Help me decide between a Sunbird and J Scow

Ed Schenck · Jan 30, 2011

My first thought is how old are you? A Scow would be great fun but takes a lot of skill and effort to sail well. I can't imagine doing anything with a J-Scow except racing it.

Ed Schenck · Jan 30, 2011

My boat has over 700 sq feet of sail. I have yet to install hiking straps.

Just saying, the AMF is a cruising boat where you normally sit in the cockpit.

RichH · Jan 30, 2011

The J Scow (MC) is a MUCH better sailboat.
http://www.mcscow.org/
http://www.mcscow.org/scowfam.htm

Only caution is to have only ONE bilge board down at a time, not two or you will get a lot of drag. At first it may seem a big PITA to be continually 'tacking the boards' but once 'mastered' will give you the best 'combo'.

BTW - the MC (as with most scows) 'prefer' to be sailed heeled over at 15-25 degrees - those bilge boards are 'angled' (not straight down) and are also angled with respect to the boats centerline by a few degrees.
You have to be somewhat careful when sailing INTO big waves and wakes as the 'bow' will easily become deeply buried and you can easily become a 'submarine' or 'pitch-poll end for end'. The MC is a great boat capable of extremely fast speed when on a plane.

Many of scow classes now have a requirement to have integral 'flotation panels' in the top panels of the mainsail .... to prevent the boat from 'turtling' with the mast straight down when capsized. Youll probably want to add 'floatation' to the inside of the boat under the decks, especially to the stern to keep the boat somewhat 'level' when capsized .... or if you do swamp only the bow will be sticking out of the water.

A Johnson scow will have a composite laminate with balsa cored hull .... so when examining look for any holes/cracks on the hull's skin for entryways for water that could penetrate the core that would start the core to rot --- ditto examine for leakage/rot around the "Evlstrøm bailers" located in the bottom of the cockpit.

RichH · Jan 30, 2011

For MC tuning, rigging, and other data/info go to ILYA.org and follow the links for the MC. The MC is still a current active class with a huge following.

Slade · Jan 31, 2011

White Bear Boat Works in White Bear Lake are a great resource for sailing and for the scows in particular.

I used to race MC scows at Lake Harriet several years back and they are great fun. The AMF Sunbird is a different animal entirely. So, it comes down to what kind of sailing you plan to do most. The scow will be a racing/daysailing craft predominantly and the Sunbird will be a daysailing/light gunkholing type boat. Of course you can race/cruise Any sailboat. It's just what you want to do if you're not racing.
Another question is if you have available crew or want to take guests sailing alot. I'm thinking newbies or non sailors will be much more comfy on the Sunbird, unless they are pretty athletic and enjoy a quick turn of speed.

Todd Smith · Jan 31, 2011

I had a Sunbird for a few years. It's a fun little boat. There is not enough room in the "cuddy" for sleeping, but it can hold enough gear for a weekend of camping.

There is a yahoo group for Sunbird owners here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amfsunbird/?yguid=216715136

hwpratt · Jan 31, 2011

I have sailed/raced MC-Scows and M-16's for about 20 years ... get the J-Scow (the MC-Scow "clone" of Melges' design)!

One unmentioned attribute of the scow is that they have lots of deck space to walk easily around on when boarding or preparing the boat ... and the boat won't try to tip you off when you do that. The stable platform is wonderful.

The scow is very nice to sail heeled up at a 15 degree angle. You are above the water enough to stay dry in most chop. When powerboat wakes come along, heel her up a little more to slice cleanly through the waves so the boat doesn't pound.

The scow really is fun to sail, much more responsive feeling than a conventional hull. The helm is very light upwind and you can easily plane the boat in moderate breezes reaching and running.

BigIsland said:
I've found a great AMF Sunbird for $2200 and a nice J Scow (MC Scow predecessor built by Johnson boatworks) for $1000.

I will trailer the boat for now and will primarily be daysailing but would also like to camp cruise maybe once a year (the J scow has a surprising amount of storage). My tow car will be a Camry so no issues with weight on either of these. Most likely the boat will be sailed on small to mid sized lakes within a couple hours of Minneapolis.

Deciding has been very difficult. The Sunbird is nice enough to justify the cost, but the J scow looks like a lot of fun. Any help is much appreciated!

DougM · Feb 1, 2011

I would go with the scow. I sailed MC scows for several years. My sons learned to sail on Butterfly and transitioned to the MC. Racing was great and we always had fairly large fleets in our area. They can be tippy and require crew if the wind pipes up, but they are easy to right. Most clubs wont race if the wind is over 20.

We have since moved on to bigger boats, but the small ones have always been ablast to sail. Growing up in a sailing club environment was great for our sons. One has continued to sail and has participated in at least a couple of Chicago to Mac races.