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Tank Level
Del, We have a plastic tank. We just pop the bulkhead at the rear of the stateroom and look at it. Not sure what you do if it is not somewhat transparent. Perhaps a stick? ..... never run out of new sticks!! I know that most get by with gauges that do not work or are inaccurate. I'm disappointed that something as critical as how much water is left and how much longer before I have to find a pumpout is not better accomodated by excellent instrumentation. Getting that bulhead out is not the end of the world, we just have to carry all the bedding, pillows, etc out to the salon, remove one mattress and then it actually comes out pretty easy. But lets face it, why should we have to do that when there is a gauge sitting right next to the electrical panel. It was not too many years ago that the aviation community accepted the same poor quality and accuracy in monitoring instrumentation. That has changed and it will be nice when the boating industry comes into the later 20th century as it relates to these instruments. Does anyone know of accurate sending units that will drive the already installed Hunter gauges, or do we again get to rewire what Hunter compromised at the start? My brand new Hunter 290 reads empty on the waste tank when half full. This from day one. However, to give them their due, full is full. Dan Jonas
Del, We have a plastic tank. We just pop the bulkhead at the rear of the stateroom and look at it. Not sure what you do if it is not somewhat transparent. Perhaps a stick? ..... never run out of new sticks!! I know that most get by with gauges that do not work or are inaccurate. I'm disappointed that something as critical as how much water is left and how much longer before I have to find a pumpout is not better accomodated by excellent instrumentation. Getting that bulhead out is not the end of the world, we just have to carry all the bedding, pillows, etc out to the salon, remove one mattress and then it actually comes out pretty easy. But lets face it, why should we have to do that when there is a gauge sitting right next to the electrical panel. It was not too many years ago that the aviation community accepted the same poor quality and accuracy in monitoring instrumentation. That has changed and it will be nice when the boating industry comes into the later 20th century as it relates to these instruments. Does anyone know of accurate sending units that will drive the already installed Hunter gauges, or do we again get to rewire what Hunter compromised at the start? My brand new Hunter 290 reads empty on the waste tank when half full. This from day one. However, to give them their due, full is full. Dan Jonas
thanks for feedback
The problem with the 37 is that the tank is not transparent enough to determine level and it is mounted up behind the sink, access is very limited. I am considering cutting an access port in the top of the tank and installing some sort of float/guage.
The problem with the 37 is that the tank is not transparent enough to determine level and it is mounted up behind the sink, access is very limited. I am considering cutting an access port in the top of the tank and installing some sort of float/guage.
AcuGage doesn't go inside the tank...
It attaches to the outside of the tank and measures the resistance to read the level in the tank. Works on all materials except metal. The sender does have to go inside a metal tank, but unlike the float type senders, there's nothing to clog or fail. You can put up to 4 tanks, holding and/or water, on the same system. IMHO, it's the best tank level system on the planet. The mfr is Snake River Electronics (http://www.snake-river.org) The online store here carries it, and Dennis Firiello, their sales manager is always glad to answer questions about it...often checks here, and is VERY responsive to e-mail. The online store here carries
It attaches to the outside of the tank and measures the resistance to read the level in the tank. Works on all materials except metal. The sender does have to go inside a metal tank, but unlike the float type senders, there's nothing to clog or fail. You can put up to 4 tanks, holding and/or water, on the same system. IMHO, it's the best tank level system on the planet. The mfr is Snake River Electronics (http://www.snake-river.org) The online store here carries it, and Dennis Firiello, their sales manager is always glad to answer questions about it...often checks here, and is VERY responsive to e-mail. The online store here carries
AccuGauge
Peggy, I have seen the Accugauge and it probably qualifies as a true high tech solution. But, will it drive the existing gauges, or do I start by riping them out, replacing nice teak work that has holes in it from teh removeed gauges, rewiring the tanks to gauge part of the boat and installing a new gauge(s). It is so so stupid to put things into a boat, car, airplane, house, etc. that do not work from the outset. I'll look into the AccuGauge further....wish that Hunter had previously. Dan Jonas
Peggy, I have seen the Accugauge and it probably qualifies as a true high tech solution. But, will it drive the existing gauges, or do I start by riping them out, replacing nice teak work that has holes in it from teh removeed gauges, rewiring the tanks to gauge part of the boat and installing a new gauge(s). It is so so stupid to put things into a boat, car, airplane, house, etc. that do not work from the outset. I'll look into the AccuGauge further....wish that Hunter had previously. Dan Jonas
You'll have to replace entirely
However, you'd have to do that to replace any gauge that fails--or most any other piece of equipment (ever see a new tachometer or knotmeter that's a match for the rest of the 10 year old gauges?)--so you really can't blame Hunter. If you bought the boat used, blame the previous owner(s) for not doing anything about it. If you bought the boat new, and the tank gauge hasn't worked from the outset, You certainly can't blame Hunter because you've finally decided to do something about it after several years instead of while the boat was still under warranty.
