Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheeting?

[rardiH36]

My 1980 Cherubini 36 was originally delivered with toe rail only jib sheeting. I still do it that way. Depending on the jib size, amount unfurled and wind speed, snap blocks are simply moved forward/aft along the toe rail cut-outs.

What other Cherubini models came without inside (next to cabin top) jib sheet tracks?

Has anybody made the conversion to inside track sheeting? Was there a perceptible performance improvement up wind -- or not?

Thanks
rardi

 

[rufus1138]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1062876#post1062876

 

[rardiH36]

Hi Rufus1138:

Thanks. By coincidence dance, the url you posted happens to be the thread that I started yesterday on the Don G's sail trim forum. I've had informative responses over there, but I thought to try also on our specific boat forum (Cherubini Hunter) forum as well. Who better to consult than another Cherubini Hunter owner!

Cherubini Hunter owners, please weigh-in ...

rardi

 

[Ed H]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

Hi Rardi- my 1981 Hunter 33 uses the toe rail method. I almost always am able to point higher than other boats, so we do well in our local regattas. I have never tried to adjust the sheeting point (since it looks like tools are needed to move the block) but if it would add some speed, I would love to be able to adjust the point on the toe rail while under sail. A friend mentioned "snatch blocks" but the ones I saw for sale were $$$$. Do you adjust your sheeting points while under sail? Ed H

 

[rufus1138]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

sorry rardi i didnt realize.

ed, if you change the blocks out to have snap shackles to the toe rail its very easy to adjust the sheeting point as long as you run the entire jib sheet outside the life line stanchions by using a turning block at the extreme stern of the boat, no need for a track if you ask me, my 27 points higher than any other cruising boats in my size range and im not hurting for jib trim for sure.

 

[Blaise]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

Midnight Sun has inboard genoa tracks with line drive adjustable ball bearing cars from Garhaur. They are better than great. Drastically improves pointing angles over the toerail sheeting. We go uphill with the J35's. We are also using a kevlar composite 135 genny.

 

[rufus1138]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

lol that jib might have something to do with it too, i can vouch for the garhauer tackle tho, that stuff is killer and if you clear the shrouds with it then i would go for it op, my 27 cant because the shrouds are on the toe rail already but from my experience racing a range of boats the inside tracks will help point especially if you can oversheet the main past the centerline of the vessel, at that point the toe rail becomes awesome for mounting your spinnaker tackle since its very adjustable and outside all the jib gear so things stay slightly more organized for the foredeck guy but i can tell you that we just live by nature in a world of chaos up on the bow...god i love being foredeck!

 

[rardiH36]

Hi Rardi- my 1981 Hunter 33 uses the toe rail method. I almost always am able to point higher than other boats, so we do well in our local regattas. I have never tried to adjust the sheeting point (since it looks like tools are needed to move the block) but if it would add some speed, I would love to be able to adjust the point on the toe rail while under sail. A friend mentioned "snatch blocks" but the ones I saw for sale were $$$$. Do you adjust your sheeting points while under sail? Ed H

Ed:

Great your boat points so well with the toe rail sheeting. If your current toe rail blocks are fixed at one point, seems that you have one sail and also that you don't roller reef it?

My boat when I bought it seven years ago still had the original snap blocks! Actually three of them. I have stowed them away however. Instead I converted a couple Schaefer standard blocks to easily move along the toe rail by the addition of swiveling type snap shackles like per these:

http://shop.torresen.com/ships_stor...e=Snap+Shackle+Large+Bale+73mm&sectionid=5111

Or Garhauer sells single blocks already fitted with snap shackles for quite reasonable $'s as on this page.

http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=16

As for adjusting the location while under sail, yes and no. It can't be done safely while the block is under load which is the case in any wind more than amost dead calm. Generally I adjust only when changing the amount of head sail furled. But sometimes also when I notice that the leech might be too tight vis-a-vis the foot or vice versa for the wind velocity of the moment. First I will move the lazy sheet block to the new location on the toe rail. Then take in or let out the sail. Then tack. Then mirror the new lazy sheet block to the same location as the other one.

