There was a post on 9/15 ("Risk of Demasting") that we would really like to hear some more feedback on. We have been sailing club boats for several years and now have an H340 on order. Sailing the club boats (vintage 28' Albin Cumulus) we found head-sail-only to be a reasonably comfortable way to go in 25-ish knot winds. The Albin weather-helms pretty hard when heeled, and having all the force way up forward seemed to help considerably to balance the helm. Now we have the H340 to look forward to (very different sail plan and rig) and we also read the Practical Sailor article that said that this is a big risk unless you have the rig to handle it. What is your experience? Have any of you used head-sail-only in a stiff breeze? Does it work with the Hunter sail plan and the B&R rig? Has anyone had problems with mast pumping or anything else when sailing this way? Is there anything to watch out for? If you have read the PS article referred to, do any of these concerns relate to the B&R rig at all? Thanks in advance for the feedback! Carl
- Status
A lot of
A lot of people use the headsail only in stiff breezes. I think they do it mainly because it requires less effort on their part. If you look at a sailboat, under sail, from a side view you'll see how each sail counters the other. It's all balance. The Headsail pulls the mast forward and the mainsail pulls it back. Everything I've ever read from the Pardeys to the Daschews say don't use just the headsail. It's too much strain on the rig. If you think about it, why would there be reef points on a mainsail if all you had to do is take it down in a blow? Hope this helps and good luck with your new boat... Ron
A lot of people use the headsail only in stiff breezes. I think they do it mainly because it requires less effort on their part. If you look at a sailboat, under sail, from a side view you'll see how each sail counters the other. It's all balance. The Headsail pulls the mast forward and the mainsail pulls it back. Everything I've ever read from the Pardeys to the Daschews say don't use just the headsail. It's too much strain on the rig. If you think about it, why would there be reef points on a mainsail if all you had to do is take it down in a blow? Hope this helps and good luck with your new boat... Ron
can't point
I know I can't point very well with head sail alone. Although I wouldn't be afraid of a lazy run with genny alone. But in a blow I would rather ditch the headsail and use the reefed main alone.
I know I can't point very well with head sail alone. Although I wouldn't be afraid of a lazy run with genny alone. But in a blow I would rather ditch the headsail and use the reefed main alone.
hmmmmm
this seems very tricky; but, wouldn't a main and a headsail be more strain on rigging since it is the sum of both parts (and maybe some synergy to boot)? I know that forces; which, out of balance can be a tricky thing, but I think the tricky thing here might be imagination. Someone will need to do a lot of explaining as to why a jibsail alone could dismast a B&R rig!
this seems very tricky; but, wouldn't a main and a headsail be more strain on rigging since it is the sum of both parts (and maybe some synergy to boot)? I know that forces; which, out of balance can be a tricky thing, but I think the tricky thing here might be imagination. Someone will need to do a lot of explaining as to why a jibsail alone could dismast a B&R rig!
for Mike
Mike... Here is your explanation taken from, "Sailing in Windy weather," by Richard Henderson, page 32.: An important general principle of sail reduction is to keep the reduced sails as close together as possible. Particularly when sailing upwind, the sails afford greater drive with small area when they can work together aerodynamically. If two properly trimmed sails are close together on a point of sailing that minimizes blanketing and backwinding, they can help each other through circulation or slot effects and/or diversion of the air flow. Partly for this reason, a forestaysail set close to a reduced mainsail in a hard blow is often better than a small jib setfar forward. Balance of both sails is always the key to any sail plan. The book goes on to show pictures of sail configurations for different types of boats and wind conditions. None of the photos include headsail alone. Hope this helps to explain my position. Take Care and good sailing... Ron
Mike... Here is your explanation taken from, "Sailing in Windy weather," by Richard Henderson, page 32.: An important general principle of sail reduction is to keep the reduced sails as close together as possible. Particularly when sailing upwind, the sails afford greater drive with small area when they can work together aerodynamically. If two properly trimmed sails are close together on a point of sailing that minimizes blanketing and backwinding, they can help each other through circulation or slot effects and/or diversion of the air flow. Partly for this reason, a forestaysail set close to a reduced mainsail in a hard blow is often better than a small jib setfar forward. Balance of both sails is always the key to any sail plan. The book goes on to show pictures of sail configurations for different types of boats and wind conditions. None of the photos include headsail alone. Hope this helps to explain my position. Take Care and good sailing... Ron
As I said...
As I said, the Headsail pulls the mast forward and the Mainsail pulls it back. It isn't the sum of both sails in one direction, but the force of each sail in opposition.... Ron
As I said, the Headsail pulls the mast forward and the Mainsail pulls it back. It isn't the sum of both sails in one direction, but the force of each sail in opposition.... Ron
another consideration
The way I learned it, if a sloop in heavy weather wants to reduce to a single storm sail, it should use a storm jib if running, or a trisail (main) if going to weather. Agreed, however, that the best plan is to balance the rig whenever possible.
