Headsail choice

[Joidevivre]

Catalina 27', standard masthead rig (not talk rig). Converting to roller furling, including new sail. Have old hank on 150, 135, 110 and storm jib. All pretty blown out except for the storm jib. Casual racing on the weekends, and very calm cruising and day sailing w the family.

Unsure of new headsail choice: 150 would make sense for sailing but perform poorly if partially furled for family sailing. 135 would be good all-arounder (easier than the big deck sweeping 150), but would leave us slower in the races and could still be a lot of sail for the family.

Should I go for it, get a 150, and live w the poor sail shape if partially furled for family sailing? Or am I splitting hairs on the upwind performance of a 135 vs 150? We run downwind legs w an a-sail, so no need for the 150's size there. I admit I dislike how encumbered the boat is w the 150 and would love someone to tell me I'll get all the upwind speed I need from the 135.

Appreciate any suggestions, thanks!

 

[Stu Jackson]

OK, easy answer. You're right!

Actually, the general consensus over the past few years on this and other boating forums in answer to your not-unusual situation, is that a 130-135 makes perfect sense.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Joid,

Having sailed on 27's, races or not, I agree with STU, 27's can become tender quickly when overloaded with large sails in stronger winds & gusts & waves or in any combination thereof.

However, if determined to go 150, the only advice I can add would make sure it's a high-cut ginney. You will still get performance from the middle area of the sail without overloading as much. Another advantage of a high cut headsail is better sight-view ahead.

CR

 

[Sandy Stone]

If you're only getting one sail, it should probably be the 135 for general utility. In most areas you get a miniscule rating credit for a headsail under 135, so just make sure you qualify for that.

 

[Ted]

It depends on your sailing conditions. In predominantly high wind venues, a 135% would work pretty well. In moderate to light conditions, you are going to get hurt going upwind with a 135% in winds under about 12 knots true. If your priority is racing, go with the larger headsail and convert your older 135 or 110% headsail to roller furling for cruising. This will also extend the racing life of your new sail. If your priority is cruising/daysailing, the 135% would make more sense. It's always a compromise when you're trying to race and cruise with a limited sail inventory.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

For racing performance ...

you should probably do a little more research. Reading between the lines, it sounds like you really hate to give up anything for your "casual" races. But here's the thing. I think that I have heard that a 150 is basically a compromise for people who want a big sail for improved downwind performance, but don't have a kite. From what I understand, you actually sacrifice upwind performance with your 150. You have an A kite for downwind so why would you want a 150 when your upwind performance will actually be improved with a smaller head sail?

You obviously have much more racing performance than me, and a much wider selection of sails so I would not question your first-hand knowledge ... but everything I've read in these forums tells me that upwind performance, pointing ability, sail shape, etc is improved with a smaller head sail, even for a masthead rig like ours. Detached air flow, particularly in light winds, is a big reason for poor upwind performance with a large sail.

Years ago, I bought a deck sweeping 150 genny, thinking bigger is better, right? After using it and my older 110 jib for many years, I've come to the conclusion that my next head sail will be 130-135. I'll have a kite for downwind.

 

[seadaddler]

150

I only know from other sailors that have or had 150 say they are so much trouble when the wind picks up and so much work and over powering and they who have smaller say so much better and with family cruising smaller is better.
I have had 2 Hunters with 110 and do race with my 110 and do very well and have heard of some switch to 130 from a 110 and been happy for racing.
Nick

 

[BobM]

I have a 135 with a foam luff and shape is pretty good when rolled up to about a 100, but I would definitely recommend a furler that rotates at the top as well as the bottom and a foam or rope luff to add some shape when furled. To be frank, my next genoa may be a 125. I sail solo 90% of the time and it would be nice to have something easier to handle, although the 135 isn't awful. It would also be away from my spreaders which has definitely caused some wear and tear on the 135. My friend put a code zero on a second furler for downwind and he absolutely loves it and flies it up to 20 knots.