However, you'd have to do that to replace any gauge that fails--or most any other piece of equipment (ever see a new tachometer or knotmeter that's a match for the rest of the 10 year old gauges?)--so you really can't blame Hunter. If you bought the boat used, blame the previous owner(s) for not doing anything about it. If you bought the boat new, and the tank gauge hasn't worked from the outset, You certainly can't blame Hunter because you've finally decided to do something about it after several years instead of while the boat was still under warranty.
Gauge
Peggy, The boat is new and less than 2 months in the water. It is in warrantee. I made the point of them not working well because everyone tells me that they never work. Another words, give it up! What is the point of having it fixed in warrantee if it just is going to fail again in a matter of minutes, days or weeks. It takes a certain effort to get the boat back to the dealer each time (two days off work...one day each way)...certainly costs more than new AccuGauges. I do lay this at Hunters doorstep. My comments remain appropriate. Hunter should be using technology that works..at a minimum, particularly when that technology already exists. And, it seems that everyone here agrees that AccuGauge works. I'm still mystified by the overly protective nature of some of the Hunter Owners of Hunter. Hunter is a good size company playing in a world marketplace. In my business, they are what we call big boys. Someone once told me that if you want to play with the big boys you have to be a big boy. I always took that to mean it wasn't always going to go my way and success would depend upon how I played the game. Hunter CAN take the comments and do something good with them, and that is the spirit in which they are made. It is actually possible for someone to love their Hunter boat but be candid about the problems, concerns, or suggestions for improvement. And yes, we do communicate with our dealer. Dan Jonas
Peggy, The boat is new and less than 2 months in the water. It is in warrantee. I made the point of them not working well because everyone tells me that they never work. Another words, give it up! What is the point of having it fixed in warrantee if it just is going to fail again in a matter of minutes, days or weeks. It takes a certain effort to get the boat back to the dealer each time (two days off work...one day each way)...certainly costs more than new AccuGauges. I do lay this at Hunters doorstep. My comments remain appropriate. Hunter should be using technology that works..at a minimum, particularly when that technology already exists. And, it seems that everyone here agrees that AccuGauge works. I'm still mystified by the overly protective nature of some of the Hunter Owners of Hunter. Hunter is a good size company playing in a world marketplace. In my business, they are what we call big boys. Someone once told me that if you want to play with the big boys you have to be a big boy. I always took that to mean it wasn't always going to go my way and success would depend upon how I played the game. Hunter CAN take the comments and do something good with them, and that is the spirit in which they are made. It is actually possible for someone to love their Hunter boat but be candid about the problems, concerns, or suggestions for improvement. And yes, we do communicate with our dealer. Dan Jonas
Nothing should fail in less than a year...
