How do you shorten sail in heavy weather? Do you shorten or furl the genoa (for you non-furlers, do you switch to a storm jib)... or do you reef the main first and attend to the headsail later? Share your weather techniques here in the Quick Quiz, now in progress.
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depends on the rig
On my previous boat (h28.5) with a masthead rig I would furl the genoa first and then the main if needed. On my present boat (h33.5) with fractional rig, it's just the opposite: furl the big main first and then the 110% genny if needed. That and the switch from fin to wing keel took some getting used to.
On my previous boat (h28.5) with a masthead rig I would furl the genoa first and then the main if needed. On my present boat (h33.5) with fractional rig, it's just the opposite: furl the big main first and then the 110% genny if needed. That and the switch from fin to wing keel took some getting used to.
Responded with "Main" because...
...I have only 100% jib anyway. No roller furling, no big sail inventory, just main and lil' ol' jib on an H31. What I do next depends greatly on wind speed, direction, and what equipment I'm using to steer with. My 31 sails "OK" with double reef and no jib in 25+ knots but would prefer to have 60-75% storm sail and no main for same wind.
...I have only 100% jib anyway. No roller furling, no big sail inventory, just main and lil' ol' jib on an H31. What I do next depends greatly on wind speed, direction, and what equipment I'm using to steer with. My 31 sails "OK" with double reef and no jib in 25+ knots but would prefer to have 60-75% storm sail and no main for same wind.
Which headsail?
As I own a cutter I often drop the staysail as the first step. This requires going on deck however. So if I am ever surprised(haven't yet) by bad weather I could furl the genoa from the safety of the cockpit. When we go out with winds exceeding 20kn we leave the staysail covered.
As I own a cutter I often drop the staysail as the first step. This requires going on deck however. So if I am ever surprised(haven't yet) by bad weather I could furl the genoa from the safety of the cockpit. When we go out with winds exceeding 20kn we leave the staysail covered.
Shorten Sail
I shorten the main first beginning at about 17 knots leaving the jib at 100%. I begin reducing the jib at around 20 kts and also reduce more main. The boat balances well with about equal reductions in main and jib in 25+ kts.
I shorten the main first beginning at about 17 knots leaving the jib at 100%. I begin reducing the jib at around 20 kts and also reduce more main. The boat balances well with about equal reductions in main and jib in 25+ kts.
Our 310 finds her groove in about 18knots of wind. After it builds over 20 we then vang sheet the main and when it gets over 24 we'll throw the first reef in them main. Around 28-30 knots of wind is when the 2nd reef comes into play. Vang sheeting allows us to dump more of the main before we need to reef. It's a very efficient method when racing and allows you to keep everything flying.
Two schools of thought
When I get in rough weather in my H33 using a roller-furled 150, I furl it in first because there is a lot of sail out there. If the heel becomes excessive, I reef the main second. A friend that also sails an H33 told me that the genny would give me the power to cut through the waves in a storm, and that I should reef the main first. So far, here on Lake Ontario where weather can build quickly, and waves get high (but much closer together than ocean sailing), I have had no problem furling the genny first. My wife on the other hand, always has an eye on the weather, and I can usually trust her instincts to reef the main BEFORE the storm strikes. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
When I get in rough weather in my H33 using a roller-furled 150, I furl it in first because there is a lot of sail out there. If the heel becomes excessive, I reef the main second. A friend that also sails an H33 told me that the genny would give me the power to cut through the waves in a storm, and that I should reef the main first. So far, here on Lake Ontario where weather can build quickly, and waves get high (but much closer together than ocean sailing), I have had no problem furling the genny first. My wife on the other hand, always has an eye on the weather, and I can usually trust her instincts to reef the main BEFORE the storm strikes. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
each rig has it's own steps
I have a Hunter 27 footer, I have a block sys., not a track for the main, I also have a 4to 1 vang, which I first release to dump the top section of the main, if that doen't work, I reef the main, I have 4 reefs on my main, if I get down to the 2nd reef, I then roll up my genny, and raise my staysail, together with my small 80 sq.ft. staysail, and my dbl reefed main, I can handle conditions up to 35 knots of wind.
