Went to a boat show last weekend and went aboard a 38 and 42 Catalina. (never been on a catalina before) I have to admit I really liked the interior of the Catalina better then the new Hunters I saw. Both had two cabin layouts but the Hunter had no head room in the aft cabin. Catalina seemed to make better use of storage. The Catalina had a real stand up seperate shower where the 41 Hunter had the ole head/shower combo. Maybe Hunter didn't bring their best boat and catalina brought their top shelf all decked out model??? Now top sides I liked the hunter better. I like the winches farther aft out of the way of the "guests". I have to say for my first catalina visit I sure was impressed. Ted
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Too much woodwork in Cat for me
I thought it looked like too much woodwork and too dark inside the Catalina's to me. I also thought the steps into the cabin were too small / too steep. IMHO, Whitney's did not bring the flagships of the Hunter line... I don't even think that they have any on hand in the marina right now. I absolutely love the Passage 420 and 456. The center cockpit really allows for a nice aft berth, lots of deck area between the cockpit and the large stern rail seats. Of course, with that comes a higher profile...
I thought it looked like too much woodwork and too dark inside the Catalina's to me. I also thought the steps into the cabin were too small / too steep. IMHO, Whitney's did not bring the flagships of the Hunter line... I don't even think that they have any on hand in the marina right now. I absolutely love the Passage 420 and 456. The center cockpit really allows for a nice aft berth, lots of deck area between the cockpit and the large stern rail seats. Of course, with that comes a higher profile...
Question??
When considering a boat for likes and dislikes, why wouldn't you consider the sailing and handling ability of the boat to be the MOST important issues and the size of the head left for a side bar issue. Seems to me that issues dealing with sailing characteristics and handling in weather should be tops on the list.
When considering a boat for likes and dislikes, why wouldn't you consider the sailing and handling ability of the boat to be the MOST important issues and the size of the head left for a side bar issue. Seems to me that issues dealing with sailing characteristics and handling in weather should be tops on the list.
Alan, true, but when going to boat shows
layout and things like that are all you can go by at that point. I do believe when you step on a boat that you are considering purchasing it should put a smile on your face without you even knowing it. When you sit in the saloon or the cockpit and walk around the boat, it should just "feel" right. I can't speak for the C380, but I do know the Cat 42MKII is a very nice sailing boat and can balance nicely under sail and is a popular cruising boat with a decent pedigree. It has been around for a while now and proven herself nicely I happen to know someone that has a Catalina 42 and took his boat in the Caribean 1500 two years ago. His Catalina 42 came in fourth place well ahead of other named "proper yachts" some of which had major systems failures. And this was no fair weather cruise, the fleet hit a multiple day storm and they had 40-50 knot winds for days. So that 2002 race had some pretty tough conditions. You can read someones first hand account here (someone in a J-boat did just 2 hours better in corrected time than the Catalina 42 and he ended up motoring more than the C42) http://www.jboats.com/j42/j42carib15002.htm (BTW this C42 was not crewed by all men nor pro's, The skipper has gotta be in his 60's and his g-friend who made the trip stands all of about 5 feet tall) I think most people that are interested in boats either before hand or after the shows ask other people or figure out another way whether a boat sails well or can handle heavy weather, such as I know the Catalina 42 is able to do.
layout and things like that are all you can go by at that point. I do believe when you step on a boat that you are considering purchasing it should put a smile on your face without you even knowing it. When you sit in the saloon or the cockpit and walk around the boat, it should just "feel" right. I can't speak for the C380, but I do know the Cat 42MKII is a very nice sailing boat and can balance nicely under sail and is a popular cruising boat with a decent pedigree. It has been around for a while now and proven herself nicely I happen to know someone that has a Catalina 42 and took his boat in the Caribean 1500 two years ago. His Catalina 42 came in fourth place well ahead of other named "proper yachts" some of which had major systems failures. And this was no fair weather cruise, the fleet hit a multiple day storm and they had 40-50 knot winds for days. So that 2002 race had some pretty tough conditions. You can read someones first hand account here (someone in a J-boat did just 2 hours better in corrected time than the Catalina 42 and he ended up motoring more than the C42) http://www.jboats.com/j42/j42carib15002.htm (BTW this C42 was not crewed by all men nor pro's, The skipper has gotta be in his 60's and his g-friend who made the trip stands all of about 5 feet tall) I think most people that are interested in boats either before hand or after the shows ask other people or figure out another way whether a boat sails well or can handle heavy weather, such as I know the Catalina 42 is able to do.
