My husband and I recently purchased our first boat, a 22' Balboa. We've been sailing 2-3 times/wk for about a month now, getting use to the boat and varying wind conditions. My question is this. When can I expect to get used to HEELING? Tipping the boat even as much as 15 degrees on the meter seems to really make me nervous !! Is this normal? Will it go away with time and experience? Thanx a lot.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
D
Dan Linebarger
It will be OK....really!
Hi, I got my first sail boat this sprint a Hunter 25. I was that way to at 10 degrees...then at 15...then 20....then 25...Once you realize that even when it seems out of control the boat will take care of itself...and you are not as "out of control" as it felt it will get better. I am now comfortable at 25 degrees and can hold the boat there pretty much at will I can dip ot to 30 or lessen it to 15 by using the tiller and letting out the jib...Once I realized and gained confidence in my sailing I got more comfortable heeling. I don't like to get pase 25 degrees but if I do I know I can easily bring it back. I also found that as the boat heeled if I take my feet off of the deck and place them on the seat back across from me I was in more of a standing position as the boat heeled and this helped alot. Don't worry be happy!! Dan
Hi, I got my first sail boat this sprint a Hunter 25. I was that way to at 10 degrees...then at 15...then 20....then 25...Once you realize that even when it seems out of control the boat will take care of itself...and you are not as "out of control" as it felt it will get better. I am now comfortable at 25 degrees and can hold the boat there pretty much at will I can dip ot to 30 or lessen it to 15 by using the tiller and letting out the jib...Once I realized and gained confidence in my sailing I got more comfortable heeling. I don't like to get pase 25 degrees but if I do I know I can easily bring it back. I also found that as the boat heeled if I take my feet off of the deck and place them on the seat back across from me I was in more of a standing position as the boat heeled and this helped alot. Don't worry be happy!! Dan
R
Rob Rich
Dan's Right, also, check sail area
Optimum angle of heel on most boats is around 12-17 degrees. Generally, any more heel is inefficient, any less heel means you are probably undersheeted or not pointed correctly. So, if you are routinely over 17 degrees, look into reefing your main, or downsizing your jib to a 100% or smaller. Then you can work your way up to bigger sails, which will tend to heel you harder in gusty winds. My wife was very tentative about heeling when we started sailing monohulls a year or so back - now she only gets nervous when a rail goes under, and this is okay because dipping a rail is really only for show. Sail, Sail, and sail some more, and your discomfort will turn to confidence! Best of Luck, Rob
Optimum angle of heel on most boats is around 12-17 degrees. Generally, any more heel is inefficient, any less heel means you are probably undersheeted or not pointed correctly. So, if you are routinely over 17 degrees, look into reefing your main, or downsizing your jib to a 100% or smaller. Then you can work your way up to bigger sails, which will tend to heel you harder in gusty winds. My wife was very tentative about heeling when we started sailing monohulls a year or so back - now she only gets nervous when a rail goes under, and this is okay because dipping a rail is really only for show. Sail, Sail, and sail some more, and your discomfort will turn to confidence! Best of Luck, Rob
B
Bill Murray
OK -- Not OK???
