Wonder if a fellow owner may have some input .... Kim and I have a Beneteau Oceanis 361 (#329). Kismet has been suffering continuously from heavy steering since she was splashed in April of this year. This week she will be hauled for inspection and installation of fresh rudder bearings. "Heavy" means that it requires all fingers from one or two hands to keep the boat on course. When the boat has had a good day only one finger at the end of a spoke would be needed. Steps taken so far: autopilot drive unit disconnected from quadrant to verify that it is not the problem, steering cables disconnected from wheel to verify that wheel and brake are not the problem, all panels and hatches opened to verify that nothing is rubbing on quadrant, cables, pulleys, wheel, shafts, etc., we have nothing jammed between rudder and hull, inspection of rudder on several occasions has shown no indications of damage such as grounding while backing. Further observations: heavy steering has been an on again, off again problem with this boat since purchase in 2004. We are the second owners and purchased the boat in 2005. Boat was originally commisioned in 2004 on San Francisco Bay. From purchase in June 2005 until boat was relocated to Lake Michigan in June 2006 there would occasionally be a day of heavy steering. Steering effort would build during the day's sail. Often, the next day, the steering would be fine. I'd never know how she would steer from one day to the next. After recommisioning in Lake Michigan in 2006 the steering was perfect with never a bad day. Boat was hauled in October 2006 for the winter. Upon splashing this spring the steering was found to be always heavy. Other tidbits: First 40.7's are said to have a similar symptom when they are left in the water and not used. However, the 361 is supposed to use different rudder components. Early 361's (before #250) had similar symptoms due to water swelling rudder components. However, the boat in question is #329 and was built with rudder components from a different source. I know where the problem is, but not what the problem is. I'll know more this Thursday when she's hauled.
Heavy Steering on Beneteau 361
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Hull 251
Looks like we just made the cut with hull #251. Our's is a 2002 and I've never had any issues with heavy steering. Actually she has a very light feel to her. We did have some superficial blisters after the first year which Beneteau repaired under warranty. It was an isue where the company that laid up the rudders didn't finish the outer layer properly. The blisters never penetrated the sub surface. That problem would not have caused heavy steering though. Keep us posted as to the cause and remedy, plus any warranty support provided by Beneteau. Good luck!
Looks like we just made the cut with hull #251. Our's is a 2002 and I've never had any issues with heavy steering. Actually she has a very light feel to her. We did have some superficial blisters after the first year which Beneteau repaired under warranty. It was an isue where the company that laid up the rudders didn't finish the outer layer properly. The blisters never penetrated the sub surface. That problem would not have caused heavy steering though. Keep us posted as to the cause and remedy, plus any warranty support provided by Beneteau. Good luck!
Hull #210
My 2002 Beneteau 361 hull #210 has never experienced a problem as described. I would not think it's a design issue.
My 2002 Beneteau 361 hull #210 has never experienced a problem as described. I would not think it's a design issue.
Rudder bearings will swell
Gary, I just recently started to experience the same symptoms that you are having (hull #313). A co-worker and friend of mine that is a naval architect and designs custom racing sailboats told me what the problem was. The rudder bearings which are made of delrin swelled enough to bind slightly on the rudder post. Delrin and to a lesser extent nylon will swell if consciously immersed in water. The bearings are initially lubed from the factory with a water resistant grease as the grease slowly washes away the lower bearing will swell. He suggested that I temporarily add ballast to the bow in order to get the rudder bearing out of the water to verify this. After five days I went back to the boat and the rudder moved as easy as ever. I’m not sure just yet what I’m going to do, but the options are: drop the rudder and re-grease the bearing every couple of years (least desirable); hone the bearing (maybe, it shouldn’t take much) or maybe replace the bearing with some roller bearing (most labor intensive but the best option) Regards, Mark
Gary, I just recently started to experience the same symptoms that you are having (hull #313). A co-worker and friend of mine that is a naval architect and designs custom racing sailboats told me what the problem was. The rudder bearings which are made of delrin swelled enough to bind slightly on the rudder post. Delrin and to a lesser extent nylon will swell if consciously immersed in water. The bearings are initially lubed from the factory with a water resistant grease as the grease slowly washes away the lower bearing will swell. He suggested that I temporarily add ballast to the bow in order to get the rudder bearing out of the water to verify this. After five days I went back to the boat and the rudder moved as easy as ever. I’m not sure just yet what I’m going to do, but the options are: drop the rudder and re-grease the bearing every couple of years (least desirable); hone the bearing (maybe, it shouldn’t take much) or maybe replace the bearing with some roller bearing (most labor intensive but the best option) Regards, Mark
Input from Beneteau?