Tom, do you know...
...how your friend with the C42 set up the boat for sailing in 40-50 kt winds for multiple days? It would be interesting to hear and might tie in to the Gale Sail discussion that's cropped up a few times, too. It would also be helpful to hear on what point(s) of sail he faced the 40-50 kt winds, and whether the weather clocked after a sustained blow, meaning whether or not they eventually had to content with a cross/confused sea. Especially given the interest on this BB for this kind of boat, sounds like there's a lot of learning available from your buddy if you could get him to share it. Thanks. Unlike Alan, when offshore I find the location of a functional head in the after end of the main cabin (but not buried in an aft cabin behind a passageway) to very definitely be one of those "issues dealing with sailing characteristics and handling in weather" as it relates to my own comfort and safety, and that of my wife. Jack
...how your friend with the C42 set up the boat for sailing in 40-50 kt winds for multiple days? It would be interesting to hear and might tie in to the Gale Sail discussion that's cropped up a few times, too. It would also be helpful to hear on what point(s) of sail he faced the 40-50 kt winds, and whether the weather clocked after a sustained blow, meaning whether or not they eventually had to content with a cross/confused sea. Especially given the interest on this BB for this kind of boat, sounds like there's a lot of learning available from your buddy if you could get him to share it. Thanks. Unlike Alan, when offshore I find the location of a functional head in the after end of the main cabin (but not buried in an aft cabin behind a passageway) to very definitely be one of those "issues dealing with sailing characteristics and handling in weather" as it relates to my own comfort and safety, and that of my wife. Jack
I'll try & find the original email after his trip
I do know that he added an inner forestay and used a hanked on sail. Its not that uncommon, I even know a few Catalina 36's that also have this setup. You know, I keep seeing that Gale Sail and it "looks" like a good idea, but I have yet to meet or hear from anyone, that in practice, uses this sail often and in heavy winds and likes the setup.
I do know that he added an inner forestay and used a hanked on sail. Its not that uncommon, I even know a few Catalina 36's that also have this setup. You know, I keep seeing that Gale Sail and it "looks" like a good idea, but I have yet to meet or hear from anyone, that in practice, uses this sail often and in heavy winds and likes the setup.
This is the story of a C42 on a 1500 mile race
Below is the original email from the first mate in Dec 2002. Its a great story and answers a lot of questions people might have of the conditions and how they sailed, talking about sail changes and other issues -- A real testament to these "guys". I do know the skipper and he is very thoughout and I have no doubts in my mind that he was well prepared and went over every bit of his boat to ensure it was ready for mostly anything. As has been said before, preparation is key to being able to handle these kinds conditions. Kudo's to them. Enjoy -------------------------------------------- A Blue Water Adventure on "La Buona Vita" On Oct 26, 2002, "La Buona Vita," a 1997 Catalina 42 MkII, left Snug Harbor Marina, New Rochelle, NY, and started it's first leg on a journey to Tortola, BVI. We headed for Hampton, Virginia, where all the "Caribbean 1500" participants were scheduled to meet. The boat sat deep in the water due to all the extras we needed for our passage. We had installed an additional fuel tank, solar panels, an inner fore stay, SSB, weather fax, and other equipment. The provisions were stowed in one of the aft cabin closets where shelves were installed. Also, necessary fiddles were installed on every shelf area to keep things in place. Utilizing every space for water and provisions we were loaded. Tools, extra manual bilge pump, offshore life raft, type I life jackets, and a sea anchor were just a few of the required items on the rally's check list. The weather was cold and rainy but the anticipation was like adrenaline. Because we had favorable wind we sailed all the way to Virginia. The fleet of 46 boats converged and had meetings to discuss weather, safety, and a check list for all boats. Last minute additions and repairs were being done all around us and there was excitement in the air. The nightly get together's were helping people put faces on names and the sharing of information was very constructive. The list of boats in our fleet included sloops, cutters, ketches, yawls, catamarans, and a schooner. Some of the manufacturers included Hunter, Valiant, Shannon, Cape Dory, Dear foot, and Catalina. Some of the boats had made the trip many times and to some it was going to be their first real Blue Water' experience. We were ready and commenced on our rally on November 3, 2002. The