holding tank glutted with solids

[Kabloona]

To Peggy Hall, Head mistress:
A nearly-fully-plugged vent has kept our sailboat's 13-gallon holding tank from being drained by my wife's daily operation of our maserator pump during our recent 3-week cruise. She complained that the pump didn't sound like it was grinding anything as it used to. We noticed liquid dribbling out the vent as we flushed, but responded only by running the maserator longer next time.
I've since removed the hose to the vent fitting and found the inside leg of the fitting solidly clogged (though I've scraped the fitting from the outside and taped it over before each winter storage).The nearly-clogged fitting only let liquid escape the topped-up tank when manual pump flushing pressurized the tank.
Anyway, with a tank full of weeks of accumulated solids (on the bottom, I suppose), we now can't even pump it out at our marina's pump-out station (we've tried two different pumps!). I've tried back-blowing the 1 1/2" hose to the maserator with our 5 1/2 HP vac to no avail. Flushing the toilet into the full tank produces a solid stream of liquid out the vent, so the vent is now open. Help!! We're dead in the water!!
Is there a powerful chemical that will liquify these solids, or do I have to remove the tank to clean it?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You do not have a "glut of accumulated solids" in your tank

Solid waste is 75% water...and dissolves in water very quickly. It does NOT sink to the bottom of the tank and accumulate. You MIGHT have a little sludge in the tank, but it would be at most 1/4" deep.

What you DO have is either a vent line that's still clogged... or a clog in the tank discharge line. The vent:

A solid stream of liquid out it does NOT mean that it's open enough to prevent the pumpout from pulling a vacuum. You've cleared the thru-hull, but you haven't cleared the other end--the tank vent fitting and that end of the vent line. Remove the vent line from the thru-hull AND the tank...clean it out...clean out the vent fitting on the tank....make sure there's no kink in it or a sag that can trap the liquids you keep insisting on pumping through it.

If you still can't pump out, someone has flushed something they shouldn't have--paper towels, tampon, wet wipes...a huge amount of super strong TP. You may have to remove the tank to clear that clog.

Back-blowing the hose to the macerator would accomplish nothing because any clog isn't in the hose AFTER the macerator...it's in the tank. The macerator is blocking the way to the tank.... If there were a clog AFTER the macerator, doncha think the macerator would still be able to pull waste out of the tank???

You haven't been able to empty the tank throughout an entire 3 week cruise--maybe even left on the cruise knowing you had a full tank you couldn't empty....yet you continued to use the toilet--and apparently still continue to do so??? WHY??? What would prevent you from curing the problem the minute you discovered it????

 

[Kabloona]

Clearifications; "holding tank glutted"

Peggy,
Thank you very much for your prompt reply. Let me clarify a couple of things per your response. First, my reference to "BACK-BLOWING... the hose-to-the-macerator" was intended to identify the hose on which I was back-blowing INTO the tank drain 90-degree elbow to attempt to free any blockage at the tank drain. I was, of course, not back-blowing beyond (or toward) the macerator!

And, "No!, we didn't leave for our cruise knowing we had a non-op holding tank". All our pre-cruise sailing this year has been day sailing; no head use to speak of.

Thanks for the clarification on composition of head contents and your direction to more fully check out the vent line and its tank connection point. But I'm sure (as I can be) that no "foreign" matter has been flushed into the system. According to you that fact clears up most concerns about possible blockages at the tank drain opening!?

Finally, mea culpa! As hard as it must be to believe it, I am just now attempting to "cure the problem the minute I discovered it." Through naivete' (and, frankly, not wanting to be distracted by it), I have only now realized the severity of our problem. With your help, we will now proceed to fix it and try to go and sin no more.

This experience proves to me how invaluable is the service you provide! When we found we couldn't pump out even after (I felt) I had fully cleared the vent, I truly didn't know what to do next! Last year I fully sawed out and replaced the holding tank on this our '79 Bayfield 29 along with ALL the hoses, fittings AND macerator in the boat's sanitary system (a major reason I didn't imagine that something significant was wrong with the system already!). What more could I do, I felt? Well, now I know, at least, I should have also replaced the vent's through-hull fitting - and maybe the (30-yea-old ?) Jabsco head too; with one of your recommended Raritan units - the model RAR#CPII?? ("Compact II 90 degree Discharge??).