Every new sailor is at first concerned about heeling. Eventually your inner brain will accept the idea that sailboats move forward when tilted. It is not our fear of tilting that bothers our psyche but our fear that the tilting will get out of control and roll us over - into the water. I try to teach newbees on my boat to understand this and to find a place to sit/stand/lay which is level. once one figures out how to do this, the tilt doesn't seem so bad at all. I like to make sure that everyone understands what the boat is doing and how it happens. The best way I have found to do this is to teach them to steer under sail. feeling what happens when the boat heads up, falls off, accelerates, etc. quickly omplants teh notion that it is all natural and OK. It also helps to explain that the boat won't tip over! - which is pretty much the real truth if you sail it with in even broad ranges of its designed capabilities. My first boat which I sailed for 15 years on the Great Lakes was an Aquarius 23 - the littler sister of your boat. They were very much alike. The company advertised that they could not be tipped over. Advertising had a picture of teh boat being pulled (with a rope at the top of the mast) over until the top of the mast was under the water. The boat floated on its side with no water entering the cockpit. When the line was released, the boat popped back upright! A friend of mine had a Balboa - he sailed it everywhere (Great Lakes, Florida, Bahamas) under all kinds of conditions. While not the most expensive boat or the heaviest and toughest, if you make sure all gear is in order and sail sensibly it will be a great way to get on the water and introduce yourself to this life. The boat is sort of undercanvassed and that will help. But remember - it is designed to sail best at between 10-15 degrees of heel. If it is heeling more than that you need to take action. You will go faster and you will be safer and more comfortable. If you are heeling to much what do you do? Point up a little into the wind in the gusts if it is doing it only on a gusty day. If it is heeling too much most of the time, you are probably sheeting in the main too tight, let it out. If still in doubt let it out some more. Most sailors err by having the sails puled in to tight. All that does is cause lots of heeling and make you go slower! If you still are heeling to much and can't keep the boat on it's feet, you need to reef or put up a smaller jib. these boats originally had roller reefing (the mainsail was made smaller by rolling it around the boom) this was a seemingly brilliant idea that worked very poorly in practice. If you boat still is set up this way have your sailmaker modify it for slab or single line reefing - rig it to the cockpit if you can afford to. It works simpler and safer and you will use it more often. These boats need to be reefed - probably in any wind over 15 knots when going upwind. Have a great time.
Every new sailor is at first concerned about heeling. Eventually your inner brain will accept the idea that sailboats move forward when tilted. It is not our fear of tilting that bothers our psyche but our fear that the tilting will get out of control and roll us over - into the water. I try to teach newbees on my boat to understand this and to find a place to sit/stand/lay which is level. once one figures out how to do this, the tilt doesn't seem so bad at all. I like to make sure that everyone understands what the boat is doing and how it happens. The best way I have found to do this is to teach them to steer under sail. feeling what happens when the boat heads up, falls off, accelerates, etc. quickly omplants teh notion that it is all natural and OK. It also helps to explain that the boat won't tip over! - which is pretty much the real truth if you sail it with in even broad ranges of its designed capabilities. My first boat which I sailed for 15 years on the Great Lakes was an Aquarius 23 - the littler sister of your boat. They were very much alike. The company advertised that they could not be tipped over. Advertising had a picture of teh boat being pulled (with a rope at the top of the mast) over until the top of the mast was under the water. The boat floated on its side with no water entering the cockpit. When the line was released, the boat popped back upright! A friend of mine had a Balboa - he sailed it everywhere (Great Lakes, Florida, Bahamas) under all kinds of conditions. While not the most expensive boat or the heaviest and toughest, if you make sure all gear is in order and sail sensibly it will be a great way to get on the water and introduce yourself to this life. The boat is sort of undercanvassed and that will help. But remember - it is designed to sail best at between 10-15 degrees of heel. If it is heeling more than that you need to take action. You will go faster and you will be safer and more comfortable. If you are heeling to much what do you do? Point up a little into the wind in the gusts if it is doing it only on a gusty day. If it is heeling too much most of the time, you are probably sheeting in the main too tight, let it out. If still in doubt let it out some more. Most sailors err by having the sails puled in to tight. All that does is cause lots of heeling and make you go slower! If you still are heeling to much and can't keep the boat on it's feet, you need to reef or put up a smaller jib. these boats originally had roller reefing (the mainsail was made smaller by rolling it around the boom) this was a seemingly brilliant idea that worked very poorly in practice. If you boat still is set up this way have your sailmaker modify it for slab or single line reefing - rig it to the cockpit if you can afford to. It works simpler and safer and you will use it more often. These boats need to be reefed - probably in any wind over 15 knots when going upwind. Have a great time.
