Have you bought a boat during cold off-season?

[gusc]

I live in Chicago and I am excited about buying my first keel boat. I thought I'd look for a boat during winter so that, when the season starts, I already have my marina/slip/insurance ready to go, as well as any boat maintenance done during the cold months.

I will have a survey done, but obviously, it's not possible to do a sea trial where I live until spring. How would you structure the purchase in this case? Should I just stop looking until spring comes?

Thanks

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I wouldn't expect to have all the maintenance done on it by April 1st unless it's at a full service marina such as Crowley's or Chicago Yacht Works. We only have a week or two before snow is here. Don't feel rushed by this. It's better to take your time to find a good boat.

You could do a partial payment with the stipulation that remaining balance will be payable upon favorable survey. I'm sure others will chime with suggestions on what the details of that might be

 

[gusc]

I wouldn't expect to have all the maintenance done on it by April 1st unless it's at a full service marina such as Crowley's or Chicago Yacht Works. We only have a week or two before snow is here. Don't feel rushed by this. It's better to take your time to find a good boat.

You could do a partial payment with the stipulation that remaining balance will be payable upon favorable survey. I'm sure others will chime with suggestions on what the details of that might be

Thank you for your input!

to clarify, what I mean is I thought I would work on any light fixing up myself during the winter, cosmetic stuff, if needed, and take my time during the winter calling the marina and reserving a spot.

one other thought was that I could potentially get a good deal pre-season, but on the other hand I imagine people with winter storage paid-for are not listing their boats until end of Q3. If I pull the trigger now I may lose a better opportunity in the spring.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I was quite surprised at how much boat I could get right now for 10-12k. Keep on looking! You never know what you might find! If you do end up finding one, I can recommend the Mr Buddy propane heater. It pumps out heat in a small enclosure such as a boat. We used one while replacing a bulkhead in the winter

 

[Mr. Dave]

If you find someone willing to do a "must pass inspection" partial sale (good luck with that), no way in helI are you doing any work on her until all the money is paid. You've entered into a catch-22 zone, gotta have a boat to get a slip (no guarantees) but without a slip you're a fool to have a boat. Been there, bought the boat, prayed for the slip, but without a registration there was no hope at all. Insert some quote here about how "a boring life is not a life well lived" or some such shite...

 

[Kings Gambit]

This very topic came up a couple of years ago with another member. I think the consensus was that it is impractical to buy (or attempt to buy) a boat contingent on a satisfactory survey or sea trial months later. With either one or both of those at issue, you’ll likely have to either buy it as you see it now, or wait. There’s not much, if anything, in-between.

 

[Paul Streicher]

I don’t know how much payment for winter storage is an issue, its probably more related to traffic as to who looks to buy a boat when its freezing. Its nice to sell before the yard fee is due, but it often doesn’t happen.

iIn the midwest, typically, there isn’t a sea trial contingency if there is a seller’s broker, rather than a private sale, but an inspection contingency- which can be done in the winter months, and an engine inspection contingency, which requires the boat be in the water. Two options for a purchase where you can’t do a winter engine test and don't want to wait until spring.:

1. The broker will suggest you close on the sale now, with an escrow to be held by the broker, which can be a negotiated amount, for any engine repairs in the spring. The problem is that you own the boat with whatever repairs, or engine replacement, that is needed and what happens if the repairs exceed the escrow. Chase the seller? But you’ll own the boat and can work on it over the winter. In the cold.

2. The sale remains contingent on passing the spring engine inspection. Better for the buyer, but uncertainty for the seller, as no closing until the engine test is accepted. You probably wouldn’t be allowed to work on the boat over the winter, as you aren't the owner yet.

Catch 22. No easy answer to this one…

 

[Mr. Dave]

There is an easy answer: buy it or don't buy it. Just don't complain if the engine smokes and the prop doesn't turn. Didn't say it was a GOOD answer...

 

[gusc]

I don’t know how much payment for winter storage is an issue, its probably more related to traffic as to who looks to buy a boat when its freezing. Its nice to sell before the yard fee is due, but it often doesn’t happen.

iIn the midwest, typically, there isn’t a sea trial contingency if there is a seller’s broker, rather than a private sale, but an inspection contingency- which can be done in the winter months, and an engine inspection contingency, which requires the boat be in the water. Two options for a purchase where you can’t do a winter engine test and don't want to wait until spring.:

1. The broker will suggest you close on the sale now, with an escrow to be held by the broker, which can be a negotiated amount, for any engine repairs in the spring. The problem is that you own the boat with whatever repairs, or engine replacement, that is needed and what happens if the repairs exceed the escrow. Chase the seller? But you’ll own the boat and can work on it over the winter. In the cold.