Anyway, thanks again, Peggy, for your patience and prompt response to a struggling couple who are still newbies in so many ways - even after all these years!

Kabloona

Solid waste is 75% water...and dissolves in water very quickly. It does NOT sink to the bottom of the tank and accumulate. You MIGHT have a little sludge in the tank, but it would be at most 1/4" deep.

What you DO have is either a vent line that's still clogged... or a clog in the tank discharge line. The vent:

A solid stream of liquid out it does NOT mean that it's open enough to prevent the pumpout from pulling a vacuum. You've cleared the thru-hull, but you haven't cleared the other end--the tank vent fitting and that end of the vent line. Remove the vent line from the thru-hull AND the tank...clean it out...clean out the vent fitting on the tank....make sure there's no kink in it or a sag that can trap the liquids you keep insisting on pumping through it.

If you still can't pump out, someone has flushed something they shouldn't have--paper towels, tampon, wet wipes...a huge amount of super strong TP. You may have to remove the tank to clear that clog.

Back-blowing the hose to the macerator would accomplish nothing because any clog isn't in the hose AFTER the macerator...it's in the tank. The macerator is blocking the way to the tank.... If there were a clog AFTER the macerator, doncha think the macerator would still be able to pull waste out of the tank???

You haven't been able to empty the tank throughout an entire 3 week cruise--maybe even left on the cruise knowing you had a full tank you couldn't empty....yet you continued to use the toilet--and apparently still continue to do so??? WHY??? What would prevent you from curing the problem the minute you discovered it????

 

[Kabloona]

Also, Peggy, a "PS":

The Lavac "Popular" manual toilet has been recommended to us by two friends who've replace their original units with them. What do you think of these?

Thanks,

Kabloona

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Replacement toilets...

The Lavac is an excellent choice for blue water cruising adults who rarely if ever have any children or landlubber guests aboard...but not the best choice for coastal "weekend warriors" 'cuz it's not particularly child/landlubber friendly.

I wouldn't go with the Raritan CPII compact either...its price tag is about as much as the PHC (PHII pump on a compact base), but it's a light duty compact...not nearly the workhorse that the PH II is. So for your boat, I'd recommend the PHC "conversion" that will save you a whole bunch of $$ by allowing you to "recycle" your existing bowl, seat and lid. Check it out here: sbo.com PHII PHC LBA

However, it's not your failure to replace the toilet and thru-hull that's caused your pumpout woes, it's your failure to maintain the system. Every part in it requires maintenance...tanks should be thoroughly flushed out at least 2-3 x a season...vent line should be backflushed EVERY time you pump out and/or wash the boat...manual toilet need lubrication...the list goes on. All you've done is cover up the thru-hull for the winter, allowing the "stuff" that's in the vent line to harden into a first class blockage. And you're finding out the hard way why certain jobs are called PREVENTIVE maintenance.

Solve your vent issues...then, once you've been able to pump out the tank, you need to thoroughly rinse it out. You'll find directions for doing that in previous discussions in this forum. Give me another shout if you can't solve the problem.

 

[Guest]

But then, I spose your's doesn't stink.....

To Peggy Hall, Head mistress:
A nearly-fully-plugged vent has kept our sailboat's 13-gallon holding tank from being drained by my wife's daily operation of our maserator pump during our recent 3-week cruise. She complained that the pump didn't sound like it was grinding anything as it used to. We noticed liquid dribbling out the vent as we flushed, but responded only by running the maserator longer next time.
I've since removed the hose to the vent fitting and found the inside leg of the fitting solidly clogged (though I've scraped the fitting from the outside and taped it over before each winter storage).The nearly-clogged fitting only let liquid escape the topped-up tank when manual pump flushing pressurized the tank.
Anyway, with a tank full of weeks of accumulated solids (on the bottom, I suppose), we now can't even pump it out at our marina's pump-out station (we've tried two different pumps!). I've tried back-blowing the 1 1/2" hose to the maserator with our 5 1/2 HP vac to no avail. Flushing the toilet into the full tank produces a solid stream of liquid out the vent, so the vent is now open. Help!! We're dead in the water!!
Is there a powerful chemical that will liquify these solids, or do I have to remove the tank to clean it?

 

[Guest]

that was meant to have a subject lilne of.... Nice of you to dump in the San Juans. But then I spose your's doesn't stink......

