I have a 21 ft American fiberglass that I want to add a topping lift to. The way my mainsail is, if you draw a line from the top of the mast to the back of the boom where the topping lift would be, the leach of the sail sticks out farther and would get caught in the topping lift line. The boom only sticks out less than a foot past the end of the sail. How can I add a topping lift?
Help with topping lift
- Thread starter Armyaviation
- Start date
If you insist on torturing yourself by installing a topping lift on a boat with a large roach mainsail... just make sure you can easily slack the line so it won't interfere with the sail.
You probably don't want to hear this... but I would save my money and get a rigid vang... or a boom kicker if you already have a soft vang. Garhauer Marine has the most reasonably priced unit.. Most people get rid of the topping lift for the exact same reason you're trying to figure out how to add one... the topping lift gets hung up on the mainsail's large roach.
You probably don't want to hear this... but I would save my money and get a rigid vang... or a boom kicker if you already have a soft vang. Garhauer Marine has the most reasonably priced unit.. Most people get rid of the topping lift for the exact same reason you're trying to figure out how to add one... the topping lift gets hung up on the mainsail's large roach.
This is my second year sailing and I am trying to take my experiences from last year and make things easier this year. There is a line running to the back stay to hold the boom up but I have to leave it connected when raising the main and then go back to undo it and then back to main to finish tightening it. Seems repetitive. A vang would work but I have a hatch that flips open toward the mast and I didn't want anything that would get in the way of opening it with the boom on. I was also experimenting with making lazy jacks but I think all of this might complicate things instead of make it easier
There are several options for installing a topping lift these are the most common:
#1: A fixed length line from the top of the mast to the end of the boom. (Simple but no adjustment)
#2: Fixed at the top of the mast and adjustable at the end of the boom. (A little cumbersome but some like it)
#3: Fixed at the boom with line running through a block at the top of the mast to the base of the mast. (Could double as a spare halyard)
As Joe said "just make sure you can easily slack the line so it won't interfere with the sail." I use option #1. The line is just long enough that the boom raises up a few inches when I raise the sail.
#1: A fixed length line from the top of the mast to the end of the boom. (Simple but no adjustment)
#2: Fixed at the top of the mast and adjustable at the end of the boom. (A little cumbersome but some like it)
#3: Fixed at the boom with line running through a block at the top of the mast to the base of the mast. (Could double as a spare halyard)
As Joe said "just make sure you can easily slack the line so it won't interfere with the sail." I use option #1. The line is just long enough that the boom raises up a few inches when I raise the sail.
Is there any problem with using lazy jack setup to hold the boom up. I am making one now and so far pretty nice. I still have the line on the back stay to attach when at dock to keep from swinging. So for the most part the lazy jack will be holding it from dock to raising main
I am in option #1 also. When the main sail is down the boom hangs about 5 deg below the horizontal. When the Main is raised it puts enough slack on the topping lift so it doesn't interfere with the sail( just flops around). FYI, a handy place to check out specific boats is sailing texas, they have some boats that look like they have topping lifts. Note the boat is referred to as an American 6.5.
http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats99american65.html
Also found the manual for your boat but no mention of a topping lift.
http://codysguide.com/spirit28/Manuals.htm
Note; putting lazy jacks on a 21 foot seems a little overkill for that sized boat. But if it works for you fine.
http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats99american65.html
Also found the manual for your boat but no mention of a topping lift.
http://codysguide.com/spirit28/Manuals.htm
Note; putting lazy jacks on a 21 foot seems a little overkill for that sized boat. But if it works for you fine.
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Thanks but not the same boat. Mine is an American fiberglass 21. No info on it available. Actually I made a simple set of lazy jacks and they fold the sail and hold the boom. I won't rely on those but I still am able to attach it to the back stay.
Army Aviation;
As a dealer I never advocated the use of lazy jacks as most responded back on small boats simply got in the way. There is a simple way to flake the sail when tying it to the boom and then the mainsail cover. Be glad to tell you how to do that.Other options sometimes invite critters to live or make it easier to get into the sail further south you go to include your neck of the woods.
As mentioned, all you would have to do is slack the line so not to interfere with the mainsail when underway. A simple method of attachement is to find a turning block with the base that is curved designed to put on the boom on either side at the back end of the boom either screwed in or pop riveted with the 1/4 inch line then leading forward to a cleat about 12-15 inches away. Simple and easy and it is right there for easy access to lower or raise the boom.
Neat hobby shop down the street from Ann's restaurtant. Check out building 1101 at the base and then let me know. I was at the dedication in May.
Dave Condon Jr.
As a dealer I never advocated the use of lazy jacks as most responded back on small boats simply got in the way. There is a simple way to flake the sail when tying it to the boom and then the mainsail cover. Be glad to tell you how to do that.Other options sometimes invite critters to live or make it easier to get into the sail further south you go to include your neck of the woods.