I have a Hunter 27 footer, I have a block sys., not a track for the main, I also have a 4to 1 vang, which I first release to dump the top section of the main, if that doen't work, I reef the main, I have 4 reefs on my main, if I get down to the 2nd reef, I then roll up my genny, and raise my staysail, together with my small 80 sq.ft. staysail, and my dbl reefed main, I can handle conditions up to 35 knots of wind.
fire up the iron hog
All of the responses were good and it sounds like a lot of experience out there. My solution when the weather goes south --- Fire up the iron horse and head for cover. I sail the Chasapeake Bay with Wife and two kids. I take the "safe" way out.
All of the responses were good and it sounds like a lot of experience out there. My solution when the weather goes south --- Fire up the iron horse and head for cover. I sail the Chasapeake Bay with Wife and two kids. I take the "safe" way out.
Cutter rig
On our boat we put sail on from the mast forward and reduce it in reverse. The first sail to shorten or dump is the jib. That way our staysail acts as a sort of storm staysail. Next comes the reef in the main. With the jib down we have the remaining sail(main and staysail) closer to the mast and we try to keep a balance between the two by reefing each down as needed. The idea of using the jib to plow through any waves puts an added strain on the back stay unless the main is adjusted to balance out the entire rig... And most importantly, when we get to port we kick back and throw down a couple of cold ones.... Ron
On our boat we put sail on from the mast forward and reduce it in reverse. The first sail to shorten or dump is the jib. That way our staysail acts as a sort of storm staysail. Next comes the reef in the main. With the jib down we have the remaining sail(main and staysail) closer to the mast and we try to keep a balance between the two by reefing each down as needed. The idea of using the jib to plow through any waves puts an added strain on the back stay unless the main is adjusted to balance out the entire rig... And most importantly, when we get to port we kick back and throw down a couple of cold ones.... Ron
Comments on Iron Genny and on Cutter Rig
Although I see nothing wrong with Barry's conservative approach a few things should be kept in mind when wanting to head back into the harbor when the wind and waves pipe up. First of all, your auxiliary engine will only help you if you need to beat directly into wind and seas. On a run or reach in strong winds a properly reefed sail plan should get you to the harbor quite a bit faster than your iron genny will. Even when going to windward, you would normally keep a properly reefed and centered main (and/or centered staysail) up to achieve a more comfortable ride. The worst choice is to drop all sail and motor back. Not only will the motions of the boat tend to be a lot more violent than with the sails up, also the smell, noise and (in summer) heat will tend to make most crew members sick faster than when staying under sail. Moreover, if the harbor happens to be on a lee shore you better know exactly where and how to stick your nose between the piers because you might not get a second chance to do it right. This is especially true if there is a bar or reef passage to be negotiated. Far more boats get into trouble when trying to close with the coast in foul weather than when trying to ride out the storm while keeping plenty of searoom. On a slightly different topic: I do agree with Ron's method of reducing a cutter rig sailplan in such a way that staysail and reefed main remain well balanced. In fact, if you are trying to use a windvane or autopilot in strong winds and seas and do not keep the sailplan well balanced you will soon find yourself handsteering for the rest of the heavy weather episode. Flying Dutchman
Although I see nothing wrong with Barry's conservative approach a few things should be kept in mind when wanting to head back into the harbor when the wind and waves pipe up. First of all, your auxiliary engine will only help you if you need to beat directly into wind and seas. On a run or reach in strong winds a properly reefed sail plan should get you to the harbor quite a bit faster than your iron genny will. Even when going to windward, you would normally keep a properly reefed and centered main (and/or centered staysail) up to achieve a more comfortable ride. The worst choice is to drop all sail and motor back. Not only will the motions of the boat tend to be a lot more violent than with the sails up, also the smell, noise and (in summer) heat will tend to make most crew members sick faster than when staying under sail. Moreover, if the harbor happens to be on a lee shore you better know exactly where and how to stick your nose between the piers because you might not get a second chance to do it right. This is especially true if there is a bar or reef passage to be negotiated. Far more boats get into trouble when trying to close with the coast in foul weather than when trying to ride out the storm while keeping plenty of searoom. On a slightly different topic: I do agree with Ron's method of reducing a cutter rig sailplan in such a way that staysail and reefed main remain well balanced. In fact, if you are trying to use a windvane or autopilot in strong winds and seas and do not keep the sailplan well balanced you will soon find yourself handsteering for the rest of the heavy weather episode. Flying Dutchman
Main First... in most situations
I find that as the wind strengthens into the upper teens my 34 begins to have a tendency to round up. Reducing the 160 furling Genoa reduces the heel but doesn't ease the steering. On the other hand my 34 will sail nicely to windward under full genoa alone. I have also found that when on the wind I can ease the main traveler till the main luffs and then reef or lower the main while continuing to sail under the genoa without having to start the engine and head up into the wind. This way if the weather continues to strengthen it is nice not to have to go back up on deck. Having said that, if a big blow (thirty plus) hits suddenly I would loose the genoa first since it has the most sail area and is easiest to furl.
