The Jabsco head (manual) installed on my 2000 Hunter 340 is leaking at the base of the pump cylinder. The problem began with one small hairline crack virtually undetectable (small and somewhat out of site towards the back of the cylinder base). In fact, at first I assumed a loose hose clamp was the source of the small leak. The cracks multiplied quickly and there is a small and consistent amount of 'blue fluid' leaking when the pump is activated. Pricing the Jabsco head (with pump cylinder) vs. just the pump assembly doesn't seem significantly different (on sale at Boat US). Could someone give me some general advice on which is the most simple and straightforward replacement effort (entire head unit or pump) as well as advice and tips for making a 'clean' installation? I have never replaced a marine head before and am cautiously ready to roll up my sleeves and 'dive in.' Thanks! Elizabeth
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Crappers woes
It seems that the simplest solution is to replace the head. Given the age of your boat, I would have thought that this is under warranty.
It seems that the simplest solution is to replace the head. Given the age of your boat, I would have thought that this is under warranty.
Replace the entire toilet
The same cheap Jabsco unit is usually on sale somewhere for $99. Defender (http://www.defender.com/welcome2.html) has the somewhat better Wilcox-Crittenden Headmate on sale now for $99. Better yet, as long as you have to replace it, why not upgrade to "pushbutton convenience" with a nice electric toilet that uses pressurized flush water--which would also end your sea water intake odor problems? The Raritan SeaEra would be the best choice...and is available as a either a complete toilet or a conversion kit, which would allow you save money by recycling your existing bowl. Check it out on the Raritan website (link below).
The same cheap Jabsco unit is usually on sale somewhere for $99. Defender (http://www.defender.com/welcome2.html) has the somewhat better Wilcox-Crittenden Headmate on sale now for $99. Better yet, as long as you have to replace it, why not upgrade to "pushbutton convenience" with a nice electric toilet that uses pressurized flush water--which would also end your sea water intake odor problems? The Raritan SeaEra would be the best choice...and is available as a either a complete toilet or a conversion kit, which would allow you save money by recycling your existing bowl. Check it out on the Raritan website (link below).
Another option is available
I love Peggie and would marry her today if I wasn't already taken, but I think there is another option for you to consider beside her advice and that is the Raritan PH II. I just took the Jabsco out of my H380 and replaced it with a Raritan PH iI. It's a snap, and your intake and out flow hoses fit perfectly. And you don't use your precious water supply.
I love Peggie and would marry her today if I wasn't already taken, but I think there is another option for you to consider beside her advice and that is the Raritan PH II. I just took the Jabsco out of my H380 and replaced it with a Raritan PH iI. It's a snap, and your intake and out flow hoses fit perfectly. And you don't use your precious water supply.
PH II for me too
I also replaced a Jabsco today. Jabsco is absoultly the worst head on the market as far as I am concerned. The pump assy. is almost the same price as the entire unit. (about $99 each) I used a PH II. It was a little larger than the Jabsco, but is going to be worth the trouble when completed. I was slightly deeper and taller than the Jabsco and the other units that we have used but is going to be a better unit in the long run. We have had the original WC-Head Mate, plastic base cracked and leaked. Groco-HF, rebuilt a couple of times and tossed it. Jabsco-Compact, screws in pump housing stripped out when I tried to lube the piston assy. I paid $215 for this toilet at West Marine. Their price was $290 but they price matched On Line (www.onlinemarine.com)
I also replaced a Jabsco today. Jabsco is absoultly the worst head on the market as far as I am concerned. The pump assy. is almost the same price as the entire unit. (about $99 each) I used a PH II. It was a little larger than the Jabsco, but is going to be worth the trouble when completed. I was slightly deeper and taller than the Jabsco and the other units that we have used but is going to be a better unit in the long run. We have had the original WC-Head Mate, plastic base cracked and leaked. Groco-HF, rebuilt a couple of times and tossed it. Jabsco-Compact, screws in pump housing stripped out when I tried to lube the piston assy. I paid $215 for this toilet at West Marine. Their price was $290 but they price matched On Line (www.onlinemarine.com)
Appears to be switchable.
Rick: You may want to look at the Raritan Website for the instructions. I just looked through my installation instructions and could NOT find any reference to reversing the pump assy to the opposite side. You do know that these units can be converted to electric. ($180 at On Line Marine). This would eliminate the problem, unless you need to switch it back to manual. There is a note in there regarding the PHC base cannot be converted to electric.
Rick: You may want to look at the Raritan Website for the instructions. I just looked through my installation instructions and could NOT find any reference to reversing the pump assy to the opposite side. You do know that these units can be converted to electric. ($180 at On Line Marine). This would eliminate the problem, unless you need to switch it back to manual. There is a note in there regarding the PHC base cannot be converted to electric.