But then, I spose your's doesn't stink.....

 

[Guest]

Clogged holding tank vent

Both heads flushed normal during the survey. Keep in mind our new boat (91 model year that we purchased in 2002) spent most of her time at the dock with little to no use for several years. The admiral and I had been cleaning below decks to get Belle-Vie ship shape. We cleaned and checked the forward head and it worked normal, except for a loud thump beneath the admiral's feet, while sitting in the starboard setee. Did the same with the aft head. The first time it flushed fine, then it would not discharge; the water just swirled in the bowl.

I borrowed a plunger from my neighbor thinking the discharge line was plugged, but to no avail. So, I pulled the discharge line from the head, and after releasing a considerable amount of compressed air, went about attaching a city water hose to the line to clear it. The first time it seemed to clean it out after some rumbling. Again, it released compressed air when I disconnected the city water line.

I tried it one more time just to make sure. I remembered reading a forum article about plugged holding tank vents, so I pulled the starboard sole board covering the holding tank and disconnected the vent line from the tank. I then connected the city water line to the vent hose and looked to see if anything was coming out of the scupper. Nothing! Nada! Zip!

I took a small screw driver, and hanging over the side, inserted it into the scupper and gently poked at the opening. First I got a hiss, then a whoosh of water as the pressure blew out some little critter's nest or dried sludge that had plugged the opening. After reconnecting the vent and discharge lines, I checked the heads again and both worked like a charm.

Our standard procedure now is to follow Peggie Hall's advice:

1. Flush one gallon of fresh water through each head to clear out the discharge line.
2. Pump out tank, then fill with fresh water.
3. Pump out tank then fill with about four gallons of fresh water and repeat until clear water pumps out.
4. Using a special city water hose adapter that fits over the vent scupper I force fresh water back through the vent line to make sure that it is clear.
5. Add another four gallons of water and pump out again; repeat until clear water pumps out.
6. Flush each head with one quart of Odorlos mix.

Shortly after solving the plugged vent scupper problem the same symptom appeared again. This time it was plugged at the tank. Our SS tank has a 1/4 inch bronze elbow that the vent line clamps to. This elbow was plugged with a calcified material. I used a bent wire coat hanger to auger out this material.

As a closing note, thanks to those who have contributed articles to this forum, and especially to Ms. Peggie Hall. They have been very helpful to me in solving Belle-Vie's mostly minor problems. Belle-Vie's holding tank and head system remains trouble free after several years of cruising the PNW waters.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

It was only LUCK...

That the pressure in the system had dissipated--prob'ly escaped through the toilet--before you removed the head discharge hose from the toilet and the vent from the tank...'cuz if it hadn't, not only would you have taken a bath in your tank contents, but it would have spewed all over the head and the compartment where the tank is.

NEVER remove a hose from the system without first opening the deck pumpout fitting to relieve any pressure in the system...'cuz if it is still pressurized, you only have the deck to mop up.

And btw...it's not surprising that the toilets flushed ok during the survey...'cuz flushing each one just once to make sure it works isn't enough use to pressurize the system. ANY boat that's been sitting for any length of time is certain to have a blocked tank vent...dirt dauber nest or other insects...failure to flush out the vent on a regular basis. The first clue: manual toilet starts becoming increasingly "stiff" (gets harder to pump)...waste starts circling bowl in an electric toilet and/or the toilet starts to "burp" after flushing. A blocked vent will also prevent the tank from being pumped out...so when you start to notice ANY change in how well the toilet flushes, STOP USING THE TOILET until you find the problem and cure it!!

As long as you've finally decided to follow my advice, add one more thing to your list: replace the vent thru-hull with an open "bulkhead" or "mushroom" thru-hull that will allow you to backflush it every time you wash the boat AND let at least some of the air into the tank needed to keep it aerobic, which is the only way to prevent odor out the vent.

You can remove #2 from the list...

As for how much water to add to rinse out the tank, you only need enough to cover the bottom to a depth of 2-3"...be sure to put water into the tank via the deck pumpout fitting 'cuz that sends it into the tank at the bottom to stir up any sludge so it can be pumped out. 2-3 x season and especially in preparation for winter layup is as often as you need to do it.

Glad you've solved the problem...feel free to give me another shout if you need help in the future.