Yes, the technology exists, but it costs a lot more and Hunter isn't Hinckley. If you want to spend upwards of 3/4 million $$ for a comparable size Hinckley, you can have $1200 toilets, $3500 winches, $400 tank gauges, and just about anything else you can think of as standard equipment...but not for the price of a Hunter. That doesn't mean however, that anything Hunter uses can be expected to fail in weeks or months...it should at least outlast the warranty period. If you've been told otherwise, you're listening to the wrong people. The Wema gauges Hunter has been using don't fail exactly...the senders become clogged, requiring removal and cleaning. But it takes about a year for that become necessary and it's about an annual event. No...it's not a fun job, which is why people are looking for a better alternative. But that's not YOUR problem...something in either the wiring or the unit is defective. Imo, it's a blessing it's happened so soon...because you can ask your dealer to replace them with AcuGages. You may have pay a little more for the upgrade instead of identical replacement, but at least the labor is covered, and they know how to take the boat apart and put it back together to do it, which can be a major challenge for most owners. As for your comments about "big boys," I can name several "big boys" who, in today's "bottom line uber alles" corporate philosophy, find it more cost effective to repair/replace under warranty than invest in higher quality materials, construction methods and quality control. You're far more likely to find higher quality goods coming out of a small privately held company these days--because the owners and COOs of smaller companies are people who take pride in what they do, not stockholders and highly paid bean counters whose 7-figure bonuses depend upon how much money they save the company. And in the wonderful world of boatbuilding, Brunswick is a big boy...ITT/Jabsco is big boy...Hunter (the entire Luhrs Group) is a very SMALL boy by comparison to either one. Btw...and fwiw, I don't happen to own a Hunter...I don't own a sailboat--I'm a stinkpotter. The sailors let me play with 'em 'cuz I have a very important socially redeeming quality: I can tell 'em what's wrong with their toilets, why their boats stink, and how to fix both problems.
Yes, the technology exists, but it costs a lot more and Hunter isn't Hinckley. If you want to spend upwards of 3/4 million $$ for a comparable size Hinckley, you can have $1200 toilets, $3500 winches, $400 tank gauges, and just about anything else you can think of as standard equipment...but not for the price of a Hunter. That doesn't mean however, that anything Hunter uses can be expected to fail in weeks or months...it should at least outlast the warranty period. If you've been told otherwise, you're listening to the wrong people. The Wema gauges Hunter has been using don't fail exactly...the senders become clogged, requiring removal and cleaning. But it takes about a year for that become necessary and it's about an annual event. No...it's not a fun job, which is why people are looking for a better alternative. But that's not YOUR problem...something in either the wiring or the unit is defective. Imo, it's a blessing it's happened so soon...because you can ask your dealer to replace them with AcuGages. You may have pay a little more for the upgrade instead of identical replacement, but at least the labor is covered, and they know how to take the boat apart and put it back together to do it, which can be a major challenge for most owners. As for your comments about "big boys," I can name several "big boys" who, in today's "bottom line uber alles" corporate philosophy, find it more cost effective to repair/replace under warranty than invest in higher quality materials, construction methods and quality control. You're far more likely to find higher quality goods coming out of a small privately held company these days--because the owners and COOs of smaller companies are people who take pride in what they do, not stockholders and highly paid bean counters whose 7-figure bonuses depend upon how much money they save the company. And in the wonderful world of boatbuilding, Brunswick is a big boy...ITT/Jabsco is big boy...Hunter (the entire Luhrs Group) is a very SMALL boy by comparison to either one. Btw...and fwiw, I don't happen to own a Hunter...I don't own a sailboat--I'm a stinkpotter. The sailors let me play with 'em 'cuz I have a very important socially redeeming quality: I can tell 'em what's wrong with their toilets, why their boats stink, and how to fix both problems.
