installed a new head, tank, and plumbing this winter. ran the 1" vent about 5' horizontal then had to turn up about 10" before i terminated to a thru hull located near the bow. only used the head for the past 3-4 weeks. was down at the boat last week and the tank was smelling pretty bad. because of the vertical rise in the vent line, am i not getting the circulation i need in the tank which peggie talks about in her book? would i be better off installing another vent line? it would run almost exactly as the first?
Holding tank vent issue
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Pump-out often
I have taken a hint from a friend that is now a snow-bird, sailing south for the winter, back north in the spring. He suggested Fabuloso. No, you won't find it at your favorite marine store, but probably at a grocery store or Wal-Mart. It is located in the cleaning supplies section and looks like brightly colored soft drink beverages. It is a cleaning product that smells very nice. About a cup goes in after pump-out. We don't wait for the tank to fill before pumping-out. We wait one to two weeks if we haven't been cruising. While cruising, it is every three days or so if we use the head a lot. The holding tank area and head do not have that nasty smell when I used the other products, including the very expensive stuff that is in her book. I wonder how many production sailboats actually have the large vent hoses run at the correct angle to a proper sized thru-hull? I do the best I can with what I have and make sure the vent is clear of spiders or any other blocking stuff. I also use a spray recommended by the Head-Mistress that works great on odor in the air and in the holding tank area. That is expensive but works great. Sorry I can't remember the name, something like Aire--- ? Good luck in this never ending subject.
I have taken a hint from a friend that is now a snow-bird, sailing south for the winter, back north in the spring. He suggested Fabuloso. No, you won't find it at your favorite marine store, but probably at a grocery store or Wal-Mart. It is located in the cleaning supplies section and looks like brightly colored soft drink beverages. It is a cleaning product that smells very nice. About a cup goes in after pump-out. We don't wait for the tank to fill before pumping-out. We wait one to two weeks if we haven't been cruising. While cruising, it is every three days or so if we use the head a lot. The holding tank area and head do not have that nasty smell when I used the other products, including the very expensive stuff that is in her book. I wonder how many production sailboats actually have the large vent hoses run at the correct angle to a proper sized thru-hull? I do the best I can with what I have and make sure the vent is clear of spiders or any other blocking stuff. I also use a spray recommended by the Head-Mistress that works great on odor in the air and in the holding tank area. That is expensive but works great. Sorry I can't remember the name, something like Aire--- ? Good luck in this never ending subject.
Questions:
When you say the tank is smelling pretty bad, do you mean the area around the tank inside the boat? Or odor out the tank vent when the toilet is flushed? If you mean odor out the vent, what tank product are you using in the tank? What are the directions for its use, and have you followed them? When was the last time you added any? How long did the boat sat without any use since you added any?
When you say the tank is smelling pretty bad, do you mean the area around the tank inside the boat? Or odor out the tank vent when the toilet is flushed? If you mean odor out the vent, what tank product are you using in the tank? What are the directions for its use, and have you followed them? When was the last time you added any? How long did the boat sat without any use since you added any?
The tank is in the v-berth
and the v-berth smells most, then i permeates throughout the boat. we had only used it 7-8 times before it started smelling. last weekend it was smelling pretty bad. the boat had been sitting about 2-2.5 weeks. i read your book again, thought maybe since the vent went vertical it wasn't working correctly so in the mean time, i added about a cup or two of white vinegar to the head and pumped it in. it seemed to help when i went down this past thursday. today, we took it out and by the end of the sail, the smell seemed to be stronger than at the beginning of the sail. i smelt near the vent when i was at the dock last weekend and i didn't notice the odor. should i check for odor when i'm pumping the head?
and the v-berth smells most, then i permeates throughout the boat. we had only used it 7-8 times before it started smelling. last weekend it was smelling pretty bad. the boat had been sitting about 2-2.5 weeks. i read your book again, thought maybe since the vent went vertical it wasn't working correctly so in the mean time, i added about a cup or two of white vinegar to the head and pumped it in. it seemed to help when i went down this past thursday. today, we took it out and by the end of the sail, the smell seemed to be stronger than at the beginning of the sail. i smelt near the vent when i was at the dock last weekend and i didn't notice the odor. should i check for odor when i'm pumping the head?