M
Mike Turner
Heeling Adds Stability
It seems contrary to our senses but 10-15 degrees of heel actually adds to the stability of the boat. The hulls are designed with this angle of heel in mind and in most cases the waterline length actually increases with this angle of heel, adding to stability and speed. Any more than that, though, and you begin to lose efficiency, due in part to the increased drag of the rudder in the water as you hold more and more "weather helm" to keep the boat on track. But knowing the boat is actually sitting more solidly in the water when heeling at least helps psychologically! Mike Turner S/V Amity
It seems contrary to our senses but 10-15 degrees of heel actually adds to the stability of the boat. The hulls are designed with this angle of heel in mind and in most cases the waterline length actually increases with this angle of heel, adding to stability and speed. Any more than that, though, and you begin to lose efficiency, due in part to the increased drag of the rudder in the water as you hold more and more "weather helm" to keep the boat on track. But knowing the boat is actually sitting more solidly in the water when heeling at least helps psychologically! Mike Turner S/V Amity
B
Brian Stevenson
Heeling---Over
I'm sure that all dingy sailors can relate to the early days of the sailing when skipper and crew had to jump around in (sometimes desperate)attempts to balance the boat. Anything less than great anticipation and fast reaction , especially on the trapese, resulted in heeling at 90 degrees and if you still didn't react fast, continuance to 180 degrees. We laughed many times, using the business slogan- Location, location, location to prevent capsize. At first, in high gusty winds, we swam more than sailed. We waited for marine forcasts, praying for small craft warnings, being constantly gratefull that my 15 foot Lazy E was in no way a small craft. One learned to jump into the water, to miss the sail, the boom, the shouds and the sheets. Image how boring my Catalina 27 was when I found that you could put the rail under and as far as capsize goes- no worries mate. So the answer for you is confidence, confidence, confidence and this comes from experience. Now my biggest problem is trying to remember the location, location, location of all the shoals, shoals and I can't remember the third thing. If all else fails, do some dingy sailing, and you will heel all your worries.
I'm sure that all dingy sailors can relate to the early days of the sailing when skipper and crew had to jump around in (sometimes desperate)attempts to balance the boat. Anything less than great anticipation and fast reaction , especially on the trapese, resulted in heeling at 90 degrees and if you still didn't react fast, continuance to 180 degrees. We laughed many times, using the business slogan- Location, location, location to prevent capsize. At first, in high gusty winds, we swam more than sailed. We waited for marine forcasts, praying for small craft warnings, being constantly gratefull that my 15 foot Lazy E was in no way a small craft. One learned to jump into the water, to miss the sail, the boom, the shouds and the sheets. Image how boring my Catalina 27 was when I found that you could put the rail under and as far as capsize goes- no worries mate. So the answer for you is confidence, confidence, confidence and this comes from experience. Now my biggest problem is trying to remember the location, location, location of all the shoals, shoals and I can't remember the third thing. If all else fails, do some dingy sailing, and you will heel all your worries.
K
Kenneth Pfaff
My wife is the same way
with ever little heel she is always easing the mainsheet to spill off the wind and flatten the boat and she drives me crazy. I find that when I am just out with my kids (ages 18 and 15) we tend to push the envelope much more and we get use to heeling. (we even get a kick out of it). The my wife joins us and we are use to heeling and she isn't and we are back into the same cycle. I feel that you need to work at it in various conditions with various sail configurations and know how the boat will handle. You then know how the boat will respond and you will know how to handle it and your confidence will go up.
with ever little heel she is always easing the mainsheet to spill off the wind and flatten the boat and she drives me crazy. I find that when I am just out with my kids (ages 18 and 15) we tend to push the envelope much more and we get use to heeling. (we even get a kick out of it). The my wife joins us and we are use to heeling and she isn't and we are back into the same cycle. I feel that you need to work at it in various conditions with various sail configurations and know how the boat will handle. You then know how the boat will respond and you will know how to handle it and your confidence will go up.
