Has anyone ever considered a fuel cell?

[Alan]

...installing a Fuel Cell on-board in place of that smelly noisy generator and reducing the size of the battery bank?Fuel cell technology produces almost no greenhouse gases and is completely silent. As a by-product, it produces fresh water for house use.Might be worth considering before jumping into that diesel genset.

 

[Gord May]

YES

Google some of the fuel cell manufacturers:BallardDAIS AnalyticFuel Cell EnergyH PowerHoneywellInternational Fuel CellsMax PowerPlug PowerSiemens WestinghouseTechnology Management IncZtek

 

[Chris Connor]

Magazine Article

Hello All,I have been thinking about purchasing a Honda 2000eu for a back-up. While researching the idea, I came across a recent magazine article that discussed the option of fuel cells. The magazine was European but I can not remember which one it was. The article was very thought provoking though.If I find it again, I will advise.Regards,Chris

 

[RichH]

"Hello TowBoatUS .....

..... could you bring me a recharge for my fuel cell. uh ...... You dont handle fuel cells. uh .....You dont know of anyone who does, .... no marinas, .... noone in withiin 300 miles of the coast". uh, could you just bring a boat with a long thick rope to tow me then? "Might just as well put in a suitcase sized nuclear power plant or a large diesel tank, as put in a fuel cell, because youre NOT going to get it 'refilled', locally. Maybe 50 years from now, but definitely not today. ;-(

 

[MoonSailer]

Fuel cells powered by methanol

The best fuel is hydrogen. But some cells will work off of methanol. The big problem is cost. A great ideal would be to go total electric. A large battery bank solar cells and an electric propulsion motor with recharge ability.The rechage ability is really a great factor for a sailboat. Recharge while sailing or while anchored in a current!!! You don't need a transmission and without transmission losses a smaller engine can be used. But you are talking some bucks!!! If some of these companies would try for volume sales instead of charging a huge amount per item this technology would really take off. But just the electric motors cost as much or more than a small diesel. It can't cost as much to manufacture!!!! If they would knock down the price so tha tit is cheaper than installing a diesel a lot of people would go electric. It would be so great not to have the noise and stink and having to deal with a diesel that you only use for a few hours a month.

 

[Brian M H23]

The thing about fuel cells

Is that the internals are just so expensive! On a polymer Electrolyte fuel cell, for example, cell manufacturer must purchase the mebranes(it's a very high tech material that allows hydrogen ions through, but not electrons),and you need 180 sq ft for an automotive-sized cell. You also need 2*180 sq feet of complex, gold plated sheet metal stampings. 180 sq feet of gas-permeable diffusion media with microporous coatings. And then all the infrastructure to run and monitor the thing.If we assume all these materials were produced with raw materials and they were all only $1 per sq ft. then you're looking at $800 or so in raw materials before any processing, and $1 a sq ft is unreasonably cheap. These things cost thousands of dollars, plus precision machinery and chemistry to manufacture - as opposed to a cast iron (most abundant material on earth) engine block and head and crankshaft. I don't see them being price-equivalents anytime soon, no matter how many they make.

 

[Tom S]

Cost is a big factor

Here is one manufacturer that is going after the "on board generator" market.http://www.max-power.com/Very slick set up at a cost though. The cost is about 5000-5500 Euro's. Not sure how much a genset would cost installed but this might be comparable in cost. The bigger negative I see is it only produces around 110 - 140 a/h's in a day . There is no way it'll do any good powering an Air Conditioning Unit which is one of the prime reasons I would put a genset on a boat. Which makes this more of an alternative to wind or solar power. Also you still need to purchase Fuel Cells (I think they last around 72 hours) and another negative I read is that they only guarenteed 70% of the nominal power after 3 years or 3000 operating hours. Though you might be able to get the system "refreshed"

 

[Alex]

Early technology adopter

We need more people buying bleeding edge technologies so people like most of us can enjoy. Flat panel TV used to cost $10K+. DVD player was $2000 when it first came out. If folks like Alan did't contemplate advanced technology, the price will never come down.If I have the resource to do so, I will embrace advance technology that eventually will benefit mankind. For the mean time, I'll just do the cheering on the side line.

 

[Alan]

In addition....

... to running all house electrical needs it could also run a DC electric drive motor in place of that Yanmar. Now you've eliminated a very large expense, lots of weight, a fuel tank, and all the maintenance problems associated with internal combustion engines.I guarantee you that this is the future for automobiles. The technology is here and public demand will bring down pricing. It will also decrease the need for fossil fuels and shift the balance of power that OPEC has right now.

 

[Brian M H23]

Not until

It may very well be the future for portable transportation - but only after the electicity generation capacity of the united states is high enough to cover all the energy currently accounted for in oil. Not to mention all the other things that need to be in place (hydrogen filling stations, hydrogen storage systems) - it's very hard to beat gasoline or ethanol for potential energy in a small space at a low weight. Look into the efficiency of cars powered by a small compressor and compressed air, or even cars run on liquid nitrogen. The biggest advantages : they use COMMON materials and fuels - while the hydrogen fuel cell is constructed entirely of rare materials and powered by a fuel which does not exist in natue - for every watt or power you get out of the hydrogen, wether it be electricity, heat, lost hydrogen (btw, a fuel cell does not consume 100% of the hydrogen you put into it when run at usable power levels, it needs to be vented or you need a monster compressor to put it back in the tank..after you strain the water out of the exhaust), more than that in electricity already went into it.Like the toyota prius, fuel cells are hot because they are high tech. But a VW jetta TDI gets as good or better fuel mileage, weighs a lot less, costs a lot less, doesn't have 1000 lbs of nimh batteries, and is much faster. But it's just a small, efficient car. Who want's that!

 

[tkanzler]

The thing about hydrogen not usually mentioned

is that most of it is made from natural gas. That's not exactly getting away from fossil fuels.You can certainly use electrolysis, with energy from solar, wind, tidal, wave, etc., but it's a very, very inefficient process. You get much higher efficiency "well-to-wheels" if you store the electric energy in batteries or capacitors than if you make hydrogen gas, compress to very high pressures (like 10ksi), or liquify (temperature near absolute zero, plus it has to constantly vent off), transport it, then use it.Battery technology is racing ahead at breakneck speeds, and is far more likely to end up the winner for portable energy storage, where suitable (aircraft are not a good candidate for the foreseeable future). The link below is to the Tesla Motors web site - all electric 2 seater sports car that does 200+ miles at highway speeds on a single charge, zero-to-sixty in just under 4 seconds. Inconceivable just a few years ago.