day was cold but sunny and now there were three men and a woman. We were ready for an adventure we will never forget. After the start, the feeling of being on a safe boat was apparent. We had a good boat, and a crew that was working well together. From the start, our approach was that safety came before speed, but we wanted to make a good showing. We headed south by south east and a light wind soon settled in. Since we wanted to get the gulf stream behind us we turned on the motor and made for the east side of the stream. As the next day approached we were told, on our morning chat, that a front was coming down and would probably hit us the next day. As we started across the gulf stream the winds started up, and the front was on our tail. Passing the gulf stream was a nothing compared to the storm we were about to face. But "La Buona Vita" handled perfectly. We prepared ourselves, always seeming to reef down just before the winds got stronger. We used the tried and true approach that if you think about reefing--reef! First we single reefed the main, then we furled the Genoa and set the staysail. Next we put the second reef in the main, the staysail then came down and last we put the third reef in the main. Using lines that were never run for the third reef by sending John up on a pitching deck and tying down the sail just before the winds clocked over 55 kt. We sailed for over two days in winds that never dropped below 35 and went as high as 57 at about 120 deg. with only a triple reefed main. It is hard for me to understand how attaching themselves to jack lines and going on the deck during a storm can be an enjoyable task. The storm was not going to beat us. We were motivated and knew the Catalina was sound and the crew very competent. Our heading east did help us clear the front earlier than some other boats. It was uncomfortable but bearable. Trying to sleep was not easy, especially when the bed broke. The small wood rail holding the mattress just gave way and there I was on the floor, snug as a bug in a rug. Peter repaired the bed when the weather got better. Trying to stand straight was impossible so we just leaned where the boat put us. Foul weather gear drying from one shift to the other decorated the boat. No cooked meals were possible so we had cereal, sandwiches and lots of snacks. After many days of high winds, they subsided somewhat and shifted, so we set some more sail and made for the BVI. We traded high winds for about a 30 deg. heel and we were on our way east by south east again. Through it all we had a great time, and no severe problems. There were many problems on other yachts, some lost their auto pilots, others had engine problems, wind generators fell of masts, lost head stays, bad fuel, fouled tanks, ripped sails, and lost steering. These problems and weather forced some boats to divert to Bermuda, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic. It seemed the boats that headed south first were hit harder. Some decided to hove two, we never did. We just rode with the wind and sailed, sailed, sailed. One of our crew had made this passage before and told us it was never this bad. We also heard the same from many other boats whom make this passages every year. We believe leaving a day earlier would have made the passage easier. There seemed to have been a problem with the person responsible for the weather and we were without weather data for at least one day. Through it all, however there was the chat twice a day on the SSB led by one of the 1500 people. The chats helped people resolve their problems and seemed to be a stabilizing force for the fleet. Finally, the weather was warm the sun came out and the winds allowed us to sail with almost no heel. John took out his guitar and we all joined in singing in our spacious cockpit. We headed east, south east for a few more days and then south west for the last few hours. We saw Anageda and knew we were almost done. There were five boats in our class. Listening to the chat at night and noting the coordinates we realized two of the boats were ahead of us. What we didn't know was that they were motoring and we never motored after the second day. As the days became better we all showered in the front head, which was so enjoyable and roomy. We had wonderful meals, some included the fish we caught. The wind started to die down as we approached the finish and we invoked the "ten minute rule". We crossed the finish line sailing wing to wing scooping up any wind we could and never starting the engine. It was a beautiful day and we were all happy. Our crew was proud to be on our Catalina for this passage. We faced the storm and the Catalina took the waves and winds with no damage. On Friday, Nov. 15, there was an award dinner at Village Cay Marina. We did not know till that moment that we had won, First in our class, fourth overall! Quite an achievement for a production boat; quite an achievement for any boat. We did it, all of us and La Buona Vita!