I find that as the wind strengthens into the upper teens my 34 begins to have a tendency to round up. Reducing the 160 furling Genoa reduces the heel but doesn't ease the steering. On the other hand my 34 will sail nicely to windward under full genoa alone. I have also found that when on the wind I can ease the main traveler till the main luffs and then reef or lower the main while continuing to sail under the genoa without having to start the engine and head up into the wind. This way if the weather continues to strengthen it is nice not to have to go back up on deck. Having said that, if a big blow (thirty plus) hits suddenly I would loose the genoa first since it has the most sail area and is easiest to furl.
Normally Head Sail First
As most of us Great Lakes sailors know, the winds and the seas can build up quickly. I normally sail, single handed, with a full battened main and a 155 Genoa (roller furler). If the winds build to where heel is excessive, the first sail I deal with is the Genoa. Furling is easily and safely accomplished from the confines of the cockpit. My boat handles nicely in 15 to 20 knots of wind with the genoa furled into it is equivalent (roughly so) to about a 110 Genoa. 22 knots of wind warrants further reduction and any more results in a reefed main. I have a jiffy reef system but even this can be a bear when sailing alone. Needless to say I wear a safety harness and PFD(I have an inflatable PFD which is worn at all times). If the wind is up before I leave port, I reef the main before going out under the theory that a reef is easier to shake out then put in. Winds reported to be above 15 knots lead me to the reef early scenario. Storms are another thing. Because I single hand, if I see the storm coming, the main comes down. The head sail (at least for me) can then be safely handled and adjusted to a needed size. In fact, I often sail with the head sail alone (no work, the boat handles unusually well with just the head sail, and I guess that I am basically lazy). Preparedness is the key and this means, at least to me, paying attention to local weather patterns and reports, keeping an eye on the horizon watching for suspect cloud formations and reefing early. I rarely go out without listening to the marine forcast for our area first. One more thing, preparedness is enhanced with practice and that practice is best accomplished when conditions are favorable. Practice reefing at the dock, practice it on open water when the seas are relatively calm and the winds light. It, like man overboard recoveries, docking and mooring/anchoring, is a technique and techniques are mastered through practice. Above all, remain calm and focused. Do not do anything in haste even if you have to force yourself to slow down.
As most of us Great Lakes sailors know, the winds and the seas can build up quickly. I normally sail, single handed, with a full battened main and a 155 Genoa (roller furler). If the winds build to where heel is excessive, the first sail I deal with is the Genoa. Furling is easily and safely accomplished from the confines of the cockpit. My boat handles nicely in 15 to 20 knots of wind with the genoa furled into it is equivalent (roughly so) to about a 110 Genoa. 22 knots of wind warrants further reduction and any more results in a reefed main. I have a jiffy reef system but even this can be a bear when sailing alone. Needless to say I wear a safety harness and PFD(I have an inflatable PFD which is worn at all times). If the wind is up before I leave port, I reef the main before going out under the theory that a reef is easier to shake out then put in. Winds reported to be above 15 knots lead me to the reef early scenario. Storms are another thing. Because I single hand, if I see the storm coming, the main comes down. The head sail (at least for me) can then be safely handled and adjusted to a needed size. In fact, I often sail with the head sail alone (no work, the boat handles unusually well with just the head sail, and I guess that I am basically lazy). Preparedness is the key and this means, at least to me, paying attention to local weather patterns and reports, keeping an eye on the horizon watching for suspect cloud formations and reefing early. I rarely go out without listening to the marine forcast for our area first. One more thing, preparedness is enhanced with practice and that practice is best accomplished when conditions are favorable. Practice reefing at the dock, practice it on open water when the seas are relatively calm and the winds light. It, like man overboard recoveries, docking and mooring/anchoring, is a technique and techniques are mastered through practice. Above all, remain calm and focused. Do not do anything in haste even if you have to force yourself to slow down.