Our Chore, Too!
Elizabeth (and Peggy and others): We face the same task; Jabsco pump unit developed hair-line cracks. We temporarily sealed them with some Super-Glue to get through the season, but that won't last; we need to replace, and we will replace the whole head. We currently are considering replacing with a PH II. Of course, the base bolt patterns will not match. We have previously heard in this forum about bolt pattern "transition pieces" that you can make from wood (??). We have tried the archive search without success. Could someone please give us a quick description of how to do this; how thick should the piece be, etc. etc. Thanks! Carl and Jule s/v 'Syzygy'
Elizabeth (and Peggy and others): We face the same task; Jabsco pump unit developed hair-line cracks. We temporarily sealed them with some Super-Glue to get through the season, but that won't last; we need to replace, and we will replace the whole head. We currently are considering replacing with a PH II. Of course, the base bolt patterns will not match. We have previously heard in this forum about bolt pattern "transition pieces" that you can make from wood (??). We have tried the archive search without success. Could someone please give us a quick description of how to do this; how thick should the piece be, etc. etc. Thanks! Carl and Jule s/v 'Syzygy'
Covering old mounting bolt holes
The easiest way may be, simply fill 'em and touch 'em up with a gelcoat repair kit. But if you're afraid it won't match... Buy a nice piece of 1/8" or 1/4" teak or mahogany, cut to the shape you want it (if the toilet is on a raised platform and the new toilet will overhang the edge, go with an even thicker piece that also overhangs). Finish it nicely--varnish it...bevelled edges are good too--and put it down with screws (do NOT "glue" it down...it may have to be replaced the next time a new toilet bolt holes don't match the old ones). Seal the edges with silicone to keep moisture out from under it. Mount the toilet. If you've done a good job with the board, it will look like a factory installation.
The easiest way may be, simply fill 'em and touch 'em up with a gelcoat repair kit. But if you're afraid it won't match... Buy a nice piece of 1/8" or 1/4" teak or mahogany, cut to the shape you want it (if the toilet is on a raised platform and the new toilet will overhang the edge, go with an even thicker piece that also overhangs). Finish it nicely--varnish it...bevelled edges are good too--and put it down with screws (do NOT "glue" it down...it may have to be replaced the next time a new toilet bolt holes don't match the old ones). Seal the edges with silicone to keep moisture out from under it. Mount the toilet. If you've done a good job with the board, it will look like a factory installation.
Don't want or need wood.
Carl & Jule: This is really no big deal. Every time (4) we have replaced the head we have only been able to use some of the existing holes. I would suggest that you find the head that you want and it fits in you space. Get it fitted and drill any new holes in the platform. Then get some marine-tex or epoxy and seal the old holes. I have also just used caulking in the holes to prevent water from getting into the plywood that is under the platform.
Carl & Jule: This is really no big deal. Every time (4) we have replaced the head we have only been able to use some of the existing holes. I would suggest that you find the head that you want and it fits in you space. Get it fitted and drill any new holes in the platform. Then get some marine-tex or epoxy and seal the old holes. I have also just used caulking in the holes to prevent water from getting into the plywood that is under the platform.
I would not "electrify" a PH II
The only thing the motor does is replace the pump handle. It also pumps the toilet much faster and with a shorter stroke than pumping it manually, which takes longer to prime and therefore increases wear on the seals and o-rings, requiring more frequent rebuilds. The faster shorter stroke also makes it harder for the toilet to "swallow" larger amounts of paper and solids than it could using a slower, more deliberate stroke...making the toilet more prone to clogging. The PH II is an outstanding manual toilet. Adding the motor than makes it a PHE II ("E" = electric) only turns it into a poor excuse for an electric toilet with only one advantage: it can be converted back to manual by disconnecting the motor from the pump yoke. I know a lot of people who've just taken the motor off altogether 'cuz they got tired of dealing with the problems it causes. For the same or less $$ you can buy the SeaEra, which is a true macerating electric toilet. What is a PHC? The only Raritan PH toilets are the PH II and the PHE II. As for mounting on either side, scroll down to "Options" at http://www.raritaneng.com/Products/Heads/PHII_and_PHEII/phii_and_pheii.html Contact Raritan for instructions.
The only thing the motor does is replace the pump handle. It also pumps the toilet much faster and with a shorter stroke than pumping it manually, which takes longer to prime and therefore increases wear on the seals and o-rings, requiring more frequent rebuilds. The faster shorter stroke also makes it harder for the toilet to "swallow" larger amounts of paper and solids than it could using a slower, more deliberate stroke...making the toilet more prone to clogging. The PH II is an outstanding manual toilet. Adding the motor than makes it a PHE II ("E" = electric) only turns it into a poor excuse for an electric toilet with only one advantage: it can be converted back to manual by disconnecting the motor from the pump yoke. I know a lot of people who've just taken the motor off altogether 'cuz they got tired of dealing with the problems it causes. For the same or less $$ you can buy the SeaEra, which is a true macerating electric toilet. What is a PHC? The only Raritan PH toilets are the PH II and the PHE II. As for mounting on either side, scroll down to "Options" at http://www.raritaneng.com/Products/Heads/PHII_and_PHEII/phii_and_pheii.html Contact Raritan for instructions.