Below is the original email from the first mate in Dec 2002. Its a great story and answers a lot of questions people might have of the conditions and how they sailed, talking about sail changes and other issues -- A real testament to these "guys". I do know the skipper and he is very thoughout and I have no doubts in my mind that he was well prepared and went over every bit of his boat to ensure it was ready for mostly anything. As has been said before, preparation is key to being able to handle these kinds conditions. Kudo's to them. Enjoy -------------------------------------------- A Blue Water Adventure on "La Buona Vita" On Oct 26, 2002, "La Buona Vita," a 1997 Catalina 42 MkII, left Snug Harbor Marina, New Rochelle, NY, and started it's first leg on a journey to Tortola, BVI. We headed for Hampton, Virginia, where all the "Caribbean 1500" participants were scheduled to meet. The boat sat deep in the water due to all the extras we needed for our passage. We had installed an additional fuel tank, solar panels, an inner fore stay, SSB, weather fax, and other equipment. The provisions were stowed in one of the aft cabin closets where shelves were installed. Also, necessary fiddles were installed on every shelf area to keep things in place. Utilizing every space for water and provisions we were loaded. Tools, extra manual bilge pump, offshore life raft, type I life jackets, and a sea anchor were just a few of the required items on the rally's check list. The weather was cold and rainy but the anticipation was like adrenaline. Because we had favorable wind we sailed all the way to Virginia. The fleet of 46 boats converged and had meetings to discuss weather, safety, and a check list for all boats. Last minute additions and repairs were being done all around us and there was excitement in the air. The nightly get together's were helping people put faces on names and the sharing of information was very constructive. The list of boats in our fleet included sloops, cutters, ketches, yawls, catamarans, and a schooner. Some of the manufacturers included Hunter, Valiant, Shannon, Cape Dory, Dear foot, and Catalina. Some of the boats had made the trip many times and to some it was going to be their first real Blue Water' experience. We were ready and commenced on our rally on November 3, 2002. The day was cold but sunny and now there were three men and a woman. We were ready for an adventure we will never forget. After the start, the feeling of being on a safe boat was apparent. We had a good boat, and a crew that was working well together. From the start, our approach was that safety came before speed, but we wanted to make a good showing. We headed south by south east and a light wind soon settled in. Since we wanted to get the gulf stream behind us we turned on the motor and made for the east side of the stream. As the next day approached we were told, on our morning chat, that a front was coming down and would probably hit us the next day. As we started across the gulf stream the winds started up, and the front was on our tail. Passing the gulf stream was a nothing compared to the storm we were about to face. But "La Buona Vita" handled perfectly. We prepared ourselves, always seeming to reef down just before the winds got stronger. We used the tried and true approach that if you think about reefing--reef! First we single reefed the main, then we furled the Genoa and set the staysail. Next we put the second reef in the main, the staysail then came down and last we put the third reef in the main. Using lines that were never run for the third reef by sending John up on a pitching deck and tying down the sail just before the winds clocked over 55 kt. We sailed for over two days in winds that never dropped below 35 and went as high as 57 at about 120 deg. with only a triple reefed main. It is hard for me to understand how attaching themselves to jack lines and going on the deck during a storm can be an enjoyable task. The storm was not going to beat us. We were motivated and knew the Catalina was sound and the crew very competent. Our heading east did help us clear the front earlier than some other boats. It was uncomfortable but bearable. Trying to sleep was not easy, especially when the bed broke. The small wood rail holding the mattress just gave way and there I was on the floor, snug as a bug in a rug. Peter repaired the bed when the weather got better. Trying to stand straight was impossible so we just leaned where the boat put us. Foul weather gear drying from one shift to the other decorated the boat. No cooked meals were possible so we had cereal, sandwiches and lots of snacks. After many days of high winds, they subsided somewhat and shifted, so we set some more sail and made for the BVI. We traded high winds for about a 30 deg. heel and we were on our way east by south east again. Through it all we had a great time, and no severe problems. There were many problems on other yachts, some lost their auto pilots, others had engine problems, wind generators fell of masts, lost head stays, bad fuel, fouled tanks, ripped sails, and lost steering. These problems and weather forced some boats to divert to Bermuda, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic. It seemed the boats that headed south first were hit harder. Some decided to hove two, we never did. We just rode with the wind and sailed, sailed, sailed. One of our crew had made this passage before and told us it was