The way I learned it, if a sloop in heavy weather wants to reduce to a single storm sail, it should use a storm jib if running, or a trisail (main) if going to weather. Agreed, however, that the best plan is to balance the rig whenever possible.
heavy weather sailing
I would like to read this article to see what it says. Most of us have sailed with only our headsail and don't realize it. Just remember the day the wind realy started to blow and we started heeling over a little to much and started getting some weather helm so we eased the main out a little and then a little more and then we reefed and then eased some more until the main sail is completely luffing. Everything was under control it was a great day for sailing but we were basicly sailing with our headsail only. No power from the main no forward no backward pull only the noise of the flapping sail Andy Hansom Hunter 380 Vanishing Point
I would like to read this article to see what it says. Most of us have sailed with only our headsail and don't realize it. Just remember the day the wind realy started to blow and we started heeling over a little to much and started getting some weather helm so we eased the main out a little and then a little more and then we reefed and then eased some more until the main sail is completely luffing. Everything was under control it was a great day for sailing but we were basicly sailing with our headsail only. No power from the main no forward no backward pull only the noise of the flapping sail Andy Hansom Hunter 380 Vanishing Point
Headsail,yes
This is a subject that could be discussed in theory all day and not come up with a right answer. So for my two cents,after sailing many different boats for 25 years. Mostly older second hand, production (no great quality) line boats. Only coastal sailing. I can say I've never had a rig failure using headsail only in heavier weather. Having said that,I'll probably lose it next time. :0) Good luck red
This is a subject that could be discussed in theory all day and not come up with a right answer. So for my two cents,after sailing many different boats for 25 years. Mostly older second hand, production (no great quality) line boats. Only coastal sailing. I can say I've never had a rig failure using headsail only in heavier weather. Having said that,I'll probably lose it next time. :0) Good luck red
Jib Only or Spinnaker ?
I have sailed my 340 numerous times with headsail only especially in heavy winds. I sailed across Pamlico Sound last year to Ocracoke with only the headsail out the whole way with 25 knot winds out of the NNE and waves to match. Another time made the same trip with double reefed main and reefed jib. I think a Spinnaker in lighter air, ie 10 knots represents the same loads to the rig as a 110 jib only in stronger wind say 25 knots. Wayne, s/v Wind Drift
I have sailed my 340 numerous times with headsail only especially in heavy winds. I sailed across Pamlico Sound last year to Ocracoke with only the headsail out the whole way with 25 knot winds out of the NNE and waves to match. Another time made the same trip with double reefed main and reefed jib. I think a Spinnaker in lighter air, ie 10 knots represents the same loads to the rig as a 110 jib only in stronger wind say 25 knots. Wayne, s/v Wind Drift
Depends on rig configuration..
On a regular masthead rig with stright mast and (2 or more)spreaders, and big genoa, indeed it would be unwise to sail-on the long run- with headsail only , regarding rig safety. However on Hunters , with B&R rig , the genoa is small ,7/8 so the unbalanced pull is less important. The angeled back spreaders and curved mast-and the related stays- keeps better the mast tight 'in place'and support better the headsail. Hoever , regarding performance , due to it's small size and it's cut , my experience is that one cannot point a decent angle to wind,along with a lot of leeway. Regular short hand ( or plain lazy) crew who tend to cruise with genoa (sometimes with motor assistance) only in light wind ,will find it a slow option for a Hunter , and more difficult one going windward.
On a regular masthead rig with stright mast and (2 or more)spreaders, and big genoa, indeed it would be unwise to sail-on the long run- with headsail only , regarding rig safety. However on Hunters , with B&R rig , the genoa is small ,7/8 so the unbalanced pull is less important. The angeled back spreaders and curved mast-and the related stays- keeps better the mast tight 'in place'and support better the headsail. Hoever , regarding performance , due to it's small size and it's cut , my experience is that one cannot point a decent angle to wind,along with a lot of leeway. Regular short hand ( or plain lazy) crew who tend to cruise with genoa (sometimes with motor assistance) only in light wind ,will find it a slow option for a Hunter , and more difficult one going windward.
Thanks for the Feedback!
Thanks for all of the feedback! As in many places in life, it sounds like "balance is best". But it also sounds like we can look forward to some sail experimenting with our new boat without too much worry of ripping the rig out. Carl
Thanks for all of the feedback! As in many places in life, it sounds like "balance is best". But it also sounds like we can look forward to some sail experimenting with our new boat without too much worry of ripping the rig out. Carl
Interesting theories
Interesting discussion here, but I don't know if I need to change my ways yet or not. I often use only my headsail, not because of heavy weather, but because I usually single-hand my H34 and it is a LOT easier, especially when time to lower and flake the main in any wind. I'm not a racer but usually do about as well speed-wise as most with all their sails up. They're prettier, but I am beyond the lookin' good and goin' fast days I guess. Sure would like to know for sure if I may be doing some damage though.
Interesting discussion here, but I don't know if I need to change my ways yet or not. I often use only my headsail, not because of heavy weather, but because I usually single-hand my H34 and it is a LOT easier, especially when time to lower and flake the main in any wind. I'm not a racer but usually do about as well speed-wise as most with all their sails up. They're prettier, but I am beyond the lookin' good and goin' fast days I guess. Sure would like to know for sure if I may be doing some damage though.
- Status