Height of head sail above bow?
- Thread starter Brian D
- Start date
The greatest restriction will be your sheeting angle, I would think.
Got enough jib car track length?
It's nice to be able to see ahead.
Got enough jib car track length?
It's nice to be able to see ahead.
The higher it goes, the further back the fairlead track needs to be. In most cases folks struggle with the track that's too short in front. I know mine is, 'cuz if I had a deck sweeper even a 110, my track wouldn't go far enough forward!!!
Brian, higher makes sense for visibility and safety. Ours is on a ProFurl with the long link plates and the foot of the jib is above the bow pulpit.
If you're running a 155 jib, you might see a small difference, but only when the wind piped up. But then, running a 155, it would most likely be a deck sweeper anyway, so you wouldn't have any leeway in hoisting it higher.
I've been putting the pendants at the foot of my jibs for the past 30 years.
Go for it, you'll like the new-found clearance.
Of course, racers may disagree, 'cuz they like to keep the foots low, low, low. But I've successfully raced with my high jibs and do quite well.
Higher also gives me anchor clearance - I anchor out almost every week.
Your boat, your choice.
Brian, higher makes sense for visibility and safety. Ours is on a ProFurl with the long link plates and the foot of the jib is above the bow pulpit.
If you're running a 155 jib, you might see a small difference, but only when the wind piped up. But then, running a 155, it would most likely be a deck sweeper anyway, so you wouldn't have any leeway in hoisting it higher.
I've been putting the pendants at the foot of my jibs for the past 30 years.
Go for it, you'll like the new-found clearance.
Of course, racers may disagree, 'cuz they like to keep the foots low, low, low. But I've successfully raced with my high jibs and do quite well.
Higher also gives me anchor clearance - I anchor out almost every week.
Your boat, your choice.
JSG, Stu, I have two tracks on my boat. One on the deck parallel with the mast and one on the combing further back. I understand the angle for the jib sheet, plus I have a 135%, I think the front track may be too close. But the aft track may be too far back. LOL! I also have my toe rail and blocks so I can get the angle, but it will open up the slot a little.
Next time I am at the boat I will take measurements but I think I will probably increase the pendant on the tack to its possible maximum. I may have two extra feet to play with. Right now the foot is about 18" off the deck.
Next time I am at the boat I will take measurements but I think I will probably increase the pendant on the tack to its possible maximum. I may have two extra feet to play with. Right now the foot is about 18" off the deck.
May I chime in? I don't have any tracks. When I bought the boat the jib sheet blocks were tied to the aft stay chain plates and that's the way they are right now. I will be investing in fairlead tracks as soon as I can but I really don't know where to put them. Originals were positioned aft on the toe rail, if I'm not mistaken but I don't know how long they were or their exact position. A local sailor at my marina told me he had his tracks abeam the mast on the toe rail and that he only used #1 or a #2 jib sails. I don't even know what that means. I know we typically have trade winds here 10 to 20 mph and often stronger and the seas here can be a bit rough. So I think that means he preferred smaller size jibs. Catalina Direct markets an inboard set of tracks they recommend so you can point higher. I don't know where to start. Any suggestions? I am saving up for roller furling if that has any bearing on the matter.
Cheers,
Rocky
Cheers,
Rocky
rocksteer: In general, here's a start on track placement. Inboard tracks are for closehauled and outboard tracks are for all other points of sail. A compromise would be in the middle BUT I'm not sure about the C22. There are a bunch of C22 sailors on this forum who will hopefully help you out with some good advise as to what works for them. The roller furling doesn't have anything to do with trimming your sails for optimum performance. Once you start rolling up the jib sail trim goes out the window.
#1 and #2 are the largest headsails carried. A #1 is usually 150 or 155% of the fore-triangle. #2 is usually 130 or 135. With these larger sails you generally keep the blocks well aft and outboard. Smaller sails (like a 110% #3 or a non-overlapping "blade") need the blocks further forward to keep the proper sheeting angle. The smaller sails can also have the blocks further inward since the smaller sails won't interfere with the rigging when set inside the spreaders. If you want to switch to roller furling you'll definitely want adjustable blocks, at least fore-aft, so that you can match the block location to the amount of sail unfurled. Fully unfurled you'll want the blocks back in what your local sailor considers his #1 location, then as you furl you'll move the block forward. Generally you want the line from block to clew to bisect the angle formed by the foot and leech of the sail, more or less. From there you adjust the block back to twist off the top of the sail, de powering it, or forward to power up a little more.
I suggest you do a little research to educate yourself on sails and sail trim. There are many fine books, but if you can get a copy of "the Art an Science of Sails" by Tom Whidden. Getting bits and pieces from twenty different people in the beginning can be confusing at best. If you want to enjoy sailing and spend your money wisely, read a few books... especially this one.http://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-S...5062&sr=8-1&keywords=the+art+science+of+sails
Brian, you might give your local sail loft a call and let him give you some options to raise the foot a bit and get the clew high enough to clear lifelines, improve visibility and still maintain a similar lead block position. Could be something a simple recut could accomplish.
