you choose this approach I will tell you how to rig for pumping the resin in. Ross
Fill the cavity
Hi Ross, I have left the drain holes open since haulout last month. The rudder should be completely dry by now. I am interested to "pump" something in to fill the cavity in the spring before the splash. I have air compressor and able to fabricate some device to assist injection. What kind and how thick (or thin) the resin filler in order to be able to pump thru? Do I need to drill a few holes on the top to let air out? Thanks..
Hi Ross, I have left the drain holes open since haulout last month. The rudder should be completely dry by now. I am interested to "pump" something in to fill the cavity in the spring before the splash. I have air compressor and able to fabricate some device to assist injection. What kind and how thick (or thin) the resin filler in order to be able to pump thru? Do I need to drill a few holes on the top to let air out? Thanks..
Yes you need holes spaced about 3 inches apart from
the bottom to the top. the mix should be like gravy or just a little thicker, it has to flow through a short pipe. prepare a tank from 4 inch pvc pipe reduced top and bottom for threaded fittings. You will attach a hose to the bottom and will thread that into the bottom hole in the rudder. on the top of the tank you want to connect you air compressor line with a push on, release off, valve and with the pressure regulated to less than 10 psi. Mix the resin in a separate container with a minimum of catylist. You don't want this to gell too soon and you DON'T want it to get HOT. Mix a little first and check your gell time. With everything ready including enough plugs for all of the holes, mix the resin, add the filler, pour it into the tank with a funnel,(you don't want it running down the outside for the tank). Mount the tank so that the bottom of the tank and the rudder are about even. Start pushing a little air watch the progress and plug the holes as the filler starts to run out. when it is full, stop the air push and plug the top hole. then you can disconnect from the bottom and plug that hole. When everything is hard grind off the plugs and put a glass patch on each hole and fair everything. If you find that you didn't mix enough filler, just let everything harden and drill a couple of test holes to find the top of the fill and start over from there. You may have to make a new tank because polyester resin bonds to pvc. If you choose to use epoxy get the slowest hardener you can find and work on a very cool day. Big batches of epoxy react faster than small batchs. When I did the keel/ballast void on Bietzpadlin I used empty caulk tubes from Jamestown Distributors and mixed small batches of filler and drilled a lot of holes. That is the method that I would use again. A half gallon would only be about six tubes. If you use this method mix the resin in zipper weight freezer bags and snip the corner off to fill the caulking tube.
the bottom to the top. the mix should be like gravy or just a little thicker, it has to flow through a short pipe. prepare a tank from 4 inch pvc pipe reduced top and bottom for threaded fittings. You will attach a hose to the bottom and will thread that into the bottom hole in the rudder. on the top of the tank you want to connect you air compressor line with a push on, release off, valve and with the pressure regulated to less than 10 psi. Mix the resin in a separate container with a minimum of catylist. You don't want this to gell too soon and you DON'T want it to get HOT. Mix a little first and check your gell time. With everything ready including enough plugs for all of the holes, mix the resin, add the filler, pour it into the tank with a funnel,(you don't want it running down the outside for the tank). Mount the tank so that the bottom of the tank and the rudder are about even. Start pushing a little air watch the progress and plug the holes as the filler starts to run out. when it is full, stop the air push and plug the top hole. then you can disconnect from the bottom and plug that hole. When everything is hard grind off the plugs and put a glass patch on each hole and fair everything. If you find that you didn't mix enough filler, just let everything harden and drill a couple of test holes to find the top of the fill and start over from there. You may have to make a new tank because polyester resin bonds to pvc. If you choose to use epoxy get the slowest hardener you can find and work on a very cool day. Big batches of epoxy react faster than small batchs. When I did the keel/ballast void on Bietzpadlin I used empty caulk tubes from Jamestown Distributors and mixed small batches of filler and drilled a lot of holes. That is the method that I would use again. A half gallon would only be about six tubes. If you use this method mix the resin in zipper weight freezer bags and snip the corner off to fill the caulking tube.
Fill the rudder
Ross, I think I got the general idea. Just a few more questions: (1) What was the diameter of the holes? (2) "Holes spaced 3 inches apart from bottom to top" You meant on the side of the rudder? How far from the leading edge? (3) I think you meant the tank is hook up to a hole on the bottom of the rudder with a PVC hose and the resin is force-filled from the bottom to the top of the rudder. Is that correct? Thank you for sharing your experience.
Ross, I think I got the general idea. Just a few more questions: (1) What was the diameter of the holes? (2) "Holes spaced 3 inches apart from bottom to top" You meant on the side of the rudder? How far from the leading edge? (3) I think you meant the tank is hook up to a hole on the bottom of the rudder with a PVC hose and the resin is force-filled from the bottom to the top of the rudder. Is that correct? Thank you for sharing your experience.
When I used caulking tubes the holes were
5/16 inch. Because the filling I did was on a long keel with internal ballast I drilled a lot of holes. Like you I had to get rid of a lot of water. so I drilled holes along the lower sides (port and starboard) and worked my way up. When I had any doubt concerning whether or not a space was completely full I'd drill a test hole. I think I used close to three gallons of mixed resin and West system micro ballons. I know that I used more the 6 dozen caulk tubes. The keel looked like it had measles before I was through. Yes you fill from the bottom. That way you flood the cavity and don't trap voids. You will have more control if you use the caulking tube method. Edit to add: Empty caulk cartridge from Jamestown distributors 1.36 each or 29.80 per box of 24.
5/16 inch. Because the filling I did was on a long keel with internal ballast I drilled a lot of holes. Like you I had to get rid of a lot of water. so I drilled holes along the lower sides (port and starboard) and worked my way up. When I had any doubt concerning whether or not a space was completely full I'd drill a test hole. I think I used close to three gallons of mixed resin and West system micro ballons. I know that I used more the 6 dozen caulk tubes. The keel looked like it had measles before I was through. Yes you fill from the bottom. That way you flood the cavity and don't trap voids. You will have more control if you use the caulking tube method. Edit to add: Empty caulk cartridge from Jamestown distributors 1.36 each or 29.80 per box of 24.
Drill, Drain and Reseal Next Spring
Seems like an easy fix to me. Drill plenty of holes everywhere. Allow to drain and dry out. Fill all holes next Spring when it's warm. Put 2-3 good layers of Interprotect and it will last for years Have a great Christmas!
Seems like an easy fix to me. Drill plenty of holes everywhere. Allow to drain and dry out. Fill all holes next Spring when it's warm. Put 2-3 good layers of Interprotect and it will last for years Have a great Christmas!
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