What if any input have you solicited from Beneteau? Are they willing to do anything to assist?
What if any input have you solicited from Beneteau? Are they willing to do anything to assist?
Follow-up after the haul-out
Beneteau 361 hull #329 was hauled on Thursday and splashed on Friday. In brief, the heavy steering was caused by the upper bearing. Kismet is now back in the water with the lightest, sweetest wheel feel that I've ever experienced in a cable steered boat. Please read on for details ... Removal of quadrant and other hardware at the top of the rudder stock was straight forward, though tedious and sweaty work for the mechanics. Removal of the rudder, however, was a pisser! It took two guys about fifteen minutes of grunting and swearing to work the rudder free. They turned the blade about 90 degrees at a time while pulling down with all their might. Each cycle of turn and return lowered the assembly perhaps 1/8 inch. Eventually the rudder assembly was free. As predicted by Beneteau the lower bronze bearing was loose and came out with the rudder assembly. The spacer ring located between the lower bearing and the rudder blade also came out with the rudder assembly. Rudder assembly, bronze bearing and spacer ring were all in good condition. That was the easy part!! Removal of the upper bearing alone required several additional man-hours. Without listing every incremental step in escalating force/attack allow me to list the use of: hydraulic car jack, boat stands, reciprocating saw, industrial drill and a gallon of sweat. Saw and drill were used to remove material so as to reduce hoop stress in the bearing. Eventually the bearing released it's tenacious grip about 11:00 a.m. on Thursday morning. Re-assembly with all new bearing components was very straight forward and easy up to the point of reattaching all the hardware at the top of the rudder stock. Hull tube and rudder stock were sanded with 500 grit and cleaned with acetone. Both bearings were lubed with white lithium grease. Upper bearing was secured with a low strength silicone sealant and lower bearing with 3M 5200 adhesive. I drove Kismet away from the slings about 1:30 and found I only had to brush one finger across the wheel rim to steer her. Fantastic!! I will be appealing to Beneteau for some type of compensation as this was a design or material quality issue, not a wear, abuse or other such thing. I would love to include the name, hull number and contact information of any other 361 owner that has had similar issues in my correspondence with Beneteau. Feel free to pass along my e-mail address: garytabor2002@yahoo.com Happy sailing! Regards, Gary
Beneteau 361 hull #329 was hauled on Thursday and splashed on Friday. In brief, the heavy steering was caused by the upper bearing. Kismet is now back in the water with the lightest, sweetest wheel feel that I've ever experienced in a cable steered boat. Please read on for details ... Removal of quadrant and other hardware at the top of the rudder stock was straight forward, though tedious and sweaty work for the mechanics. Removal of the rudder, however, was a pisser! It took two guys about fifteen minutes of grunting and swearing to work the rudder free. They turned the blade about 90 degrees at a time while pulling down with all their might. Each cycle of turn and return lowered the assembly perhaps 1/8 inch. Eventually the rudder assembly was free. As predicted by Beneteau the lower bronze bearing was loose and came out with the rudder assembly. The spacer ring located between the lower bearing and the rudder blade also came out with the rudder assembly. Rudder assembly, bronze bearing and spacer ring were all in good condition. That was the easy part!! Removal of the upper bearing alone required several additional man-hours. Without listing every incremental step in escalating force/attack allow me to list the use of: hydraulic car jack, boat stands, reciprocating saw, industrial drill and a gallon of sweat. Saw and drill were used to remove material so as to reduce hoop stress in the bearing. Eventually the bearing released it's tenacious grip about 11:00 a.m. on Thursday morning. Re-assembly with all new bearing components was very straight forward and easy up to the point of reattaching all the hardware at the top of the