never this bad. We also heard the same from many other boats whom make this passages every year. We believe leaving a day earlier would have made the passage easier. There seemed to have been a problem with the person responsible for the weather and we were without weather data for at least one day. Through it all, however there was the chat twice a day on the SSB led by one of the 1500 people. The chats helped people resolve their problems and seemed to be a stabilizing force for the fleet. Finally, the weather was warm the sun came out and the winds allowed us to sail with almost no heel. John took out his guitar and we all joined in singing in our spacious cockpit. We headed east, south east for a few more days and then south west for the last few hours. We saw Anageda and knew we were almost done. There were five boats in our class. Listening to the chat at night and noting the coordinates we realized two of the boats were ahead of us. What we didn't know was that they were motoring and we never motored after the second day. As the days became better we all showered in the front head, which was so enjoyable and roomy. We had wonderful meals, some included the fish we caught. The wind started to die down as we approached the finish and we invoked the "ten minute rule". We crossed the finish line sailing wing to wing scooping up any wind we could and never starting the engine. It was a beautiful day and we were all happy. Our crew was proud to be on our Catalina for this passage. We faced the storm and the Catalina took the waves and winds with no damage. On Friday, Nov. 15, there was an award dinner at Village Cay Marina. We did not know till that moment that we had won, First in our class, fourth overall! Quite an achievement for a production boat; quite an achievement for any boat. We did it, all of us and La Buona Vita!
Catalina Strengths
Catalina is Very, Very good at figuring out layouts that appeal to the buying public. I own a '94 270 LE, everything you want in a 32' boat in a smaller package. The 310 is actually the latest redesign of the popular 30 and it's layout is the most appealing for a cruising couple. The boats generally sail well and offer very good value for the cost. Like most Catalina Owners I love my boat, but I know there are weaknesses.
Catalina is Very, Very good at figuring out layouts that appeal to the buying public. I own a '94 270 LE, everything you want in a 32' boat in a smaller package. The 310 is actually the latest redesign of the popular 30 and it's layout is the most appealing for a cruising couple. The boats generally sail well and offer very good value for the cost. Like most Catalina Owners I love my boat, but I know there are weaknesses.
I've been on several mid to large sized...
Catalinas and they are nice boats. IMHO, Hunter does a much better job on fit and finish, quality of materials and construction, and cabin layout. Terry
Catalinas and they are nice boats. IMHO, Hunter does a much better job on fit and finish, quality of materials and construction, and cabin layout. Terry
Tom, thanks for sharing the report with us...
A couple of things I did notice was that there were 4 crew members aboard (not just the skipper & wife), which would have been a big help. It also 'sounded' (more detail would have made it clearer) that their staysail was a bit big to serve as a storm sail. Otherwise, I would think that a staysail and no main would have been a better high-wind choice...but of course, they were there and I wasn't. Thanks much. They did good; apparently, so did the boat. Jack
A couple of things I did notice was that there were 4 crew members aboard (not just the skipper & wife), which would have been a big help. It also 'sounded' (more detail would have made it clearer) that their staysail was a bit big to serve as a storm sail. Otherwise, I would think that a staysail and no main would have been a better high-wind choice...but of course, they were there and I wasn't. Thanks much. They did good; apparently, so did the boat. Jack
Boat layout, and apperances are a very personal
decision. Heck, as nice as people like the C42, I happen to think the layout and "feel" of the C36 is better. I also know a couple that sailed their C42 to the Caribbean and lived on it for a couple of years. They really liked it, but now have moved back to the States and are on a lake so they down sized to a C36. He will tell you all the time that as much as he liked the C42, he likes the layout and the feel of C36 better. I have to concur, but obviously the C42 is a bigger, faster boat with more storage, etc. In terms of looks, that is very subjective, but I do notice Hunter in starting to "tone" down the styling a bit and return to more conservative looks. I've noticed they are going away from having dozens of different shape and different sized windows, which in my mind, is a good thing. As far as quality of build and materials, I could debate some things on that. Remember sometimes its much more important to look below the surface and the beyond the material of the cushions and the "glitter". I think Hunter has done a lot in the past few years to improve a lot of things and there are things I think they *are* doing right now. I have been crawling around all of these boats at boat shows for the past 12 years (As a minimum I have gone to every Atlantic City Sail Expo - since 1992) I can tell you, in the early days, I was very *un-enthused* with what I saw.