As mentioned, all you would have to do is slack the line so not to interfere with the mainsail when underway. A simple method of attachement is to find a turning block with the base that is curved designed to put on the boom on either side at the back end of the boom either screwed in or pop riveted with the 1/4 inch line then leading forward to a cleat about 12-15 inches away. Simple and easy and it is right there for easy access to lower or raise the boom.
Neat hobby shop down the street from Ann's restaurtant. Check out building 1101 at the base and then let me know. I was at the dedication in May.
Dave Condon Jr.
Speaking from the experience of a Hunter 21 ... I went with the BoomKicker for a couple hundred bucks and four screws to remove my topping lift. Single handing, I'd always forget to tighten the lift up, and ended with a cockpit full of boom and sail! I suggest checking out some images of the Kicker to see if it will foul your hatch, as they are very convenient.
I can see no problem using a combination topping lift and lazy jacks as they are engaged at the same time (not sailing), but note that they will pull on different parts of the boom. Lazy jacks typically do not run all the way back to the end of the boom because there is no sail there to flake, and topping lifts are normally secured at the end for leverage. Whatever you design, make sure it completely releases so it does not foul the sail when you are sailing on all points of sail.
Would love to hear your method of flaking the sail. Ilan
Good points and ....
... we use both and love having them but it takes a little longer to setup the boat. I love the fact that we can drop the sail quickly on a big wind change with the sail-pack.......
(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-canvas/canvas-9.html)
..lazy jack combination .....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-21.html
Also like that the topping lift....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-3.html
..... helps to keep the boom out of the way at night on anchorage in addition to holding the boom up with the sail down or while reefing. I don't think I would want to hold the boom up with just the lazy jacks due to the lack of leverage mentioned above. Also when dropping or reefing the sail or raising it you don't want the lazy jacks real taught which they would be if they were also holding the boom up,
Sumner
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1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
What I was addressing were the smaller boats mostly used when trailered a lot as there are issues with too much gear that maximizes the time spent derigging a sailboat particularly when it is hot. Also the need for lazy jacks on smaller boats I found to be a hassle as I could fold, tie and put a cover over the mainsail a lot faster than using Lazy Jacks. Everyone has their opinion which I respect yours.
I installed a typing lift that combined option 2 & 3. Using a block at the top of the mast to a cleat near the goose-neck at the boom - but also connecting by a snap-shackle at a block at the end of the boom with a clam-cleat. This provides an adjustment at each end and can easily be disconnected as a spare halyard (which I have used). Also, clam-cleat is easily and conveniently adjustable in a second from the cock-pit for example during a race. Very easy to adjust from either end.
I also have a 24 inch stainless wire secured by a Nicropress crimp to an adjustable backstay with a small carabiner to connect to the boom for use as a toping lift if desired. The adjustable backstay has a 4:1 block and cam-cleat system for main-sail trim adjustments by shaping the mast.
I also installed lazy-jacks. I don't use them to support the boom - only to flake the main.
My boat is a 26 ft MacGregor 26S that I frequently sail short-handed.
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@Ilanortho, thanks for asking for the writeup. As an aside, I've sent you several PMs. Have you gotten them?
Flaking is simple as long as your have either a topping lift or a rigid vang which to hold the boom up.
When you drop the mainsail, make sure as the sail slides come down, one goes or alternates to each side respectively and then go to the back of the boom. Grabbing the mainsail pulling it back, fold it over the boom with alternating the folds tying it about a third of the way and walking forward continue this process tying it down maybe one or two more times till done. The first fold will be smaller and as you go forward the fold will be larger. In addition, try to lay the battens parallel with the boom in the folds if possible. The put the mainsail cover on.
When you drop the mainsail, make sure as the sail slides come down, one goes or alternates to each side respectively and then go to the back of the boom. Grabbing the mainsail pulling it back, fold it over the boom with alternating the folds tying it about a third of the way and walking forward continue this process tying it down maybe one or two more times till done. The first fold will be smaller and as you go forward the fold will be larger. In addition, try to lay the battens parallel with the boom in the folds if possible. The put the mainsail cover on.
Armyaviation, one point brought up here that you should consider is the amount you trailer your boat. For my Hunter 216, I either drysail (leave it at a parking lot where I can launch without removing the mast) or leave it in a slip. I only unstep the mast once a year to put it in winter storage because I found the hour-long process (each way) not worth the length of enjoyment for the average day sail (2-4 hours). This forum is loaded with suggestions on making a trailer sailor faster to setup and drop, but they all agree that you should minimize the rigging that is not essential. From racing experience, lazy jacks are a pain to setup and adjust the first time, but they pay for the effort over repeated use.
I usually flake starting at the rear. Are you taking the slugs out of the track as you alternately flake at the front?