Sounds like permeated hoses
The odor is not coming from inside the tank, nor has your tank permeated, but I'd bet that your pumpout hose has. Yes, I know you replaced the hoses last winter (did you replace ALL of 'em?), but if you tried to save money by going with cheaper hose, it CAN permeate very quickly. Happened on my own boat...new #148 white hose permeated in less than 90 days. Unfortunately, new hose is the only cure. I dunno how many times I've posted--AND it's in my book--that the holding tank, unless it's leaking, is never the source of odor INSIDE the boat...'cuz odor from inside the tank has only one place to go: out the tank vent line. So nothing you do to the tank or tank venting will cure odor INSIDE the boat! The sources of odor INSIDE the boat are sanitation hoses, wet dirty bilges and/or sumps, trapped water below the sole...or any sea life that may have gotten caught and has died and decayed in the channel in the rim of the toilet bowl (but that odor would be confined to the head, it would not permeate the whole boat). So do the hot wet rag test on your sanitation hoses...I'd bet money they're your culprit...at least the pumpout hose, anyway. If I'm wrong, check any y-valves and/or macerator pump for leaks. There is a "band aid" that'll get you through the summer: wrap the hoses in Saran Wrap (only the Saran brand will work, so don't use Glad or anything else). Wrap 'em tightly and seal the ends with electrical tape.
The odor is not coming from inside the tank, nor has your tank permeated, but I'd bet that your pumpout hose has. Yes, I know you replaced the hoses last winter (did you replace ALL of 'em?), but if you tried to save money by going with cheaper hose, it CAN permeate very quickly. Happened on my own boat...new #148 white hose permeated in less than 90 days. Unfortunately, new hose is the only cure. I dunno how many times I've posted--AND it's in my book--that the holding tank, unless it's leaking, is never the source of odor INSIDE the boat...'cuz odor from inside the tank has only one place to go: out the tank vent line. So nothing you do to the tank or tank venting will cure odor INSIDE the boat! The sources of odor INSIDE the boat are sanitation hoses, wet dirty bilges and/or sumps, trapped water below the sole...or any sea life that may have gotten caught and has died and decayed in the channel in the rim of the toilet bowl (but that odor would be confined to the head, it would not permeate the whole boat). So do the hot wet rag test on your sanitation hoses...I'd bet money they're your culprit...at least the pumpout hose, anyway. If I'm wrong, check any y-valves and/or macerator pump for leaks. There is a "band aid" that'll get you through the summer: wrap the hoses in Saran Wrap (only the Saran brand will work, so don't use Glad or anything else). Wrap 'em tightly and seal the ends with electrical tape.
i replaced the entire
plumbing system this winter. the hoses i used are trident sanitation hose. i haven't pumped out yet so could the pumpout still be the problem or would it most likely be from the head to tank? i'll try the wet rag trick tomorrow. do you think i should install a second 1" vent to the bow to get some cross ventilation? i also have a pumping question. my hose from head to tank is about 4-5'. after going to the bathroom, about how many pumps should it take to get the waste from the bowl to the tank. also, if there is still waste in the piping, when i swtich to dry and pump the bowl dry does any of the air when dry pumping help push the waste thru the piping into the tank? by the way, thanks for the help. the book helped with getting rid of the smell from the fresh water tanks.
plumbing system this winter. the hoses i used are trident sanitation hose. i haven't pumped out yet so could the pumpout still be the problem or would it most likely be from the head to tank? i'll try the wet rag trick tomorrow. do you think i should install a second 1" vent to the bow to get some cross ventilation? i also have a pumping question. my hose from head to tank is about 4-5'. after going to the bathroom, about how many pumps should it take to get the waste from the bowl to the tank. also, if there is still waste in the piping, when i swtich to dry and pump the bowl dry does any of the air when dry pumping help push the waste thru the piping into the tank? by the way, thanks for the help. the book helped with getting rid of the smell from the fresh water tanks.
Which Trident hose did you use?
101/102 is just about bullet proof...but Trident 148 isn't...in fact, the hose that permeated on my own boat in less than 90 days. One more time: Installing another vent will not solve your problem (odor INSIDE the boat)...and not needed if you aren't getting any odor out the vent when you flush. Any toilet that's working anywhere near spec, can move bowl contents at least 6' in the dry mode...So if your tank is less than 6' from the toilet, you should be able to pump bowl contents ALL the way to the tank in the dry mode, using the wet mode only to wet the bowl ahead of use and bring in some water to rinse out the head discharge hose...just a few pumps...then switch back to dry to pump the rinse water all the way to the tank. How many pump strokes will it take? That varies...some toilets push harder than others...how fast you pump (slower more deliberate pumping is more efficient than fast pumping)...whether you push the piston ALL the way down and ALL the way back up each time... So you're gonna have to figure that one out for yourself. Put someone at the tank to listen for contents falling in while you pump the toilet, counting the strokes. Do it several times to get an average. Then reverse roles...you at the tank while someone else pumps the toilet. You don't have to fill up the tank to do this...pour a large cupful of water into the bowl and start pumping in the dry mode.
