headsail options

[kpgraci]

I've got a hanked on jib now and I'm looking into going with a furling system. It seems the CDI FF2 or Harken #00 furler is appropriate for my boat, fine. Now to the sail. I've looked around the Internet and came to the conclusion that it would be more informative to just ask someone about this. I'm confuse about the anotomy of furling headsails.

luff tape - what is it and why would I want it. what are the alternatives?

I know furling sails have a UV strip that protects them when furled, this must go on the leech so this is another difference from a hanked on sail.

So what do I need to know about furled headsails?

 

[Indysailor]

Luff tape is used instead of hanks on a furling headsail. It's similar to having a bolt rope sewn into the luff of a mainsail. There are different sizes of luff tape, to match the size of the slot in the furler. Foam is often sewn into the luff tape so that the sail maintains a better shape if partially furled, so that you could purchase a 150% genoa, with the capability to reef it down to a scrap if need be.
I don't have luff foam in my sail, but the system can't be partially furled anyway, so I don't have experience with how well it really works.

 

[kpgraci]

I don't have luff foam in my sail, but the system can't be partially furled anyway, so I don't have experience with how well it really works.

Right. These small furlers are not intended for reefing (although I don't quite understand why not) so a foam luff is of no advantage.

 

[Brian S]

Not sure what boat you have. I have a 192, and I was discussing roller furling and reefing with a well respected sail dealer who knows a lot about small boats. She recommended the Shaeffer Snap Furl system to me, said she likes it better than the CDI.

If you get a 135% or more, and you intend to use it reefed on a furler that can do reefing, you might also ask your sailmaker to add reinforcements in 2 or 3 positions where you are likely to reef. Ie, on a 135% have reinforced at 100% and storm jib size...

Also, a sail for roller reefing should be cut specifically for a furler, in that it will be flatter than a hank on jib.

Brian

 

[kpgraci]

Not sure what boat you have. I have a 192, and I was discussing roller furling and reefing with a well respected sail dealer who knows a lot about small boats. She recommended the Shaeffer Snap Furl system to me, said she likes it better than the CDI.

I have an ODay 22 masthead rig.

I am looking at the three furlers:

Harkin 436
CDI FF2
Shaeffer CF-500 (snapfurl)

All about the same price. The Harkin seems to have no foil, but special requirements about the luff wire attachments at the head and tack.

I found a small boat furrling system from harkin (the 00AL series) that allows reefing, but it costs 3 times as much as the ones listed above.

I like the snapfurl best so far based on reading the 3 owner manuals.

 

[Joe11688]

I don't know too much about the the Schaeffer Snap-Furl Ken. The Schaeffer furling systems that came stock with the O'Day 222 and 192 were junk as far as I was concerned. You want a furling system that can allow reefing. I like the CDI FF-2 that I have. I bought it off Rudy years ago and he told me that the ball bearings aren't needed for the drum to spin on in small boats like ours. The drum can spin on the flat washer just as well with less problems down the road with ball bearings freezing up.

I took my Gennie to a sail maker in Bristol RI and had him convert it over to fit the vinyl luff on the CDI furler. He added the UV shield, the luff tape, and re-cut my sail so that it would fit the vinyl luff.
The vinyl luff has it's own halyard on one side and a groove for the luff tape to slide into on the other side. You Jib Halyard isn't needed for anything other than mast raising/lowering with you Gin Pole.
If you have a jib right now, you're better off buying a furler with the Gennie as part of the package. Check out your other thread for more info on this.
Joe

 

[Brian S]

Furlers and reefers...

Hahaha, I selected that subject on purpose!

Yes, Joe from Trinkka is correct, the original Schaeffer wire luff furler was quite junky, and only rolls the headsail up.

Reefing furlers have some form of rigid/semi-rigid luff foil as opposed to just a wire in the luff of the sail. Typical small boat furlers, for dinghies and such, are often just wire luff furlers.

CDI furlers have a semi-rigid vinyl luff foil extrusion. I think they might have issues keeping the jib luff tensioned, but I do not know from experience. There are plenty of them on boats in our marina - I have at least 2 friends using them.