2. The sale remains contingent on passing the spring engine inspection. Better for the buyer, but uncertainty for the seller, as no closing until the engine test is accepted. You probably wouldn’t be allowed to work on the boat over the winter, as you aren't the owner yet.

Catch 22. No easy answer to this one…

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

You've entered into a catch-22 zone, gotta have a boat to get a slip (no guarantees) but without a slip you're a fool to have a boat. Been there, bought the boat, prayed for the slip, but without a registration there was no hope at all.

Mr. Dave brings up a good point. There's no guarantee that the boat will be ready for spring launch. There's no shortage of available slips in Chicago harbors so don't worry about their silly deadlines. They'll be happy to take your money, especially if you're a new slip holder.

I made this same mistake a couple of years ago. I bought the boat in October in Michigan City, worked on it a bit over the winter, fixed one issue and found five more. I didn't launch until July. It never made it to the slip I had in Chicago that year

 

[Tally Ho]

I bought my first boat, a Hunter 280, from a broker in Milwaukee, in the winter. the boat was in inside storage, mast down. I had a survey done (no haulout fees!) but we could not do a sea trial or start the engine. I asked the broker to withhold some $$ in escrow until spring when we could splash the boat and start the engine.

The first time I saw the boat with mast and sails on was the day I took delivery and sailed her home.
She was a 1996, and in very good shape. That might not have been possible on an older boat in questionable condition.

Good luck!

Greg

 

[Justin_NSA]

Never bought one in the winter but I sold one. My Mac26S was put away for the offseason but I had it on the market anyway. An inexperienced young couple from OK City were very interested from the pictures of her. We made a date for showing it. They wanted to sail her but I said we were pretty iced over and the boat was on the trailer. This was January.
As it went, we had a slight warming spell. The cove thawed. So we bent on the mainsail and put her in the water from the boat ramp. The beauty of a MacGregor. Long story short, the sail went well and they bought her for my asking price. And I could say I was the first one in the club to go sailing that year!

 

[DougM]

Having lived in Michigan most of my life, the decision to even put a boat on the market is difficult.
It is as much of a quandary for a seller as it would be for a potential buyer.
Put a for sale sign on the boat in the fall? Good luck finding a buyer during the winter willing to even look at a boat in outside storage, covered in shrink wrap, in 2 feet of snow. I think it would be too much of a risk to buy until spring.
Looking at it a a potential seller, my best chance would be to market it early in the spring, prior to launch, have the buyer get a survey done, and go on from there. As a seller, I would think that would be the fairest deal for everyone.

 

[sailnoproblem]

I bought in the middle of winter (Jersey) older boat. Not really it was a old boat. No survey and no sea trial, I knew what I was getting into, but I have the knowledge and experience to do all the needed work and repair.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Look in the winter but avoid the pressure to buy. There are so many variables, it is impossible to define your best strategy. What are you interested in buying? Models later than 2010? 2000? 1990? 1980? Earlier? The risk in purchasing a boat with a failing engine increase as the age increases, but not necessarily. Any purchase you make in the winter will probably be done with an escrow for the sea trial (which is typically done only to verify how the engine runs). I would do that only for a later model boat, after observing the engine and maintenance records, having a survey done, and feeling very comfortable that the engine will be fine. I wouldn't do that for a boat over 20 years old, roughly speaking.

Are you interested in very popular brands such as Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, etc or are you open to models that you don't see on the market very often. If you want only a Catalina and nothing else, you will undoubtedly find far more on the market as you approach spring. The best boats probably won't be on the market in the winter. Who wants to try to sell their pride and joy when there are very few buyers, and the buyers that are out there are probably expecting a bargain price. The sellers of the boats that you want to see probably will wait until spring to show off their prize.

OTOH, you just might find that prize in an unusual circumstance, so it doesn't hurt to look. I would take the time to look, but patience is a virtue. You can sort out the marina & insurance quickly. There is no reason for those issues to put pressure on you for a purchase.

If you don't know exactly what you want yet, use the winter to scope out a variety of boat brands and models. Decide on your criteria for selection first, then focus on the window of selection within a narrow range for shopping in the spring when there will be more to choose from. We started our search in late March last year and purchased in mid June. We narrowed down to the boat brand and model (actually, that process started earlier) before focusing on the search parameters, based on model year, asking price, and location (from Massachusetts to North Carolina). I ranked 15 boats in my focus group, based only on the advertising. Obviously, I was focused on a very popular model. Then I called as many contacts as I could reach, asked about the boat and scheduled times to make a visit if I was still interested. COVID made it impossible to see as many boats as I would have otherwise. Looking back, there were a lot of boats in my focus group on the market last spring. Far fewer now, I've noticed. The cycle will repeat.