Shortening Sail
I normally find myself going to the first reef at about 12 to 15 MPH steady.. At around (steady) 15+ MPH I will go to the second reef.. I can only remember going to the second reef once in five seasons... Another way I judge the time to reef depends on who is on board... ie: If we have people not used to sailing I'll shorten earlier.. Or, if the wind and sea conditions keep the person at the helm fighting it I'll shorten sail... There have been times I've sailed on the Jib only and was surprised how well it sailed however the sea conditions were not heavy...
I normally find myself going to the first reef at about 12 to 15 MPH steady.. At around (steady) 15+ MPH I will go to the second reef.. I can only remember going to the second reef once in five seasons... Another way I judge the time to reef depends on who is on board... ie: If we have people not used to sailing I'll shorten earlier.. Or, if the wind and sea conditions keep the person at the helm fighting it I'll shorten sail... There have been times I've sailed on the Jib only and was surprised how well it sailed however the sea conditions were not heavy...
try leaning way over
without roller furling ? ever try to change out a jib while heeling 45-60 degrees. if we are talking about the same heavy weather im reefing the main first.
without roller furling ? ever try to change out a jib while heeling 45-60 degrees. if we are talking about the same heavy weather im reefing the main first.
The bigger one first , of course..
On B&R rig with around 100% jib , that means..shorthen the main first .Otherways , with big Genoas , headsail will go first. On most standard sailboats (and mine 29.5) , one go to first reef at around 15 kts, to second reef at 20-22 kts and up (when I might start reefing the jib too) , and to third reef ( self added on ) on 30+ kts , fortunately very . rarely needed , mostly on offshore long distance cruising.. Some heavy-long distance cruisers of conservative design usually keep unreefed main till 20 kts of wind.
On B&R rig with around 100% jib , that means..shorthen the main first .Otherways , with big Genoas , headsail will go first. On most standard sailboats (and mine 29.5) , one go to first reef at around 15 kts, to second reef at 20-22 kts and up (when I might start reefing the jib too) , and to third reef ( self added on ) on 30+ kts , fortunately very . rarely needed , mostly on offshore long distance cruising.. Some heavy-long distance cruisers of conservative design usually keep unreefed main till 20 kts of wind.
WHY do we shorten sail?
A lot of informative answers have already been given in this thread. However, before anyone comes to the conclusion that shortening sail is supposed to be some kind of one-routine-fits-all, knee-jerk-type procedure I would like to suggest a flexible and adaptable response, especially for the more experienced sailor. What do you hope to achieve foremost by shortening sail in a given situation? This question needs to be asked first. In my experience, the five most common reasons to shorten sail are: (1) to reduce excessive heeling [since that reduces comfort, increases anxiety and compromises many aspects of personal safety; while usually accompanied by (2)]; (2) to reduce weather helm [since it fatigues the helmsman, may induce a broach and tends to thwart the use of autopilots and windvanes while straining rudder and steering gear]; (3) to reduce speed [since one might otherwise arrive too early, fatigue an inexperienced helmsman, slam too much, troll the tuna bait too fast or risk high speed collisions, e.g. in poor visibility]; (4) to protect against expected squalls and gusts [e.g. in particularly squally conditions and regions; or simply during the night]; (5) to protect a weakened sail, mast, shroud, stay or rudder. Only after you have made up your mind what it is that you are trying to achieve foremost of all you are ready to determine wether shortening sail is the best response indeed and, if so, which sail(s) should be shortened first. For instance, it might not be such a hot idea to shorten a headsail first if you are only trying to reduce weather helm so the autopilot can do its job better. On the other hand it might not be the best idea to shorten a nicely flattened mainsail with a properly vanged and sheeted boom which allows the leach to spill air at the top while your tired, baggy masthead genoa refuses to be flattened and causes most of the heeling (and thereby weather helm). Besides needing to know what you are trying to achieve by shortening sail, you also have to consider such issues as which point of sail would serve your purpose best, how much drive you can afford to lose before you could no longer punch through heavy seas, or how much pointing ability (and drive) you are going to need to stay off a lee shore or shallow reef area before choosing a new, shortened sail plan. Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II" (Hunter Legend 43, hull #1)