decision. Heck, as nice as people like the C42, I happen to think the layout and "feel" of the C36 is better. I also know a couple that sailed their C42 to the Caribbean and lived on it for a couple of years. They really liked it, but now have moved back to the States and are on a lake so they down sized to a C36. He will tell you all the time that as much as he liked the C42, he likes the layout and the feel of C36 better. I have to concur, but obviously the C42 is a bigger, faster boat with more storage, etc. In terms of looks, that is very subjective, but I do notice Hunter in starting to "tone" down the styling a bit and return to more conservative looks. I've noticed they are going away from having dozens of different shape and different sized windows, which in my mind, is a good thing. As far as quality of build and materials, I could debate some things on that. Remember sometimes its much more important to look below the surface and the beyond the material of the cushions and the "glitter". I think Hunter has done a lot in the past few years to improve a lot of things and there are things I think they *are* doing right now. I have been crawling around all of these boats at boat shows for the past 12 years (As a minimum I have gone to every Atlantic City Sail Expo - since 1992) I can tell you, in the early days, I was very *un-enthused* with what I saw.
Jack, sorry I didn't mean to imply that there
was only two people on that trip. I guess someone could read it that way. What I meant to imply, was that their were no pro's and none on board were young bucks nor all sailing "gorilla's". As far as the staysail, I'm not sure how that was cut, nor what weight cloth it was. I think they just set the sails that gave them the best handling at the time. I guess a triple reefed main on a C42 seems to be adequate for strong gale or storm conditions.
was only two people on that trip. I guess someone could read it that way. What I meant to imply, was that their were no pro's and none on board were young bucks nor all sailing "gorilla's". As far as the staysail, I'm not sure how that was cut, nor what weight cloth it was. I think they just set the sails that gave them the best handling at the time. I guess a triple reefed main on a C42 seems to be adequate for strong gale or storm conditions.
Huntalina?
I'll start by saying I have owner both (and have neither now). Although I'm impressed with the factory support and performance of Hunters, the late models are BUTT UGLY and have lower resale value in New England than Catalinas. That is try with older models too. (check the book) Not everyone agrees because people seem to buy them.
I'll start by saying I have owner both (and have neither now). Although I'm impressed with the factory support and performance of Hunters, the late models are BUTT UGLY and have lower resale value in New England than Catalinas. That is try with older models too. (check the book) Not everyone agrees because people seem to buy them.
Curiosity Survey
How many current Hunter Owners, reading this thread, are former Catalina Owners?
How many current Hunter Owners, reading this thread, are former Catalina Owners?
Daryl
You said that the the late model Hunters are BUTT UGLY but not the Catalinas? When you look at the late models of both they are so much more similar than different... I think your "Huntalina" term is right on the money! Oh well, I guess that is why there are still multiple production boat manufacturers in business. One man's Butt Ugly Hunter is another mans treasure
Regards, -Jim- s/v Forever (H456)
You said that the the late model Hunters are BUTT UGLY but not the Catalinas? When you look at the late models of both they are so much more similar than different... I think your "Huntalina" term is right on the money! Oh well, I guess that is why there are still multiple production boat manufacturers in business. One man's Butt Ugly Hunter is another mans treasure
Regards, -Jim- s/v Forever (H456)Jim just in general the C42 has been in production
since 1988 and really hasn't changed much in apperance. So the late model boats look relatively the same, except for the aft walk thru. They are definitely a more traditional and classic look like the C36, C34 Now the C350, C387 are the newer versions and hull types and I will concede a less traditional look with a much wider aft, etc.
since 1988 and really hasn't changed much in apperance. So the late model boats look relatively the same, except for the aft walk thru. They are definitely a more traditional and classic look like the C36, C34 Now the C350, C387 are the newer versions and hull types and I will concede a less traditional look with a much wider aft, etc.
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