The sailmaker who recommended the Shaeffer Snap Furl said it was easier to set up as the cylindrical luff foil snaps around the forestay. I think she also said the sail would set better when reefed using the Snap Furl. She is also a performance hound the way that I am, so if I go with a new headsail and decide to go with roller furling/reefing, I will probably go with a Snap Furl. But I'm not looking to pay roughly $1200 genoa + furling system right now :cry: I'll just live hank on with downhaul for now...

Brian

I don't know too much about the the Schaeffer Snap-Furl Ken. The Schaeffer furling systems that came stock with the O'Day 222 and 192 were junk as far as I was concerned.
Joe

 

[Joe11688]

Whereas Ken's O'Day 22 is a mast head rig, I don't think he'll encounter any problems with head stay tension with a CDI Roller furler. I have a factional rig and my furler has good tension.

My friend Wayne installed and extra fore stay on his Seaward 22 fractional rig sloop as a back up for his fore stay and also to be able to add more tension to it via his back stay without bending the mast back. I honestly haven't had that problem.
The only other important piece of advice I can add to this subject which can apply to the O'Day 192 with a Z-Spar internal halyard mast is: If you ever decide to go with any type of roller furler with the vinyl luff, you're going to need to eliminate the T bar fitting on the fore stay and add a tang to the mast where the T bar fits into the slot. The fore stay needs to have a swaged toggle fitting with a toggle strap at both ends. The toggle fittings with toggle straps allow the stay to move freely from side to side whereas the T-bar fitting won't, and will part in time. If your mast has tangs for the rigging, you're all set.

 

[kpgraci]

So Joe and Brian,

Are you saying the CDI FF2 and the Snapfrul do allow reefing? I'm sure I read somewhere it was not intended for that, but I'll take your word(s) and experience over that.

That would be great news indeed.

North Sails quoted me a price on 2 new sails that was higher than most, but less than D&R, but D&R has the best price on the CDI furler.

 

[Brian S]

Ken, both CDI's and Schaefer's websites say that they can reef as well as furl.

I have used a CDI system a few times on 2 different boats. I haven't used the Snap Furl, but it was highly recommended. I think you should be fine with either on a 22.

Brian

 

[Joe11688]

According to this site, http://www.furling.com/snapfurl.html the Snap Furl has furling and reefing capabilities like the CDL FF-2 I have on my boat.

 

[cbourne200]

CDI furler documentation on my 272 says the Jib is a 130%, and can be 'reefed' to about 100%. After that, don't try to use as a reefed Jib. So it's either 'all the way out', or at most, slightly furled.

But don't take my comments as gospel. I've only had the 272 for a year... Never had a furler experience prior to Dec 2011.

Charles
'87 O'Day 272
Pensacola, FL

 

[Pat]

CDI furler documentation on my 272 says the Jib is a 130%, and can be 'reefed' to about 100%. After that, don't try to use as a reefed Jib. So it's either 'all the way out', or at most, slightly furled.

But don't take my comments as gospel. I've only had the 272 for a year... Never had a furler experience prior to Dec 2011.

Charles
'87 O'Day 272
Pensacola, FL

I think what they don't want to say is the furled sail is not really effective when reefed to smaller than 100 percent. That said, we've certainly reefed
ours down to maybe as small as a 60 percent when sailing in higher winds along with a reefed main. With the single line reef system O'Day installed on the 272, reefing the main is easy and that smaller amount of headsail allows one to point better in the rougher waves/seas than reefed main alone. Actually, the boat sails really well in this configuration. It's often so windy here that if we had not learned to reef the main we might not still be sailing as I don't enjoy sailing with only a reefed head sail...the boat is balanced better with reefed main and 60-70 percent headsail. My opinion only....Patrick

 

[kpgraci]

I spoke to a rep at north sails and asked about reefing. His response leads me the conclusion that the CDI and Snapfurl can be used to reef (we did not discuss harkin) but the jib needs to be perhaps at most a 130. Then the sail can be modified (he gave details I did not follow 100%) such that when reefed it will flatten as needed, or can then be adjusted to flatten. So that fits in with what Pat and others say.

As far as price, I hinted that I wanted a better price and he referred me to FX sails if I was looking for something less expensive. Interesting.