I apologize for how specific my prior posting was. I am currently interested in the Espar forced air heater because it seems to provide the best heat. However, the price tag is 5500 for a total install on the 40. All you cold weather liveaboards, how do you heat for the winter?? The best idea wins a cylinder of hard to find CNG!!! Kidding. But, please, any input would be great. I am dying over whether to sign my life away and keep warm, or to keep the financial possibility of having a family open in my future. Thanks SEAN HAVEN
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basics
CNG (compressed natural gas) is not that hard to find_ My experience is with small boats _ hunter 30 but I will tell you what I have experience for what it's worth. You are unclear as to whether you have shore power or not, and if you do not your selections are limited and the cost are before you. If you have shore power and do not like to live with the constant fear of the boat burning down every time you are ashore for more the 45 minutes_ then you could use what I have found to work well_ 1_ electric oil filled radiator. Cheap, works well, safe, turns off if tipped over and is warm _ nice and warm. 2_ To heat stuff up in a hurry I built something that may require a little more then you might want to get involved with, I sorta went a little bit overboard on the safety aspects of the design. I took a blower/heater assembly from dishwasher and converted it into a little forced air-heating system located in the main galley cabinetry, blowing down the center of the boat. This involved the selection of the proper fan to give a full temp discharge of 110 degree f. at about 120 acfm. It is attached to a thermostat and an over temperature cut out. Can warm the cabin of the H30 up from 45 to 70 in about 15 min. (never leave it on when I am not around) Cost _ oil filled radiator_ walmart 59.00 Cost _ forced air 20.00 and a little engineering Being a small boat owner I realize that these sort of investments may not fit into the required profile of you big boat guys
_ but I be warm. terry s/v stardust
CNG (compressed natural gas) is not that hard to find_ My experience is with small boats _ hunter 30 but I will tell you what I have experience for what it's worth. You are unclear as to whether you have shore power or not, and if you do not your selections are limited and the cost are before you. If you have shore power and do not like to live with the constant fear of the boat burning down every time you are ashore for more the 45 minutes_ then you could use what I have found to work well_ 1_ electric oil filled radiator. Cheap, works well, safe, turns off if tipped over and is warm _ nice and warm. 2_ To heat stuff up in a hurry I built something that may require a little more then you might want to get involved with, I sorta went a little bit overboard on the safety aspects of the design. I took a blower/heater assembly from dishwasher and converted it into a little forced air-heating system located in the main galley cabinetry, blowing down the center of the boat. This involved the selection of the proper fan to give a full temp discharge of 110 degree f. at about 120 acfm. It is attached to a thermostat and an over temperature cut out. Can warm the cabin of the H30 up from 45 to 70 in about 15 min. (never leave it on when I am not around) Cost _ oil filled radiator_ walmart 59.00 Cost _ forced air 20.00 and a little engineering Being a small boat owner I realize that these sort of investments may not fit into the required profile of you big boat guys
_ but I be warm. terry s/v stardust
diesel water heating
my diesel furnace heats water, which circulates through the boat. It is linked to the engine cooling system via a heat exchanger, and then connects to the water heater in the potable water system. For cabin heat, it links to a radiator-type heater which has an independent thermostat hooked up to a 12 volt blower. I have the option of heating the cabin via either the engine or the furnace, and have three means of heating hot water: engine heat, furnace heat, or shore power AC. During the summer months, I can shut down the valves leading to the radiator, and can then have a hot shower while at anchor without having to run the engine. The water lines run under the cabin sole, which means that during the winter I can walk through the boat with bare feet and the boards feel warm. The furnace can also be used to pre-heat the engine, which becomes something of a giant heat sink in the middle of the boat.........Since we anchor out most weekends, the diesel water heater has turned out to be an ideal solution for us. The furnace itself, a webasto, is smaller than a toaster and uses very little fuel. While it is not quiet, it seems less noisy than the forced-air systems. The DC power draw is negligable. It required about 40 hours of labor to install, and cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000, labor included. The only drawback is that when we're sharing a winter anchorage with friends, the party always seems to end up in our cabin. Always.
my diesel furnace heats water, which circulates through the boat. It is linked to the engine cooling system via a heat exchanger, and then connects to the water heater in the potable water system. For cabin heat, it links to a radiator-type heater which has an independent thermostat hooked up to a 12 volt blower. I have the option of heating the cabin via either the engine or the furnace, and have three means of heating hot water: engine heat, furnace heat, or shore power AC. During the summer months, I can shut down the valves leading to the radiator, and can then have a hot shower while at anchor without having to run the engine. The water lines run under the cabin sole, which means that during the winter I can walk through the boat with bare feet and the boards feel warm. The furnace can also be used to pre-heat the engine, which becomes something of a giant heat sink in the middle of the boat.........Since we anchor out most weekends, the diesel water heater has turned out to be an ideal solution for us. The furnace itself, a webasto, is smaller than a toaster and uses very little fuel. While it is not quiet, it seems less noisy than the forced-air systems. The DC power draw is negligable. It required about 40 hours of labor to install, and cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000, labor included. The only drawback is that when we're sharing a winter anchorage with friends, the party always seems to end up in our cabin. Always.