Daniel - Call Wema for a new sensor
I had my sensor fail (out of warrenty), also. You can order a replacement Wema sensor for your boat from Hunter or directly from Wema -- for the same price. I ordered from Wema as a wanted some dialog with the manufacurer to find out why the dang thing failed so quickly, Here is what I learned. If you haven't looked at on of theses sensors, they are a long cylindar, long enough to reach the depth of your tank. They are made of hard plastic. The outer shell of the cylindar has holes in it. Apparently, "stuff" clogs the holes over time (too little TIME, IMHO) and causes the guage to give false readings or malfunction. Wema has added a nipple to the top of the sensing unit that allows you to hook a small hose up to it that will backflush the unit with water to flush out the "stuff" so that the unit will not clog. I purchased a new unit and the flushing kit. It took about an hour to unstall. I've had it in about a year with no problems. Installing the new sensing unit is a "humbling" experience. I agree with your point on guage failure. The failure rate on Hunter's OEM parts is too high, a point I have made many times on this forum. Mine failed on a new boat in the second year. My water tank sensor has failed as well, but I have decided I can live without a new one. There sensors aren't cheap! To be balanced and fair, I have discussed the high OEM failure rate with the guys in customer support. I get the impression from talking to them that they are definately concerned about the situation. I didn't sense it was "lip service." BUT, that conversation was over a year ago. OEM part failure rates should begin to improve OR one could then assume that we are getting "lip service" OR Hunter management is not willing to spend the extra money to buy quality parts. No one thought Ford and GM could build quality into their cars, either. But, it's obvious that they got religion on this subject. It took Japenese compition to move them to it, but they did fix the problem and so can Hunter. My next boat purchase will depend on how much progress I think they have made. That's my progative as a consumer. I hope this helps. Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
I had my sensor fail (out of warrenty), also. You can order a replacement Wema sensor for your boat from Hunter or directly from Wema -- for the same price. I ordered from Wema as a wanted some dialog with the manufacurer to find out why the dang thing failed so quickly, Here is what I learned. If you haven't looked at on of theses sensors, they are a long cylindar, long enough to reach the depth of your tank. They are made of hard plastic. The outer shell of the cylindar has holes in it. Apparently, "stuff" clogs the holes over time (too little TIME, IMHO) and causes the guage to give false readings or malfunction. Wema has added a nipple to the top of the sensing unit that allows you to hook a small hose up to it that will backflush the unit with water to flush out the "stuff" so that the unit will not clog. I purchased a new unit and the flushing kit. It took about an hour to unstall. I've had it in about a year with no problems. Installing the new sensing unit is a "humbling" experience. I agree with your point on guage failure. The failure rate on Hunter's OEM parts is too high, a point I have made many times on this forum. Mine failed on a new boat in the second year. My water tank sensor has failed as well, but I have decided I can live without a new one. There sensors aren't cheap! To be balanced and fair, I have discussed the high OEM failure rate with the guys in customer support. I get the impression from talking to them that they are definately concerned about the situation. I didn't sense it was "lip service." BUT, that conversation was over a year ago. OEM part failure rates should begin to improve OR one could then assume that we are getting "lip service" OR Hunter management is not willing to spend the extra money to buy quality parts. No one thought Ford and GM could build quality into their cars, either. But, it's obvious that they got religion on this subject. It took Japenese compition to move them to it, but they did fix the problem and so can Hunter. My next boat purchase will depend on how much progress I think they have made. That's my progative as a consumer. I hope this helps. Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
Candor about Hunter boats
An interesting side-bar between Peggie and Daniel. I think you are both correct in some ways. My thoughts are that yes, we cannot expect to pay little and get lots in anything. What we can expect is that the manufacturer not waste our money. That means, if they can't find a part (e.g., a tank gauge) that fits into their budget range that WORKS WELL, then don't put any in!!! Obviously this only applies to items which are not necessary for the operation of the vessel. I think when it comes to the necessary items, they have improved the selection considerably. They had to pay to supply and install these gauges, so we had to pay. They are a major maintenance item for most owners. I think Hunter would be better off by offering better gauges at an extra cost - then the owners could decide. So, Peggie, I agree that nothing should fail in less than a year but I will go one further and say that the product development process should look for much better service than that. I know they are between a rock and a hard place on that one, but the most successful manufacturers in the long run are the ones who solve this puzzle to the satisfaction of the customer. I also want to appreciate the comment regarding candor about these boats. I like my boat, but I can be candid about it's strengths and weaknesses. I also think that Hunter has "grown up" now and that they can handle it in the manner it is intended - just looking to see an improved product offering in the furture. Someone famous said "If we can't learn from our mistakes, we are destined to repeat them." Good discussion. ROwen