A lot of informative answers have already been given in this thread. However, before anyone comes to the conclusion that shortening sail is supposed to be some kind of one-routine-fits-all, knee-jerk-type procedure I would like to suggest a flexible and adaptable response, especially for the more experienced sailor. What do you hope to achieve foremost by shortening sail in a given situation? This question needs to be asked first. In my experience, the five most common reasons to shorten sail are: (1) to reduce excessive heeling [since that reduces comfort, increases anxiety and compromises many aspects of personal safety; while usually accompanied by (2)]; (2) to reduce weather helm [since it fatigues the helmsman, may induce a broach and tends to thwart the use of autopilots and windvanes while straining rudder and steering gear]; (3) to reduce speed [since one might otherwise arrive too early, fatigue an inexperienced helmsman, slam too much, troll the tuna bait too fast or risk high speed collisions, e.g. in poor visibility]; (4) to protect against expected squalls and gusts [e.g. in particularly squally conditions and regions; or simply during the night]; (5) to protect a weakened sail, mast, shroud, stay or rudder. Only after you have made up your mind what it is that you are trying to achieve foremost of all you are ready to determine wether shortening sail is the best response indeed and, if so, which sail(s) should be shortened first. For instance, it might not be such a hot idea to shorten a headsail first if you are only trying to reduce weather helm so the autopilot can do its job better. On the other hand it might not be the best idea to shorten a nicely flattened mainsail with a properly vanged and sheeted boom which allows the leach to spill air at the top while your tired, baggy masthead genoa refuses to be flattened and causes most of the heeling (and thereby weather helm). Besides needing to know what you are trying to achieve by shortening sail, you also have to consider such issues as which point of sail would serve your purpose best, how much drive you can afford to lose before you could no longer punch through heavy seas, or how much pointing ability (and drive) you are going to need to stay off a lee shore or shallow reef area before choosing a new, shortened sail plan. Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II" (Hunter Legend 43, hull #1)
many factors to consider
Many factors to consider such as type of rig(ie masthead, fractional, cutter) as well as sea conditions and point of sail. If I get underway in heavy weather I start with a reefed main only. I usually reef the jib first as my legend 40 sails quite well on the main alone. Of course like anyone else I try to beat the weather by shortening sail early. I prefer to shorten sail before nightfall if in doubt about the weather or singlehanding. My boat sails well with both reefed main and jib on most points, however it does not sail as well with just the jib reefed as it does on a reefed main alone. The iron genny may work well on the Cheasapeake, but you better carry a lot of fuel if you are a few hundred miles from shore. Even when under power in heavy weather I like to carry a little jib to stabilize the boat. As far as when to reef it depends mostly on the boat and crew, my legend 40 can carry the main and full 110 jib in 15 kts with no problem. When I owned a 34 I would reef at 15kts. Every boat is different, and each situation may call for different options. So be safe and if in doubt, shorten sail.
Many factors to consider such as type of rig(ie masthead, fractional, cutter) as well as sea conditions and point of sail. If I get underway in heavy weather I start with a reefed main only. I usually reef the jib first as my legend 40 sails quite well on the main alone. Of course like anyone else I try to beat the weather by shortening sail early. I prefer to shorten sail before nightfall if in doubt about the weather or singlehanding. My boat sails well with both reefed main and jib on most points, however it does not sail as well with just the jib reefed as it does on a reefed main alone. The iron genny may work well on the Cheasapeake, but you better carry a lot of fuel if you are a few hundred miles from shore. Even when under power in heavy weather I like to carry a little jib to stabilize the boat. As far as when to reef it depends mostly on the boat and crew, my legend 40 can carry the main and full 110 jib in 15 kts with no problem. When I owned a 34 I would reef at 15kts. Every boat is different, and each situation may call for different options. So be safe and if in doubt, shorten sail.
Final results
Final results for the Quick Quiz w/e 2/7/00: When the wind kicks up which do you shorten first? 62% Head sail (570) 38% Main sail (348)
Final results for the Quick Quiz w/e 2/7/00: When the wind kicks up which do you shorten first? 62% Head sail (570) 38% Main sail (348)
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