Keeping Warm
I lived aboard our H-34 one winter and have stretched the sailing season many times since. If you have shore power, electic oil-filled radiators are a good choice. I used two. They took up room, but were safe to leave unattended for several days at a time. When it got really cold, a fan assisted electric heater was also called into play. I now have a reverse cycle Marine Air system that is more compact and energy efficient for stretching the sailing season, but I have no idea how it would work in February when the water gets cold. The H-40 has a much larger volume to heat, so you may need more BTUs than a typical shore power connection can deliver. I know it was a problem for me at the marina where I stayed. For heat on the hook, I think John's solution is by far the best.
I lived aboard our H-34 one winter and have stretched the sailing season many times since. If you have shore power, electic oil-filled radiators are a good choice. I used two. They took up room, but were safe to leave unattended for several days at a time. When it got really cold, a fan assisted electric heater was also called into play. I now have a reverse cycle Marine Air system that is more compact and energy efficient for stretching the sailing season, but I have no idea how it would work in February when the water gets cold. The H-40 has a much larger volume to heat, so you may need more BTUs than a typical shore power connection can deliver. I know it was a problem for me at the marina where I stayed. For heat on the hook, I think John's solution is by far the best.
Espar is good too
When we purchased our '89 - H40 it came equipt with a Espar forced air heater. It is efficient and so far maintenance free. It, however, is due soon for some maintenance cleaning of the ignitor area and the noise is also noticable. It was installed in the aft area below the aft lockers. The cabin heats up well in the cool NW fall and spring evenings and seems to be a good forced air heat solution.
When we purchased our '89 - H40 it came equipt with a Espar forced air heater. It is efficient and so far maintenance free. It, however, is due soon for some maintenance cleaning of the ignitor area and the noise is also noticable. It was installed in the aft area below the aft lockers. The cabin heats up well in the cool NW fall and spring evenings and seems to be a good forced air heat solution.
We have an Espar on our H40
I installed our forced air Espar on our Hunter 40 for @ $3500. It was not cheap or easy, but the end result is nice warm and dry winters. My wife and I live aboard all year. I looked at water heater types, but they require small fans in each cabin (i.e., more DC power required) and a maze of pipes. In addition, the forced air heater draws outside air into the cabin to help dry out everything. This is very important.
I installed our forced air Espar on our Hunter 40 for @ $3500. It was not cheap or easy, but the end result is nice warm and dry winters. My wife and I live aboard all year. I looked at water heater types, but they require small fans in each cabin (i.e., more DC power required) and a maze of pipes. In addition, the forced air heater draws outside air into the cabin to help dry out everything. This is very important.
trade offs
Yes, as Terrance indicates, there is a trade-off. A forced-air system dries the boat better, which would be an important consideration in the Pacific Northwest. On the other hand, a coolant system gives you the opportunity to take hot showers while out on the hook without having to run the engine. (Also gives you warm air when motoring without having to run the furnace, and also pre-heats the engine.) Either system is a hassle to install, because one has to run either ducting or plumbing throughout the boat. Neither system is quiet, especially if the furnace is mounted in a lazarette. (A buddy of mine with a steel-hulled powerboat complains that his forced-air heater makes more noise than his engine, thanks to a lead-lined engine room. Sigh.) But the nice thing about both systems is that we'll have an alternative to electric heat should Y2k do its thing next week. Topped off the diesel yesterday, and am ready for anything this side of snow. I guess that's the one downside to any diesel heating system: my 50 gallon fuel tank seemed plenty big until I installed the furnace, which draws between 5 and 10 gallons per week during the cold snaps. Nothing to complain about, though, because the furnace on the mega-yacht side-tied to the end of my dock here in Redwood City consumes 20-30 gallons PER DAY during the winter. Yikes.
Yes, as Terrance indicates, there is a trade-off. A forced-air system dries the boat better, which would be an important consideration in the Pacific Northwest. On the other hand, a coolant system gives you the opportunity to take hot showers while out on the hook without having to run the engine. (Also gives you warm air when motoring without having to run the furnace, and also pre-heats the engine.) Either system is a hassle to install, because one has to run either ducting or plumbing throughout the boat. Neither system is quiet, especially if the furnace is mounted in a lazarette. (A buddy of mine with a steel-hulled powerboat complains that his forced-air heater makes more noise than his engine, thanks to a lead-lined engine room. Sigh.) But the nice thing about both systems is that we'll have an alternative to electric heat should Y2k do its thing next week. Topped off the diesel yesterday, and am ready for anything this side of snow. I guess that's the one downside to any diesel heating system: my 50 gallon fuel tank seemed plenty big until I installed the furnace, which draws between 5 and 10 gallons per week during the cold snaps. Nothing to complain about, though, because the furnace on the mega-yacht side-tied to the end of my dock here in Redwood City consumes 20-30 gallons PER DAY during the winter. Yikes.
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