J
Jim McCue
healing heeling
I had Oday 23 with the half keel/adjustable dagger. I don't know what kind of keel or sail conditions you have but found that that boat was mostly a lake (not great lakes) boat and really didn't have enough below the water line to bite and move forward rather than heel and slide downwind. Mt experience was in Barnegat Bay NJ where it is somewhat sheltered. I assume you are working your sails reasonably flat in stronger wind. Are you moving your cars back as wind builds? Are you moving your trav from center to slightly windward? that should put a fair twist in your main and spill some wind out the top, reducing your heel. Try it. Some heel is necessary- Jim
I had Oday 23 with the half keel/adjustable dagger. I don't know what kind of keel or sail conditions you have but found that that boat was mostly a lake (not great lakes) boat and really didn't have enough below the water line to bite and move forward rather than heel and slide downwind. Mt experience was in Barnegat Bay NJ where it is somewhat sheltered. I assume you are working your sails reasonably flat in stronger wind. Are you moving your cars back as wind builds? Are you moving your trav from center to slightly windward? that should put a fair twist in your main and spill some wind out the top, reducing your heel. Try it. Some heel is necessary- Jim
T
Tim Schaaf
A different way to think
I have found it very helpful to explain to sailing newcomers that the further a keelboat heels, the more force it develops that wants to get it back upright. It is like leaning into a giant spring...the more energy you use to push into the spring (ie. the more wind in the sails), the more that spring will push back into you, when you "release" it. This is entirely the opposite of what happens when a human leans over...in which case, the farther you lean over, the nearer you get to a point of no return, where you fall over. And, of course, it is THIS intuitive fear that equates to an allergy to heeling. Teach 'em that the more the boat heels, the more strongly that spring (the ballast keel) is working to keep them from going further and to straighten them up. Good luck
I have found it very helpful to explain to sailing newcomers that the further a keelboat heels, the more force it develops that wants to get it back upright. It is like leaning into a giant spring...the more energy you use to push into the spring (ie. the more wind in the sails), the more that spring will push back into you, when you "release" it. This is entirely the opposite of what happens when a human leans over...in which case, the farther you lean over, the nearer you get to a point of no return, where you fall over. And, of course, it is THIS intuitive fear that equates to an allergy to heeling. Teach 'em that the more the boat heels, the more strongly that spring (the ballast keel) is working to keep them from going further and to straighten them up. Good luck
S
Steve Growcock
Time will heel
Thank you very much for addressing this issue. I called my wife over to read the responses, however there seems to still be a bit of skepticism. Maybe if I just plunk her down on the windward rail...hmmm, although it would make for a rather quiet ride home. I guess time will heel (pun intended). Steve!
Thank you very much for addressing this issue. I called my wife over to read the responses, however there seems to still be a bit of skepticism. Maybe if I just plunk her down on the windward rail...hmmm, although it would make for a rather quiet ride home. I guess time will heel (pun intended). Steve!
W
Warren
"Heeling School"
The feelings that you are experiencing are quite normal. All our lives we are conditioned that things should stay upright...then along come "sailing"..all of a sudden the boat is not upright, our conditioning tells us we are in emanate danger! Ofcourse we are not, heeling is an unavoidable part of sailing. All the "tech talk" is fine, it explains why we have to heel. However, I would suggest taking basic "on the water" sailing course early next spring. In the company of other people, it seems easier to overcome our fears. If possable, join a local sailing yacht club, they all have courses. See if you can find a copy of HAVE FUN LEARNING TO SAIL by George O'Day
The feelings that you are experiencing are quite normal. All our lives we are conditioned that things should stay upright...then along come "sailing"..all of a sudden the boat is not upright, our conditioning tells us we are in emanate danger! Ofcourse we are not, heeling is an unavoidable part of sailing. All the "tech talk" is fine, it explains why we have to heel. However, I would suggest taking basic "on the water" sailing course early next spring. In the company of other people, it seems easier to overcome our fears. If possable, join a local sailing yacht club, they all have courses. See if you can find a copy of HAVE FUN LEARNING TO SAIL by George O'Day
F
Frank Vaughan
Um, sorry, but I disagree
My wife and I have been sailing together for 18 years. On our Hobie 16, she would trap out, we pitch poled occasionally and sailed like mainiacs on it. Then, we got older and kid embedded and got a Cat 22. She is deathly afraid of heeling on the Cat! Has been all along. She is an engineer and can draw a vector diagram showing logically the forces at work. It is not logic driven! She claims that it is a deep rooted fear similar to a panic attack. We got a Cat 25 with fin keel. It is even more stable than the 22, and she is still afraid! Doing some research, people that get car sick easily tend to have an easily over stimulated equilibrium. The only thing that helps is seasick medicine, Benadryl or alcohol, but not all at once. The seasick bands do not help her, but have helped others. Good luck and be very patient.