Another variation I've done is add a second block to the toe rail on each side further aft close to the primary winches. The gives a better lead to the winch and ensures that the sheet is connected to the boat at all times.

rardi

 

[rardiH36]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

Hi Blaise:

Thanks the info. Looking at various photos of the 37c, seems that the shroud-at-deck location is similar to my 36: say about 8" or so inside the toe rail. Not right up against the cabin top, but not right on the toe rail either. So shrouds shouldn't be an issue for me.

So, was the 37c originally shipped with no jib tracks but instead a nice set of snap blocks for toe rail sheeting?

rardi

 

[Blaise]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

My boat was delivered with just the snatch blocks for the toerail. I believe the 27 could also benefit from inboard tracks. I realize that the shrouds are at the toerail, but I believe that trimming the clew further inboard would help a lot. This is all conjecture, since I have never actually sailed a 27.

 

[rufus1138]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

the 27 tall rig atleast seems to benifit more from a bigger headsail with less hoist, call me crazy but ill invite anyone with a full hoist jib on a 27 hunter to sail against mine on a light-medium air day and i promise i know the results already, my headsail is a #2 off of god only knows what but its short of the masthead by 4 feet or so and has lots of power very low in the sail, big fat thing, this helped my hull speed in light-medium air more than all of the barberhaul experiments i ever did with the 100% jib which is the limit for inside the shrouds work on a 27, my #2 frankensail works out to about a 155%

 

[Ed H]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

Rufus and Rardi: Thanks for the tips; I was looking at "snatch blocks" which were over $300 each. These snap shackles are very reasonable. What size should I get??

 

[Stu Jackson]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

Ed, be very careful with snatch blocks. They have limitations in load carrying capacities.

"What a snatch block shouldn’t do: What you cannot do is use a snatch block as a turning block. They aren’t intended to take those types of heavy loads. The line passing though a snatch block should not turn sharper than 135° to keep loads down."

From: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...talogId=10001&page=Snatch-Blocks#.Uk2IFxDrySo

 

[rufus1138]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

lol ed, the smallest snap shackle you can get is going to be more than enough, the loads on ur jib sheets shouldnt be more than 1500lbs, if it is you should have reefed long ago, i got the smallest ones i could find and i think they're rated for 3800lbs.

 

[Ed H]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

Thanks Guys... Can't wait for Christmas.... Rardi- Sorry to side-track things. Ed H

 

[rardiH36]

Rufus and Rardi: Thanks for the tips; I was looking at "snatch blocks" which were over $300 each. These snap shackles are very reasonable. What size should I get??

Ed: Sorry, I can't advise with any degree of expertise what load limit/size you might need. But also, consider that the cost of the Garhauer snatch blocks with +2000lb limit don't seem to be much more expensive than a high quality snap shackle. And as pointed out, the angles are less than 90 degrees, so effective load on the block from the jib sheet will be less. If you buy snatch blocks, then you could move your existing fixed blocks further aft along the toe rail for sheet better lead angle to the winches. Another thought about strength: How strong is each of the cut-outs in the toe rail that we attach the blocks to? 1/2" 30 year old aluminum ... Hmm

Rardi

 

[rufus1138]

Re: Has Anybody Converted from ToeRail to Inside Track Sheet

lol my cutouts have held a 155 genny close hauled with the rail in the water without showing any wear, heck the burrs from the machining work are still there. aluminum is an odd beast. if its cast and worked correctly its very inert in a corrosive environment, where steel will erode on its own aluminum will form an oxide coating and then the corrosion will halt and if left undisturbed will remain viable for an unknown amount of years, if abused scratched dinged and otherwise mistreated it will like all things fail but running a sheet block is well within the limits, even on a 36 or 37 foot sloop.

 

[rardiH36]

lol my cutouts have held a 155 genny close hauled with the rail in the water without showing any wear, heck the burrs from the machining work are still there. aluminum is an odd beast. if its cast and worked correctly its very inert in a corrosive environment, where steel will erode on its own aluminum will form an oxide coating and then the corrosion will halt and if left undisturbed will remain viable for an unknown amount of years, if abused scratched dinged and otherwise mistreated it will like all things fail but running a sheet block is well within the limits, even on a 36 or 37 foot sloop.

Rufus:

Can't argue a bit with your observations. Although I move my snatch blocks quite a bit along the toe rail, its maybe only four of the cut-outs that get 75% of the use. I've looked, but can't observe any concerns that the aluminum isn't up to the task ... even after 30 years!