Hey Don,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I think I understand how the location of turning blocks affect sail trim to some degree. The optimal position of the turning block would depend on many factors including the sail size and point of sail. But I don't understand how that once you start rolling up the jib that trim goes out the window. Can't you just relocate your turning block on the track? Please forgive me if that seems like a less than intelligent question. I'm kinda new at this. Thank you for your consideration.
Cheers,
Rocky
Hey David,
Thank you for your thoughtful and comprehensive reply to my query. Your concise and lucid explanation has enhanced my limited understanding of the mysterious magic of sail trim. My mind needs time to Grok this information. Fair winds.
Rocky
The lower the foot the better the pointing. It has been said that wind on the headsail really pulls the boat along rather than pushes it. This is because of the lift that creates a pressure differential between the windward and leeward sides of the sails. There is some "leaking" of air under the foot of the sail as the air is sucked under from the high pressure side to the low pressure side in the front which reduces the sail's power. This is why a deck sweeper is pop with racers. Less leaking. Also, this low pressure area actually draws the air out ahead of the boat to it effectively bending the air in front of the boat allowing the helmsman to steer up into the bend pointing a little higher.
Hey Joe,
Thank you for your well considered advice. To be sure, I am attempting to educate myself on sails and sail trim. Please be patient with me, I may be slow but I am thorough. I appreciate your pointing me toward specific sources where I may fulfill my quest and I will follow up on your suggestions. Fair winds.
Rocky
Rocky, then you should buy Don's great Sail Trim Book, one of the best, most concise, all in one place, books I've seen in the past 40 years.
The price is right and you can buy it right here on this great website.
Hey hewebb,
Thank you for your insight. I don't currently have life lines so, as I understand it, that leaves me more options as far as fair lead track placement goes. I will keep that in mind.
Cheers,
Rocky
Rocky: Here's the problem I had with inboard & outboard tracks and it centered around the safety lines. They presented a problem, which I couldn't solve. My Catalina 30 (1981) came with outboard tracks but it had a a set of tracks on the cabin top, which I really wanted to use closehauled. I spent many an hour and a few beers trying to figure out how to use both tracks using a Garhauer snatch block, which I operate with one hand but the safety lines always got in the way. Finally, I settled on a barberhauler setup, which got the job done.
I know that you're trying to educate yourself on sail trim and I think I can help because I was in your position years ago (we all were because we were not born with sail trim knowledge). The first thing you need to understand is what all the sail trim controls for the main and jib are adjusting. They are adjusting ONLY 4 elements (draft depth, draft position, twist & angle of attack). Next, you need to know which element each sail trim control for the main and jib is adjusting (buy my SAIL TRIM CHART and a free "quick reference" is included, which will outline it for you and will tell you which way to push or pull the sail trim control to obtain the result yo desire. Once you get the basic of sail trim down pat you can then worry about track placement.
I notice you live in Honolulu. What a wonderful place to live. Maybe Stu J, Joe from San Diego and myself and our wives could fly over, of course on your dime, and help you out with sail trim!!! We could probably complete the deal in 2 hours but would have to extend it for 4 days!! What do you think about that? Should we start making airline reservations?? Brian D, who started this topic,and his wife would also be included. When we finish you'll know more about sail trim than 75% of the sailors worldwide. A free SAIL TRIM USERS GUIDE & a SAIL TRIM CHART is included.
Joe, Stu, Brian -start packing, I know he'll go for this deal. If he doesn't, some other forum listers, maybe in NZ or Australia, will be interested!!
I know that you're trying to educate yourself on sail trim and I think I can help because I was in your position years ago (we all were because we were not born with sail trim knowledge). The first thing you need to understand is what all the sail trim controls for the main and jib are adjusting. They are adjusting ONLY 4 elements (draft depth, draft position, twist & angle of attack). Next, you need to know which element each sail trim control for the main and jib is adjusting (buy my SAIL TRIM CHART and a free "quick reference" is included, which will outline it for you and will tell you which way to push or pull the sail trim control to obtain the result yo desire. Once you get the basic of sail trim down pat you can then worry about track placement.
I notice you live in Honolulu. What a wonderful place to live. Maybe Stu J, Joe from San Diego and myself and our wives could fly over, of course on your dime, and help you out with sail trim!!! We could probably complete the deal in 2 hours but would have to extend it for 4 days!! What do you think about that? Should we start making airline reservations?? Brian D, who started this topic,and his wife would also be included. When we finish you'll know more about sail trim than 75% of the sailors worldwide. A free SAIL TRIM USERS GUIDE & a SAIL TRIM CHART is included.
Joe, Stu, Brian -start packing, I know he'll go for this deal. If he doesn't, some other forum listers, maybe in NZ or Australia, will be interested!!
Don't forget the photographer from South Carolina to document the trip and lessons. The photography and images will be provided free of charge as long as Rocky pays for transportation to and from Hawaii for me and my Lovely Assistant/First Mate.
Read this in regard to the placement of sail sheeting angles:
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1063067&highlight=RichH
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1063067&highlight=RichH