My wife and I have been sailing together for 18 years. On our Hobie 16, she would trap out, we pitch poled occasionally and sailed like mainiacs on it. Then, we got older and kid embedded and got a Cat 22. She is deathly afraid of heeling on the Cat! Has been all along. She is an engineer and can draw a vector diagram showing logically the forces at work. It is not logic driven! She claims that it is a deep rooted fear similar to a panic attack. We got a Cat 25 with fin keel. It is even more stable than the 22, and she is still afraid! Doing some research, people that get car sick easily tend to have an easily over stimulated equilibrium. The only thing that helps is seasick medicine, Benadryl or alcohol, but not all at once. The seasick bands do not help her, but have helped others. Good luck and be very patient.
Windward rail
Getting your nervous crew to ride the windward rail works for several reasons: a) the cockpit and leeward rail are no longer visible, so the visual sense of heeling is not as acute b) the view from the windward side looking forward is pretty panoramic c) the extra weight on the rail helps to reduce heel If you don't have a tiller extension, why not get one? Then you can BOTH hang out up there on the high side. Happy sailing. Peter H23 "Raven"
Getting your nervous crew to ride the windward rail works for several reasons: a) the cockpit and leeward rail are no longer visible, so the visual sense of heeling is not as acute b) the view from the windward side looking forward is pretty panoramic c) the extra weight on the rail helps to reduce heel If you don't have a tiller extension, why not get one? Then you can BOTH hang out up there on the high side. Happy sailing. Peter H23 "Raven"
V
Viviana
Try a dinghy
I grew up sailing with a mom that was also scared of healing the boat. I find that one way to be less scared of healing is to actually tip and see that you have control of the situation. Now I DO NOT SUGGEST YOU TIP YOUR MAC, but I suggest trying this with a dinghy. This was the way I was taught as a child, when I sailed optimist class dinghies. Once you learn your drill you are never scared again. The chances of your 22' boat actually capsizing are much less anyways, but perhaps learning how to handle a worst situation will give her the confidence she needs to feel comfortable with your boat's handling, Take care, Viviana
I grew up sailing with a mom that was also scared of healing the boat. I find that one way to be less scared of healing is to actually tip and see that you have control of the situation. Now I DO NOT SUGGEST YOU TIP YOUR MAC, but I suggest trying this with a dinghy. This was the way I was taught as a child, when I sailed optimist class dinghies. Once you learn your drill you are never scared again. The chances of your 22' boat actually capsizing are much less anyways, but perhaps learning how to handle a worst situation will give her the confidence she needs to feel comfortable with your boat's handling, Take care, Viviana
T
Terry Arnold
stone face
I found out the hard way that with someone deathly afraid of heeling, the skipper has to make sure his (her) expression never changes when a gust sends her over. My wife checks my face at once when plumb becomes aslant and interprets any change in expression at all as a sign that the end is near.
I found out the hard way that with someone deathly afraid of heeling, the skipper has to make sure his (her) expression never changes when a gust sends her over. My wife checks my face at once when plumb becomes aslant and interprets any change in expression at all as a sign that the end is near.
D
Daniel Jonas
Face control
Terry, I know what you mean. When the boat starts to heel and speed up I get a big grin on my face....that's when my significant other begins to realize that we have exceeded her goals for the day. When the water starts coming over the bow, I've been know to let out a good yell (as in Whoop EEE!). She usually interprets this as my ill advised response to impending death. Gotta work on that Poker Face! Dan Jonas (S/V Feije)
Terry, I know what you mean. When the boat starts to heel and speed up I get a big grin on my face....that's when my significant other begins to realize that we have exceeded her goals for the day. When the water starts coming over the bow, I've been know to let out a good yell (as in Whoop EEE!). She usually interprets this as my ill advised response to impending death. Gotta work on that Poker Face! Dan Jonas (S/V Feije)
B
Bill
Learning control is better
I agree that it's best to make sure that everyone understands what the boat is doing and how it happens by teaching them to steer under sail. When confidence that you can control the boat replaces the panic that comes from fear, getting used to the fear is moot. I find that this is working much better with my mate than all the reassurances in the world. We were out yesterday in a moderate breeze, and in one session she developed a very sensitive touch on the wheel, controlling the heel.