Everything works two ways. More boats on the market … more pressure on Seller. More buyers in the market … more pressure on you to purchase what is available. Fewer buyers in winter … fewer sellers, too, and probably a meager selection. However, you will never know exactly when the right boat for you presents itself.

 

[rgranger]

What sized boat are you looking for? Do you know how you want to use it; racing, cruising, gunkholling?

 

[gusc]

Look in the winter but avoid the pressure to buy. There are so many variables, it is impossible to define your best strategy. What are you interested in buying? Models later than 2010? 2000? 1990? 1980? Earlier? The risk in purchasing a boat with a failing engine increase as the age increases, but not necessarily. Any purchase you make in the winter will probably be done with an escrow for the sea trial (which is typically done only to verify how the engine runs). I would do that only for a later model boat, after observing the engine and maintenance records, having a survey done, and feeling very comfortable that the engine will be fine. I wouldn't do that for a boat over 20 years old, roughly speaking.

Are you interested in very popular brands such as Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, etc or are you open to models that you don't see on the market very often. If you want only a Catalina and nothing else, you will undoubtedly find far more on the market as you approach spring. The best boats probably won't be on the market in the winter. Who wants to try to sell their pride and joy when there are very few buyers, and the buyers that are out there are probably expecting a bargain price. The sellers of the boats that you want to see probably will wait until spring to show off their prize.

OTOH, you just might find that prize in an unusual circumstance, so it doesn't hurt to look. I would take the time to look, but patience is a virtue. You can sort out the marina & insurance quickly. There is no reason for those issues to put pressure on you for a purchase.

If you don't know exactly what you want yet, use the winter to scope out a variety of boat brands and models. Decide on your criteria for selection first, then focus on the window of selection within a narrow range for shopping in the spring when there will be more to choose from. We started our search in late March last year and purchased in mid June. We narrowed down to the boat brand and model (actually, that process started earlier) before focusing on the search parameters, based on model year, asking price, and location (from Massachusetts to North Carolina). I ranked 15 boats in my focus group, based only on the advertising. Obviously, I was focused on a very popular model. Then I called as many contacts as I could reach, asked about the boat and scheduled times to make a visit if I was still interested. COVID made it impossible to see as many boats as I would have otherwise. Looking back, there were a lot of boats in my focus group on the market last spring. Far fewer now, I've noticed. The cycle will repeat.

Everything works two ways. More boats on the market … more pressure on Seller. More buyers in the market … more pressure on you to purchase what is available. Fewer buyers in winter … fewer sellers, too, and probably a meager selection. However, you will never know exactly when the right boat for you presents itself.

Scott, great points, and thank you so much for taking time to post this!

I believe I know exactly what I want and how much I want to spend: mid 80s, early 90s Catalina 30, $15k (+/- $5k depending).
The objective is to sail shorthanded and with the family on daysails, and eventually weekend trips. I envision us just spending the weekend at the Marina, going out to sail a couple of times during the weekend. No racing necessarily but possibly. Definitely racing is not a driving factor, and that is why I am opting for the Cat30 (I know it's a slow RV).

Based on all the advice I think I will take my time and use the cold weather to learn and prepare, find a surveyor to be available when the opportunity comes in early spring.

Thanks

 

[Pirate Dave]

I bought mine in the middle of winter. We ran the moisture meter over her, the decks had no softness in them. The broker did take the full amount but withheld $500.00 per my request to see the engine run in the spring. Everything worked out fine and she is still with me 20 + years later

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Scott, great points, and thank you so much for taking time to post this!

I believe I know exactly what I want and how much I want to spend: mid 80s, early 90s Catalina 30, $15k (+/- $5k depending).
The objective is to sail shorthanded and with the family on daysails, and eventually weekend trips. I envision us just spending the weekend at the Marina, going out to sail a couple of times during the weekend. No racing necessarily but possibly. Definitely racing is not a driving factor, and that is why I am opting for the Cat30 (I know it's a slow RV).

Based on all the advice I think I will take my time and use the cold weather to learn and prepare, find a surveyor to be available when the opportunity comes in early spring.

Thanks

That's one of the best! Don't sell its sailing performance short. It will do just fine. It's one of the best selling sailboats of all time. You could almost call it GOAT! You might want to look exclusively for Tall Rig models. There will be a lot of them on the market, so you may as well start. Just a quick glance indicates numerous for sale in your area. Later models will have a larger engine and swim platform. You could narrow your window of selection criteria and still have multiple boats to look at.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Ha! My grandfather was Gus C and he lived in Chicago. His stinkpot was kept at Burnham Harbor for years!