Has Anyone Actually Used A Inhauler Like This Setup?

[rardiH36]

With toe rail sheeting on my boat, and a preference not to install a jib sheet track next to the cabin top, I have been wondering about an in-haul setup like in the attached pictures. (copied from l-36.com/inhauler.php)

Does anybody have experience with the practicality of it?

While undoubtedly the arrangement will do the job of in-hauling, what I don't know is how it performs in actual use of tacking frequently. When the jib is flogging a bit and/or the jib sheets are slack during the tack, how severely does the setup trash about? And can the carabiner line and the sheets get twisted into knotted tangle?

Maybe this is practical is only for longer stretches on a single close-reach tack? Or if enough people are on the boat to tend both sheets during tacking to be sure that the sheets don't ever go too slack?

Thanks

 

[kenn]

We do have a jib-sheet track, but occasionally we can point better by looping the loaded jib sheet over the end of the cabin-top handrail, which for us is another way to shift the pivot point inboard. (smaller boat = lower sheet loads, obviously)

It would probably be fairly simple for you to rig up a temporary inhauler to test the idea, before you start drilling holes in the cabin. You could attach a sheave to the opposite toerail or a stay base, and protect the cabin-top with a piece of carpet.

 

[Merlin Clark]

I think this is called a "barber hauler".

 

[capta]

We use what I call the "magic sheet" to do the same thing; a snatch block and a second sheet w/ a snap shackle on it. We release it to tack/gybe and set it up again once on the other tack. Definitely not a short tacking system, but helps immensely at times, and not just for pointing. I've even used the system at the end of the main boom to get a better sail shape off the wind.
I'd imagine using a metal fitting as in the pics would chafe the sheet pretty badly.

 

[Ray Bowles]

Your system certainly will do the job but the ability of it to release the jib sheet on a tack might be a problem. You have pointed that out.
I'm a sucker for detailed technical systems so I love the drawing, I'd probably build it and then find out it doesn't work.
I've found snatch block systems work best.
Thanks for the fun of looking at the drawing.
Ray

 

[Joe]

You could modify to reduce chafe and friction by shackling a couple of blocks to the forward ring.... or just one block, with a single barber hauling line that you switch back and forth between the loaded sheets as needed.

Quite frankly, you'll find many variations on the barber hauler rig.. some pull out, others will pull in.... On my Cat 27, with the large headsail up, I can in haul with a carabliner equipped line from the sheet to the windward halyard winch on the cabin top. It's a lot quicker than running a second sheet to the inside track....

I might suggest you experiment with the cabin top winches, if you have them, in the manner that I mentioned. The deal with your example is that it's a small headsail and the clew is well forward, that's why they have to resort to placing the pivot ring forward of the mast.... Your sailplan may require it be further aft.

When I use mine, I don't tack back and forth with it hooked up... with my 110 or 135, it's very convenient to reach up and unhook it before I tack. Then on the new tack I can change winches and re clip the line on to the new sheet. This is what I would suggest you do... even if you're racing you're going to ease the jib a bit before tacking.... so unclipping the barber hauler makes an allowance for that slight bearing off maneuver before tacking.

If on your much larger boat you find you're not comfortable hooking and unhooking it for each turn, and desire a bit more permanent set up, then by all means go with your diagram..... the big decision is where to put the pivot because its position is determined by the clew location of the sail you'll be using.

 

[Doc_holiday]

Is the idea here to keep the jib tight to aft but bringing it in closer to center than the regular sheeting allows? I hope I am understanding this. I have, even with my small jib wondered how I could accomplish this to close the "slot" more than just tight sheets. Also seems it would reduce stretch but I could be wrong.

 

[rardiH36]

Thanks for the responses.

Joe's info sparked an idea for a no cost and short 10 minute setup time experiment. I have a carabiner. Tie a line to it. Clip over one sheet, lead the line through an unused sheave on my deck organizer, and then back to a cabin top winch to secure. Tack back an forth a few times to see how it works. Criteria is the carabiner doesn't snag/tangle and doesn't crack into the deck gelcoat too much. And I can manage dealing with the extra sail control conveniently enough so as not to detract from the more critical stuff.

I should be able to try out this week and will report back!

 

[Al - s/v Persephone]

Depends on your sail plan.

On my fractional rig (H36) with only a 110% jib, I just use the lazy sheet (on the windward sheet winch), whenever I have even a slight reef furled onto the jib for beating on the wind.

Works like a charm (though tacking when not reefed at all requires a bit of care in tending two sheets without snagging on the mast ring-mount for my whisker pole.

Fair winds,
Al - s/v Persephone

 

[FastOlson]

I think this is called a "barber hauler".

Yes it is!

 

[RichH]

To make such 'in-hauling' (barber hauling) easier and simpler, if possible set the barberhauler lines parallel to the horizontal so that they ONLY pull along the horizontal plane and do not add any vertical force. Any vertical force would change the fore/aft tension of the angle from the 'farilead car'.
The 'best' way to use a barberhauler is to only adjust it AFTER all the tell tales on both jib and mainsail are flowing 'perfect'. Once the tell tales are flowing 'perfect', then only ascertain the amount of barber haul needed by watching the SPEEDO, and ignoring any 'so-called backwinding' that occurs in the mainsail. Pull in or ease out on the barberhauler to get maximum speed or to get maximum VMG. For easier usage, put marks on your barberhaul control line and record at which mark you got the best VMG output vs. wind/wave conditions so you can easily 'return' to that setting at later times, etc.
Hint: the lower the apparent wind velocity the closer 'in' the barberhauler; the higher the wind speed the 'further out' the barberhauler.