I agree that it's best to make sure that everyone understands what the boat is doing and how it happens by teaching them to steer under sail. When confidence that you can control the boat replaces the panic that comes from fear, getting used to the fear is moot. I find that this is working much better with my mate than all the reassurances in the world. We were out yesterday in a moderate breeze, and in one session she developed a very sensitive touch on the wheel, controlling the heel.
L
Larry Mongeon
The Wife's View
My husband, Larry, asked me to read this page because I've had the same problem you're having. We've had our H25 since May this year and it's my first boat, but my husband is an experienced sailor who LOVES testing the envelope! I really want to enjoy sailing as much as he does, but heeling still scares me . . . but not as much as it used to. I've gotten better each time out (I don't scream "We're all gonne die!" anymore) and I think its a question of time and getting used to it. If you heel the boat over till you're comfortable, then take it a little farther and hold it for a while you have a chance to see that it really is ok and your confidence will improve by degrees. I'm about to take my own advice again and head out to the lake now, and I hope you keep trying too. It's not easy for a couple to find a pasttime they can enjoy together and nobody looks good in bowling shoes! April
My husband, Larry, asked me to read this page because I've had the same problem you're having. We've had our H25 since May this year and it's my first boat, but my husband is an experienced sailor who LOVES testing the envelope! I really want to enjoy sailing as much as he does, but heeling still scares me . . . but not as much as it used to. I've gotten better each time out (I don't scream "We're all gonne die!" anymore) and I think its a question of time and getting used to it. If you heel the boat over till you're comfortable, then take it a little farther and hold it for a while you have a chance to see that it really is ok and your confidence will improve by degrees. I'm about to take my own advice again and head out to the lake now, and I hope you keep trying too. It's not easy for a couple to find a pasttime they can enjoy together and nobody looks good in bowling shoes! April
Send them to Sailing School!
I really think that sending them (wife, spouse, significant others, maybe children) to sailing school is a step in the right direction. I know that Dan Jonas did it and it only settled the 'little ladies' fears slightly. But in general, it gives them a sense of understanding without the resident captain sitting there (smiling) and telling them everything is ALRIGHT, when they KNOW they are going to die.
I really think that sending them (wife, spouse, significant others, maybe children) to sailing school is a step in the right direction. I know that Dan Jonas did it and it only settled the 'little ladies' fears slightly. But in general, it gives them a sense of understanding without the resident captain sitting there (smiling) and telling them everything is ALRIGHT, when they KNOW they are going to die.
J
Jim McCue
healing healing -Redux
Last Sunday was the 1st time in 13 years that the wife went sailing with me. Luckily it was only about 10kts wind and the H28.5 moved along smoothly without any real puffing heeling beyond 10-15degrees. Ever since we had kids she became afraid of a good heel and our days sailing together faded out. It is odd that this happened because previously we had Prindle 18 caramaran and spent most of the time hiked up and out without any real concerns. I'm hoping that this recent experience is a re-introduction to the boat. Next time we'll probably have 15-20kts winds! Wish us luck ;> Jim McCue
Last Sunday was the 1st time in 13 years that the wife went sailing with me. Luckily it was only about 10kts wind and the H28.5 moved along smoothly without any real puffing heeling beyond 10-15degrees. Ever since we had kids she became afraid of a good heel and our days sailing together faded out. It is odd that this happened because previously we had Prindle 18 caramaran and spent most of the time hiked up and out without any real concerns. I'm hoping that this recent experience is a re-introduction to the boat. Next time we'll probably have 15-20kts winds! Wish us luck ;> Jim McCue
- Status
- Not open for further replies.