 

[Joidevivre]

Fantastic replies, thanks folks! Sounds like am heading for the 135, or better yet 134 to grab the rating credit. I will have the 110 spruced up and use as often as possible for cruising to extend the 134's race life.

Now, anyone have experience w the Plastimo 811-T furler?

Thanks for all your valuable input.

 

[Stu Jackson]

A very illuminating and interesting discussion on co.com for those of you who might be in the market for a new jib.

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=155362

Please read all three pages. Enjoy.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

There ya go ... that discussion is a standout for sure!

 

[bffatcat]

Jibs what size?

When I used to race my pearson 10M I had a 150 mylar deck sweeper that was used for racing only. my cruising sails were a dacron working jib and a 125 genoa. Your choice but if you want to be competitive using a rollup genoa might make u less competitive

 

[Stu Jackson]

There ya go ... that discussion is a standout for sure!

Scott, I agree. I liked this one so much that I keep it as a "sticky" on our C34 forum. I can always find it easily and re-post.

 

[Chris5]

Recommemd 110

I had a Catalina 27 for many happy years. I had a 110 genoa made and it was all I needed. I had a medium cut but if I was doing it now I'd have a high cut. The huge 155 they give you is too big to be useful. I miss that boat. Sandy took her. Anyway my experience with a manageable 110 was far better than a huge but useless headsail.

 

[Jumpstart]

Your problem is quite common for guys who race some and cruise. Best compromise is get a Harken Unit 0 roller furling. Drum on that unit is pretty small so that you can tack racing sails to deck by dropping the upper swivel below the feeder. You now have a twin groove racing foil allowing you to change sails on the fly. Buy a laminate 150 for racing. The laminate sail will be lighter which means less heeling. Have your 135 and 110 recut and use those when cruising or you can also use those when you need to switch down to smaller headsails on the race course.

A 150 on a Catalina is considerably faster than the 135. Those who have said it is slower don't race much. My racing inventory is a AP 155, super light high clew 155, 138, 105. I use the 138 on the furler for cruising. It works well as I am in a light wind area with occasional times of sustained high wind.Case in point was this past weekend. 26 mile point to point race which was a beat the whole way. Start was a drifter. AP 155 up for 1st 2 hours as wind, waves built to 6 feet and 20 knots of wind, switched to the 138 on the fly, bladed main out and vang sheeted for the next 23 miles. guys with roller furling either dropped out or finished hours behind because of the shape of their partially furled RF jib. If you had a 135 at the start you were way behind before you reached it's effective wind range.

 

[Sandy Stone]

I still think if you can only get one headsail for racing and cruising, the 135 (or 134!) is the best choice. But I have to agree with Wedniteracer, the 150 will be faster upwind in light to medum air. I have *never* seen a boat around here start a light air race with anything but a 155, and I don't mean just the wanksters like me, but guys I would call some of the best sailors in the country - having won the Mallory's (US men's keelboat champs), medaled in the Olympics, won various national one-design races, etc. Heck, J30's normally race with a 163 genoa. Theory is all well and good, but in practice racing upwind, I'll take the big headsail.
Note I'm talking about last-generation boats like most of us sail and not current boats with outboard shrouds, where the sheeting angles would never work.

 

[Joidevivre]

Fantastic feedback guys, thanks a million, esp Wednightracer and Sandy stone for the race advice. I will go 134 Dacron for this year and add a light weight 150 next season strictly for racing in lighter winds, which we get here a lot in Vancouver, makes tones of sense. Have been looking at a Plastimo twin groove furler for exactly the scenario you suggest, but will check into drum diameter and ability to tack to the deck.

Thanks again!

 

[Prime Time]

You should check with your local phrf board. With a sail less than a 140% you may get a credit. 139.9!

 

[Stu Jackson]

A 150 on a Catalina is considerably faster than the 135.

Mebbe not. Please see my earlier link.