An interesting side-bar between Peggie and Daniel. I think you are both correct in some ways. My thoughts are that yes, we cannot expect to pay little and get lots in anything. What we can expect is that the manufacturer not waste our money. That means, if they can't find a part (e.g., a tank gauge) that fits into their budget range that WORKS WELL, then don't put any in!!! Obviously this only applies to items which are not necessary for the operation of the vessel. I think when it comes to the necessary items, they have improved the selection considerably. They had to pay to supply and install these gauges, so we had to pay. They are a major maintenance item for most owners. I think Hunter would be better off by offering better gauges at an extra cost - then the owners could decide. So, Peggie, I agree that nothing should fail in less than a year but I will go one further and say that the product development process should look for much better service than that. I know they are between a rock and a hard place on that one, but the most successful manufacturers in the long run are the ones who solve this puzzle to the satisfaction of the customer. I also want to appreciate the comment regarding candor about these boats. I like my boat, but I can be candid about it's strengths and weaknesses. I also think that Hunter has "grown up" now and that they can handle it in the manner it is intended - just looking to see an improved product offering in the furture. Someone famous said "If we can't learn from our mistakes, we are destined to repeat them." Good discussion. ROwen
guages and maintenance
I had my boat (sadly) in charter for a bit over a year and had problems with the guages nearly every month or so that the boat went out. Once out of charter, I flushed the tanks (with some soap) to try to clean out the sensors, and have not had trouble since. The cleaning even 'fixed' one sensor that I thought had failed. I think maintenance and proper use will sometimes prevent failures.
I had my boat (sadly) in charter for a bit over a year and had problems with the guages nearly every month or so that the boat went out. Once out of charter, I flushed the tanks (with some soap) to try to clean out the sensors, and have not had trouble since. The cleaning even 'fixed' one sensor that I thought had failed. I think maintenance and proper use will sometimes prevent failures.
AcuGage
Thanks for all the comments on our unit. Just to clarify one item. Metal Tanks. We do have in in tank rod for metal tanks. It uses the same principal that our outside tank foil uses. I would be happy to talk to anyone about our gauges and yes they are available here on this site. Dennis Ferriello Dennis@snake-river.org www.snake-river.org
Thanks for all the comments on our unit. Just to clarify one item. Metal Tanks. We do have in in tank rod for metal tanks. It uses the same principal that our outside tank foil uses. I would be happy to talk to anyone about our gauges and yes they are available here on this site. Dennis Ferriello Dennis@snake-river.org www.snake-river.org
Response to Dan Jonas
Dan: On your question about your existing gauges you have. Our tank modules will drive some gauges. Will have to talk to you and make sure it will work. Send me a mail with your phone number and I will call to discuss this. Dennis Snake River Electronics Dennis@snake-river.org
Dan: On your question about your existing gauges you have. Our tank modules will drive some gauges. Will have to talk to you and make sure it will work. Send me a mail with your phone number and I will call to discuss this. Dennis Snake River Electronics Dennis@snake-river.org
To Del
If you can get to the side of the tank you can use the AcuGage. If you can't you can use our rod. Better then a Float, no moving parts and DOES NOT clog ever. Nothing to clog, sealed unit with no holes in it. If you are doing just the one tank we have a mini one tank panel, 1 3/4" X 3" and you can either use the tape outside the tank or our in tank rod. Both are available on this site. All you need is the tank depth if you are using the rod. Dennis Ferriello Snake River electronics Dennis@snake-river.org
If you can get to the side of the tank you can use the AcuGage. If you can't you can use our rod. Better then a Float, no moving parts and DOES NOT clog ever. Nothing to clog, sealed unit with no holes in it. If you are doing just the one tank we have a mini one tank panel, 1 3/4" X 3" and you can either use the tape outside the tank or our in tank rod. Both are available on this site. All you need is the tank depth if you are using the rod. Dennis Ferriello Snake River electronics Dennis@snake-river.org
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