rudder stock. Hull tube and rudder stock were sanded with 500 grit and cleaned with acetone. Both bearings were lubed with white lithium grease. Upper bearing was secured with a low strength silicone sealant and lower bearing with 3M 5200 adhesive. I drove Kismet away from the slings about 1:30 and found I only had to brush one finger across the wheel rim to steer her. Fantastic!! I will be appealing to Beneteau for some type of compensation as this was a design or material quality issue, not a wear, abuse or other such thing. I would love to include the name, hull number and contact information of any other 361 owner that has had similar issues in my correspondence with Beneteau. Feel free to pass along my e-mail address: garytabor2002@yahoo.com Happy sailing! Regards, Gary
Beneteau 361 heavy steering
Mark, I just posted a follow-up to my heavy steering post from earlier in the week (see below). The issue with our boat was a design flaw or a quality control issue involving the upper rudder bearing. I intend to take this matter up with Beneteau to see how firmly they stand behind their product. I'd love to include your name, hull number and contact information in my correspondence to make it clear to Beneteau that this was not a 'one time thing' with hull #329. In addition to your input, today I spoke with another 361 owner in Chicago that is having identical symptoms. Steve in Chicago said he was aware of yet another boat with the problem. However you proceed, make sure you get the old bearing parts in your posession. They'll be good back-up when you have your chat with Beneteau. Regards, Gary Tabor p.s. feel free to contact me directly at: garytabor2002@yahoo.com sailnet post follows: Beneteau 361 hull #329 was hauled on Thursday and splashed on Friday. In brief, the heavy steering was caused by the upper bearing. Kismet is now back in the water with the lightest, sweetest wheel feel that I've ever experienced in a cable steered boat. Please read on for details ... Removal of quadrant and other hardware at the top of the rudder stock was straight forward, though tedious and sweaty work for the mechanics. Removal of the rudder, however, was a pisser! It took two guys about fifteen minutes of grunting and swearing to work the rudder free. They turned the blade about 90 degrees at a time while pulling down with all their might. Each cycle of turn and return lowered the assembly perhaps 1/8 inch. Eventually the rudder assembly was free. As predicted by Beneteau the lower bronze bearing was loose and came out with the rudder assembly. The spacer ring located between the lower bearing and the rudder blade also came out with the rudder assembly. Rudder assembly, bronze bearing and spacer ring were all in good condition. That was the easy part!! Removal of the upper bearing alone required several additional man-hours. Without listing every incremental step in escalating force/attack allow me to list the use of: hydraulic car jack, boat stands, reciprocating saw, industrial drill and a gallon of sweat. Saw and drill were used to remove material so as to reduce hoop stress in the bearing. Eventually the bearing released it's tenacious grip about 11:00 a.m. on Thursday morning. Re-assembly with all new bearing components was very straight forward and easy up to the point of reattaching all the hardware at the top of the rudder stock. Hull tube and rudder stock were sanded with 500 grit and cleaned with acetone. Both bearings were lubed with white lithium grease. Upper bearing was secured with a low strength silicone sealant and lower bearing with 3M 5200 adhesive. I drove Kismet away from the slings about 1:30 and found I only had to brush one finger across the wheel rim to steer her. Fantastic!! I will be appealing to Beneteau for some type of compensation as this was a design or material quality issue, not a wear, abuse or other such thing. I would love to include the name, hull number and contact information of any other 361 owner that has had similar issues in my correspondence with Beneteau. Feel free to pass along my e-mail address: garytabor2002@yahoo.com Happy sailing! Regards, Gary