Peggie?
I am about to replace my Headmate, not because it malfunctions but because it is old. I was thinking of the Cricket then talked to a person who was so disappointed in quality he kept it only one year. How do the PH II and Cricket compare?
I am about to replace my Headmate, not because it malfunctions but because it is old. I was thinking of the Cricket then talked to a person who was so disappointed in quality he kept it only one year. How do the PH II and Cricket compare?
Cricket is a fine toilet
Your friend may have gotten one of the early Crickets that had a defective (design flaw, actually) flapper valve...when pumped too fast, waste didn't go, it erupted upward. That's been corrected, but it still will cause problems if it's not flushed enough to clear ALL the waste out of the diaphragm--if waste is allowed to build up below the bowl. Had your friend contacted Raritan instead of just chucking the toilet, they'd have sent him a new flapper valve. And that's something I'll never understand about boat owners, especially when it comes to marine toilets: it never occurs to 'em to talk to the mfr if it's not working as advertised...that it could be a defective part. Instead, they just declare it a "piece of junk" and toss a $200+ piece of equipment that's still under warranty (!) in the trash and spend another $200. And then they complain about the high cost of owning a boat.
Your friend may have gotten one of the early Crickets that had a defective (design flaw, actually) flapper valve...when pumped too fast, waste didn't go, it erupted upward. That's been corrected, but it still will cause problems if it's not flushed enough to clear ALL the waste out of the diaphragm--if waste is allowed to build up below the bowl. Had your friend contacted Raritan instead of just chucking the toilet, they'd have sent him a new flapper valve. And that's something I'll never understand about boat owners, especially when it comes to marine toilets: it never occurs to 'em to talk to the mfr if it's not working as advertised...that it could be a defective part. Instead, they just declare it a "piece of junk" and toss a $200+ piece of equipment that's still under warranty (!) in the trash and spend another $200. And then they complain about the high cost of owning a boat.
Thanks Peggie
But my question was how do you compare the Cricket to the PH II? I had pretty much decided on the Cricket until I heard about the PH II on this site.
But my question was how do you compare the Cricket to the PH II? I had pretty much decided on the Cricket until I heard about the PH II on this site.
Both are excellent, Dave
Both have drawbacks and advantages. The PH II (and its predecessor the PH) has been rated the best manual toilet under $500 for decades. It has a piston-cylinder pump that requires some maintenance and lubrication...although it somehow manages to keep working longer and better even if neglected than any other toilet. The Cricket has diaphragm pump that requires almost no maintenance...the "repair kit" is actually a whole new pump assembly (minus the housing) and is only needed about as often as whole new pump would be required on a piston/cylinder toilet. The downside is (as I mentioned), it's a little more "sensitive" to incomplete flushing than the PH II. The pump is beneath the bowl, which takes up less room than piston/cylinder toilet with the pump beside the bowl...but that also puts the dry/flush valve below the bowl, which can be awkward to reach unless you also buy the optional extension pole that allows it to be used without sticking your head in the toilet. IMO, because of its proven ability to "take a lickin' and keep on tickin'," the PH II is better suited for live-aboards and blue water cruisers...the Cricket is an excellent choice for "weekend warriors"
Both have drawbacks and advantages. The PH II (and its predecessor the PH) has been rated the best manual toilet under $500 for decades. It has a piston-cylinder pump that requires some maintenance and lubrication...although it somehow manages to keep working longer and better even if neglected than any other toilet. The Cricket has diaphragm pump that requires almost no maintenance...the "repair kit" is actually a whole new pump assembly (minus the housing) and is only needed about as often as whole new pump would be required on a piston/cylinder toilet. The downside is (as I mentioned), it's a little more "sensitive" to incomplete flushing than the PH II. The pump is beneath the bowl, which takes up less room than piston/cylinder toilet with the pump beside the bowl...but that also puts the dry/flush valve below the bowl, which can be awkward to reach unless you also buy the optional extension pole that allows it to be used without sticking your head in the toilet. IMO, because of its proven ability to "take a lickin' and keep on tickin'," the PH II is better suited for live-aboards and blue water cruisers...the Cricket is an excellent choice for "weekend warriors"
Re: Les Blackwell's post
Can you imagine how sweet your boat would smell if you DID marry Peggy???
Can you imagine how sweet your boat would smell if you DID marry Peggy???
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