101/102 is just about bullet proof...but Trident 148 isn't...in fact, the hose that permeated on my own boat in less than 90 days. One more time: Installing another vent will not solve your problem (odor INSIDE the boat)...and not needed if you aren't getting any odor out the vent when you flush. Any toilet that's working anywhere near spec, can move bowl contents at least 6' in the dry mode...So if your tank is less than 6' from the toilet, you should be able to pump bowl contents ALL the way to the tank in the dry mode, using the wet mode only to wet the bowl ahead of use and bring in some water to rinse out the head discharge hose...just a few pumps...then switch back to dry to pump the rinse water all the way to the tank. How many pump strokes will it take? That varies...some toilets push harder than others...how fast you pump (slower more deliberate pumping is more efficient than fast pumping)...whether you push the piston ALL the way down and ALL the way back up each time... So you're gonna have to figure that one out for yourself. Put someone at the tank to listen for contents falling in while you pump the toilet, counting the strokes. Do it several times to get an average. Then reverse roles...you at the tank while someone else pumps the toilet. You don't have to fill up the tank to do this...pour a large cupful of water into the bowl and start pumping in the dry mode.
i used the trident
101 from the head to the tank and from the tank to the pumpout. i used the sealand odorsafe hose from the thru-hull to the bowl and for the tank vent. i think i'll try the wet rag on the vent pipe. if it is the vent pipe, should i switch to the trident 148 or use the 101.
101 from the head to the tank and from the tank to the pumpout. i used the sealand odorsafe hose from the thru-hull to the bowl and for the tank vent. i think i'll try the wet rag on the vent pipe. if it is the vent pipe, should i switch to the trident 148 or use the 101.
Vent and head intake line cannot be OdorSafe hose
It may be SeaLand hose--SeaLand does have hose that isn't OdorSfafe, but OdorSafe-and Trident 101/102 too--are only available in 1.5"...your vent and head intake aren't. I doubt that the head intake hose has permeated, but the vent line may have. A couple more thoughts have occurred to me: When was the last time you cleaned your bilges, sumps and chain locker--really CLEANED 'em and flushed all the dirty water out, not just dumped something into 'em and called it done? A wet dirty bilge or sump can smell like a sewer in hot weather. Or there may be trapped water under the sole in the bow of your boat that's seeped in from the chain locker. Describe your odor in as much detail as you can...is it sharp/sweet/sour/yucky? Soft/swampy/sewerish? Sharp chemical? Something else?
It may be SeaLand hose--SeaLand does have hose that isn't OdorSfafe, but OdorSafe-and Trident 101/102 too--are only available in 1.5"...your vent and head intake aren't. I doubt that the head intake hose has permeated, but the vent line may have. A couple more thoughts have occurred to me: When was the last time you cleaned your bilges, sumps and chain locker--really CLEANED 'em and flushed all the dirty water out, not just dumped something into 'em and called it done? A wet dirty bilge or sump can smell like a sewer in hot weather. Or there may be trapped water under the sole in the bow of your boat that's seeped in from the chain locker. Describe your odor in as much detail as you can...is it sharp/sweet/sour/yucky? Soft/swampy/sewerish? Sharp chemical? Something else?
i don't think its
the bilge. i cleaned it pretty good over the winter then painted the whole thing with bilgekote. the chain locker is on the deck. you open the door on deck and it only drops down about a foot. the v-berth is pretty much contained. it doesn't drain into the bilge. and it's been dry all winter and up to now. the only water in it is some i spilt yesterday filling one of the fresh water tanks. i would say the odor is sour swampy. it doesn't smell like sewerage. the fresh water, before i cleaned the tanks, smelt like rotten cucumbers. the holding tank smell is somewhat the same but more foul.
the bilge. i cleaned it pretty good over the winter then painted the whole thing with bilgekote. the chain locker is on the deck. you open the door on deck and it only drops down about a foot. the v-berth is pretty much contained. it doesn't drain into the bilge. and it's been dry all winter and up to now. the only water in it is some i spilt yesterday filling one of the fresh water tanks. i would say the odor is sour swampy. it doesn't smell like sewerage. the fresh water, before i cleaned the tanks, smelt like rotten cucumbers. the holding tank smell is somewhat the same but more foul.
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