Then learn to 'turbo sail' ----- Once you arrive at perfect shape and trim, including barberhauling for the day, then consider: http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=128753&highlight=footing post#12 "Footing off" to gain more 'lift' from the sails and keel for optimized 'pointing' and getting the keel to 'lift to windward' when pointing.

If you find barberhauling to be an advantage, you can later add a second jib track, or 'radial' line controlled cross-deck traveller for the 'jib cars'

 

[Jackdaw]

One of my favorte setups... from the Seascape 27. A single length of low-stretch line spliced into two lengths of dyneema with low friction rings. This setup allows one adjustment to control the position of the rings for BOTH tacks. The line goes through the center of the cabintop, forward to a turning block, and back across the deck to a nifty PXR.

As Rich notes the defection is almost all horizontal, which makes it hand load on this boat.

 

[rardiH36]

RichH:

Thanks. I will have to use the watching the tell tale and turbosailing approach rather than observing speedo or vmg readings. Reason is that on SF Bay, the wind velocity and direction are constantly varying; as is the current direction and speed. So I don't think I can ever really tell if I am going faster or slower because of sail trimming adjustments -- or because of the elements!

 

[RichH]

If youre running such as the "SailTimer" app (ipad, or laptop Mac etc.) for maximizing your tacking angles and length of each leg distance (WHEN to tack), youll find that such 'apps' when integrated to an electronic masthead 'wind machine' will remove all the 'guesswork' as they are self-correcting' for variable wind and current (constantly updating themselves). .............. (There, I just spent another big Boat Buck for ya) ;-)


I HATE all this electronic gizmo crap for racing; but, if you want to be top competitive you really HAVE to use such, as just about EVERYONE else is using them.
Its really a shame as it takes all the 'expertise' out of racing and makes serious racing a game of 'who can afford the most gizmos' .... just sit there and 'watch the indicators and read-outs to tell you what to do'. Such should be illegal for racing; but, since 'everyone' is doing it you cant afford not to if you want to be at the head of the fleet. :-(

 

[RichH]

One of my favorte setups... from the Seascape 27. A single length of low-stretch line spliced into two lengths of dyneema with low friction rings. This setup allows one adjustment to control the position of the rings for BOTH tacks. The line goes through the center of the cabintop, forward to a turning block, and back across the deck to a nifty PXR.

As Rich notes the defection is almost all horizontal, which makes it hand load on this boat.

"SLICK, and simple/elegant, to boot"

 

[rardiH36]

One of my favorte setups... from the Seascape 27. A single length of low-stretch line spliced into two lengths of dyneema with low friction rings. This setup allows one adjustment to control the position of the rings for BOTH tacks. The line goes through the center of the cabintop, forward to a turning block, and back across the deck to a nifty PXR.

As Rich notes the defection is almost all horizontal, which makes it hand load on this boat.

Jackdaw:

I can't really see the full line routing from the picture. What actually pulls the rings at the end of the black thrawtships line either to port or starboard? Also I had wondered if attaching the other end of sheet rings or carabiners to a stanchion or shroud by means of bungee cord might be a way to keep things from crashing around on the deck. In your picture, a short piece of line connects each ring to a shroud. Is this bungee cord?

 

[dscribner]

One of my favorte setups... from the Seascape 27. A single length of low-stretch line spliced into two lengths of dyneema with low friction rings. This setup allows one adjustment to control the position of the rings for BOTH tacks. The line goes through the center of the cabintop, forward to a turning block, and back across the deck to a nifty PXR.

As Rich notes the defection is almost all horizontal, which makes it hand load on this boat.

Is this setup standard (most lines attached to the sea hood)? If each line is loaded to 150 lbs, that's 1200 lbs on the handful of screws holding the hood down. Probably OK (it is on a boat in a show) but gives me the willies looking at it.

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw:

I can't really see the full line routing from the picture. What actually pulls the rings at the end of the black thrawtships line either to port or starboard? Also I had wondered if attaching the other end of sheet rings or carabiners to a stanchion or shroud by means of bungee cord might be a way to keep things from crashing around on the deck. In your picture, a short piece of line connects each ring to a shroud. Is this bungee cord?

Yes, it it bungee corded to the shrouds; it keeps the rings from clanging on the deck.

The dyneema lines run into a low friction ring on the deck, and forward to a turning block before coming back to the Spinlock PXR right in the middle just behind the deck entry. One of the beauties of dyneema is that it is so slippery. Against low friction surfaces it slides almost as well as it rolls through a block.

 

[Jackdaw]

Is this setup standard (most lines attached to the sea hood)? If each line is loaded to 150 lbs, that's 1200 lbs on the handful of screws holding the hood down. Probably OK (it is on a boat in a show) but gives me the willies looking at it.

I know the designer; trust me its fine. ;^) Designed for that.

Plus the load is in shear, not tension.

 

[rardiH36]

Thanks -- the setup definitely is slick.

First for me is to just try out the quick-dirty setup I plan to experiment with to determine whether the extra sail control is something I can handle on SF Bay as a mostly solo sailor. If so, your photo will assist with my on inhauler (or barberhauler) arrangement.