Holding tank pump causing odor

[Jsailor]

Hi Peggy,

What a great source of information on marine sanitation maintenance. I must admit I thought I was doing all the right things to maintain the system on my boat, however, now I realize the mistakes that were made after reading your suggestions to other posts. I've placed an order for your book.

I have a 2000 J/120 that I purchased new and the head odor has been getting worse each year for the past 3 years. I've tried K.O., Sealand and Odorless (one brand each year) with no improvement. I've rinsed and pumped the holding tank. I've replaced the hose from the head (Raritan PHII) to the Y valve and the section from the Y valve to the holding tank. I also replaced the vent hose with no effect. The odor was strongest under the cabinet in the head where most of the hose sections are joined and the holding tank pump is located. Last month I removed and threw all the hose away before I read about the wet towel test. I got frustrated and removed the entire system (tank, hoses, T fittings, pump, head) in an effort to get at the source. I rebuilt the head at the same time and took the Guzzler/Bosworth model 500 manual holding tank pump home to clean. I took the pump apart and completely cleaned all the parts and put it back together. It's been three weeks now and the pump still smells aweful. I left it outside so the house wouldn't smell hoping it would get better. I'm now wondering if that was the only source all along. Given what I've read so far, I plan to replace all the hose with Trident 102. The pump seems to be the weak link in the system though. It's plastic but has rubber bellows. This is the factory set-up but does this seem like a quality design? I've been using the pump a couple times a season to empty the holding tank when outside the designated no discharge zone and I now realize I haven't thoroughly cleaned the hose by pumping enough clean water through that section of the system. Before I reinstall everything, I want to make sure I can prevent the odor from returning. Also, I took all fabric items off the boat as they absorbed the odor (sails, cushions, lifejackets, etc) and took them home. Two days after storing this stuff in the basement, I opened the basement door and was hit by the same horrible smell. I plan to wash all the cushion covers and I purchased some PureAyre but haven't tried it yet. I keep my boat in bristol condition but the smell has gotten so bad that my wife won't spend the night on the boat any more until I get the system fixed. Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers

 

[sailingdog]

Just curious, how well vented is your holding tank? Also, do you flush with raw water or fresh water from the potable water system?

If the holding tank isn't well vented, it could be the source of the odors, since the anaerobic bacteria are the nasty smell producers, and having insufficient venting on the tank is a primary cause of them being dominant.

The other major cause of odors in a head, if it isn't permeated hoses, is the flush water. Using raw water for the flush often leaves the head and hoses smelling pretty badly as the microorganisms in the water die and decompose. Flushing with fresh water from the potable water tank, usually via the head sink, is a good way to prevent this. This requires the head drain be plumbed into a diverter valve that goes to the head pump intake. The sink acts as a giant vacuum break and prevents the head from contaminating the potable water system.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Two suggestions (and a few corrections)

If the pump stinks, it's a pretty safe bet that it's the source of your odor. It also means one or more of the rubber parts in it, which are degradable and should be replaced about every 5 years, are prob'ly leaking. But first--assuming that you've already cleaned it--take it apart again, toss all the rubber parts, and "treat" every surface in it and on it with PureAyre.

Put the PureAyre in a pump garden spray jug and spray every surface, nook and cranny in every area on the boat that stinks.

Once you've done all that and cleaned all your soft goods and then sprayed all them with PureAyre, the odor should be gone.

And btw...if your washable sheets, towels etc stink, soak 'em in the washer in COLD water and a pint (2 cups) of PureAye overnight...THEN run the spin cycle to empty the water and run the load with detergent as usual. My 93 yr old dad, who's been in a nursing home for more than two years, has become incontinent. I do his laundry at home, and that's the only thing I've found that will completely eliminate the horrible odor from his clothes that have sat in the hamper in a plastic bag for several days. Bleach didn't work...Oxyclean didn't work...I had some PureAyre and decided to try it desperation ..it WORKS! And if it'll eliminate the odor from my dad's clothes, it'll take it out any odor in the washable soft goods from your boat.

Forget trying to solve this problem by improving tank ventilation or trying different tank treatments...'cuz (if I've posted this once, I've posted it a zillion times) odor from inside the tank has only one place to go: out the tank vent to gas everyone with range OUTSIDE the boat. So unless a tank is leaking it cannot be the sorce of odor INSIDE the boat. The source has to be hoses, trapped stagnant water below the sole or a y-valve or pump that's leaking. Or wet dirty bilges and sumps in desperate need of a real cleaning that includes flushing all the dirty water out instead of only dumping bilge cleaner into it...a wet dirty bilge is a primordial soup that can smell like a swamp or even a sewer if neglected.

Nor can stagnant sea water that's trapped in the head intake create odor anywhere but in the head as it's flushed out of the head intake line and toilet pump into the bowl. It's not a source of hose permeation, it's a localized odor IN THE HEAD that only occurs when the toilet is flushed the first time or two after the boat has been sitting. Re-routing the head intake to tee it into the head sink drain is a good and inexpensive solution to the problem, but the sink does not act as vacuum breaker to protect the potable water system because the head intake is connected to the sink DRAIN line, not to any potable water supply line.

 

[Jsailor]

Your response seems right on Peggy. The odor is not from the raw water and the waste pump did show signs of a slight leak when I took it apart. I didn't realize that it needed to be rebuilt and it's now eight years old. Because the black diaphram is visible and not completely enclosed in the Delrin case I wondered if it was designed as a bilge pump and not as a waste tranfer pump, so I looked on the Bosworth website. It's listed for use as both bilge and waste transfer, so I should be able to rebuild it. There's no question that it contributed to the odor if it's not the sole source. It stinks! (still)

Your suggestions on how to remove the smell on all the soft goods is a huge help as well. That was the next project on my mind. The stuff has been off the boat for a month and it still has a very strong odor. I was surprised how much stronger the odor is now that it's off the boat.

The bilges and the rest of the boat are spotless, so this should solve the problem.

Thank you for the advice and I'm sorry to hear about your dad.

Best wishes.....

 

[Claus]

In the post above you mention the smell that only occurs when the toilet is flushed the first time or two after the boat has been sitting. I started experiensing this in a new boat (Bavaria 37 with Jabsco head) after one year of use. Any ways to avoid this? I sometimes sea little out flushed waste water coming in again when I try to pump clean the bowl. As this is a standar construction on a serie built boat, the hosing etc should be right.