Mark, I just posted a follow-up to my heavy steering post from earlier in the week (see below). The issue with our boat was a design flaw or a quality control issue involving the upper rudder bearing. I intend to take this matter up with Beneteau to see how firmly they stand behind their product. I'd love to include your name, hull number and contact information in my correspondence to make it clear to Beneteau that this was not a 'one time thing' with hull #329. In addition to your input, today I spoke with another 361 owner in Chicago that is having identical symptoms. Steve in Chicago said he was aware of yet another boat with the problem. However you proceed, make sure you get the old bearing parts in your posession. They'll be good back-up when you have your chat with Beneteau. Regards, Gary Tabor p.s. feel free to contact me directly at: garytabor2002@yahoo.com sailnet post follows: Beneteau 361 hull #329 was hauled on Thursday and splashed on Friday. In brief, the heavy steering was caused by the upper bearing. Kismet is now back in the water with the lightest, sweetest wheel feel that I've ever experienced in a cable steered boat. Please read on for details ... Removal of quadrant and other hardware at the top of the rudder stock was straight forward, though tedious and sweaty work for the mechanics. Removal of the rudder, however, was a pisser! It took two guys about fifteen minutes of grunting and swearing to work the rudder free. They turned the blade about 90 degrees at a time while pulling down with all their might. Each cycle of turn and return lowered the assembly perhaps 1/8 inch. Eventually the rudder assembly was free. As predicted by Beneteau the lower bronze bearing was loose and came out with the rudder assembly. The spacer ring located between the lower bearing and the rudder blade also came out with the rudder assembly. Rudder assembly, bronze bearing and spacer ring were all in good condition. That was the easy part!! Removal of the upper bearing alone required several additional man-hours. Without listing every incremental step in escalating force/attack allow me to list the use of: hydraulic car jack, boat stands, reciprocating saw, industrial drill and a gallon of sweat. Saw and drill were used to remove material so as to reduce hoop stress in the bearing. Eventually the bearing released it's tenacious grip about 11:00 a.m. on Thursday morning. Re-assembly with all new bearing components was very straight forward and easy up to the point of reattaching all the hardware at the top of the rudder stock. Hull tube and rudder stock were sanded with 500 grit and cleaned with acetone. Both bearings were lubed with white lithium grease. Upper bearing was secured with a low strength silicone sealant and lower bearing with 3M 5200 adhesive. I drove Kismet away from the slings about 1:30 and found I only had to brush one finger across the wheel rim to steer her. Fantastic!! I will be appealing to Beneteau for some type of compensation as this was a design or material quality issue, not a wear, abuse or other such thing. I would love to include the name, hull number and contact information of any other 361 owner that has had similar issues in my correspondence with Beneteau. Feel free to pass along my e-mail address: garytabor2002@yahoo.com Happy sailing! Regards, Gary
No problems so far
Gary, yes I have a 2002, 361 it's hull #251. So far we've not experienced any of the issues you've detailed, steering is light and easy. As it appears to be an issue with 361s I'm interested in the outcome, should things change for me. By the way, for what it's worth, we only haul her for bottom painting. Otherwise she stays in the water all year round. Not sure this would/could make a difference. I suspect not but figured I'd mention it anyway. Good luck with Beneteau and let us know how you make out with them. Thanks Mike
Gary, yes I have a 2002, 361 it's hull #251. So far we've not experienced any of the issues you've detailed, steering is light and easy. As it appears to be an issue with 361s I'm interested in the outcome, should things change for me. By the way, for what it's worth, we only haul her for bottom painting. Otherwise she stays in the water all year round. Not sure this would/could make a difference. I suspect not but figured I'd mention it anyway. Good luck with Beneteau and let us know how you make out with them. Thanks Mike
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