Harness Upgrade installed, don't like it.

[Inter20sailor]

Having just did the install (engine side only) I can say that I don't like it. The term strip, and placement does not seem secure enough for me. What I would like to do is do away with the term strip, and use heat-shrink butt crimps, and heat shrink over that. That would allow a 'neat' wire package, that is beyond secure.

Thoughts?

(same thing on engine panel side)

Thanks!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Sure, why not. Many have done that. The reason for the term strip is to make it easier for a swap out replacement of the stupid harness connectors, that's all, and is written up in the link I provided earlier to the original wiring harness article by Seaward/Catalina.

One of our C34 skippers agrees with you, and maintains that all wiring to the engine should be hardwired anyway, since if you ever remove or replace the engine you'd remove the wires from the engine anyway.

Your boat, your choice.

 

[Inter20sailor]

Stu,
Yeah... Thank you. Going to do that tomorrow. Heat shrink and good crimps have got to be a much better connection.

I have done the re-wire.... I'll redo the splice tomorrow.

Thanks again!

 

[Bob M.]

I bought the upgrade, but have not yet installed it. I'm unclear as to why the terminal strip is such a bad idea. Is this mostly a salt water corrosion issue?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Bob, nope, it's simply an electrical CONNECTION issue. It's a very convenient way to make the connections to replace the trailer pins without having a more difficult time getting in there to strip and crimp connections on the wires for new butt connections. Your boat, your choice. I didn't mention this before, but my PO had the terminal strips installed well before I bought our '86 boat in '98 and the one in the engine compartment is still working just fine.

There are three ways to do it:

1. The "Euro" terminal strip provided by Seaward when you buy the harness. The harness is the wiring itself. The strips are there to replace the stupid trailer connectors. You can replace the connectors WITHOUT replacing the wiring (harness). Many have done so.

2. Butt connectors instead of the "Euro" strip.

3. Terminal strips with ring terminals on each end of the wires, as suggested by Maine Sail. This method requires crimping, just like the butt connector method.

Also, remember that there are two purposes to this whole replacement: 1) getting rid of the trailer connections; 2) replacing the ammeter with a voltmeter to eliminate the long charging run in way undersized wiring to the cockpit panel.

 

[Tom Metzger]

Also, remember that there are two purposes to this whole replacement: 1) getting rid of the trailer connections; 2) replacing the ammeter with a voltmeter to eliminate the long charging run in way undersized wiring to the cockpit panel.

Stu has mentioned several times in different places that the purpose is to replace the ammeter with a voltmeter. It may seem to be nit picking, but if the purpose is to replace the ammeter there are a lot of easier ways. The purpose is to get rid of 20 feet of #10 wire in the alternator circuit. I commented in another thread that I don't think replacing the connectors is very important once you take the high current off of pins 4 and 5.

Replacing the ammeter is an after thought, but there is no pressing need to do it. I already have lots of voltmeters on the boat and saw no reason to spend money for another one. I kept my ammeter even though it has little purpose. Before I installed a buzzer on the alarm circuits I used it to see the current going to the glow plugs.

As always, YMMV.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I agree with Tom. However, you really need to know what you're doing, and how ammeters work, 'cuz most folks simply don't. That's why I wrote this: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6032.0.html

As Tom says, once the charging source no longer has to go through the small wiring to the cockpit panel, what you have to do is figure out what wiring the ammeter IS measuring. Tom, if the alternator output is going "elsewhere" then what is the internal shunt ammeter measuring. I'm certainly missing something here. Please help me understand, thanks.

I also commented on replacing the connectors on that other thread.

 

[Tom Metzger]

Stu - You still have the red wire connected which provides the power for the engine - fuel pump, glow plugs, instruments, and solenoid.

The attached wiring diagram is from the blurb I wrote for EricsonYachts.org about ten years ago. We are talking about the red wire, pin 5 on the connectors, which is not moved.

The red lines are my changes which includes separating the start button from the glow plug switch. On the 1980s vintage Ericsons the panel is hard to get to so it is a PITA to have to hit both switches, and the switches don't hold up well (they are generally installed with the drain holes up). The base WD is straight out of the Universal Owner's Manual.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks, Tom.

 

[rbmcintire]

I'm in the dark as to what the #6 purple wire does, in regards to the gauges, key switch and alternator. Plus, I've read before that the key must be left in the switch to read amps on the ammeter, and that removing the key while operating the engine will kill the alternator diodes. Does that remain true with this wiring scheme?

Rob

 

[Tom Metzger]

Rob - The purple wire is the switched 12 volt supply from the key switch to all engine functions - Fuel pump, instruments, voltage regulator, glow plugs, etc.

Before answering the second question let me point out that I have an Ericson with a stock Universal M-25XP engine/panel, NOT a Catalina. Catalina uses its own wiring scheme which may not be exactly the same as mine. As I said, my wiring diagram is from the Universal Owner's Manual.

On my engine, before or after the modification, turning off the key switch shuts down the regulator, fuel pump, etc; it does not open the output circuit of the alternator so it will not affect the diodes. The ammeter will not read with the key off in either case.

I got into this thread from a link by Stu on another forum, and hadn't realized I was on a Catalina forum. That said, my son has a C-30 with an M-25 engine which I have only seen once and never sailed on. Some day...

 

[Stu Jackson]

I'm in the dark as to what the #6 purple wire does, in regards to the gauges, key switch and alternator. Plus, I've read before that the key must be left in the switch to read amps on the ammeter, and that removing the key while operating the engine will kill the alternator diodes. Does that remain true with this wiring scheme?

Rob, the original Seaward Catalina wiring harness article shows all the wiring colors and functions:

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Engine_Harness_Upgrade

I also sketched the same thing out when I upgraded my alternator and regulator:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4548.0.html

 

[Inter20sailor]

The weather here in Seattle has prevented me from doing the panel side of the upgrade. I went back and took out the term strips. I used heat-shrink butt connectors, then slid heat shrink tubing over wire pairs for a nice, secure bundle.... I will wrap said bundle in plastic coating, then, use tape for a nice finished look.

I plan on doing the same thing on the panel side. If I was to do it all over again, I would make my own harness, use ring connectors from engine, all the way to panel. Then, there would be no splice whatsoever. Maybe next summer project.

Stu, I'll let you know about how the panel came out. I need a good weather break!

Thanks again for all the information.

Oh... I have a 91 Cat 30, the upgrade was not installed, obviously, but there is a 'Voltmeter' in the panel. When removing the orange charging wire... where is the voltmeter getting the reading from?

As I said, I have not taken the panel apart yet to verify..... I just wanted more information.

Cheers,

 

[Stu Jackson]

but there is a 'Voltmeter' in the panel. When removing the orange charging wire... where is the voltmeter getting the reading from?

The wiring harness article drawings show the voltmeter getting + from the ignition switch and (-) from a ground wire.

rtfm???

 

[Inter20sailor]

The wiring harness article drawings show the voltmeter getting + from the ignition switch and (-) from a ground wire.

rtfm???

Yeah, just an electric virgin here. I read that schematic as having an amp and not a voltmeter.... I was not sure if the wiring was the same.

Hoping to take the panel off this weekend and finish it.

 

[Inter20sailor]

So I was finally able to finish the upgrade on the panel side, with a few changes from the original instructions. On both sides, I did not use the included 'Euro Term Strip'.... I found that to be, at least in looks, non-sturdy, and I did not feel confident that it would not fail at the most inopportune time.

I used marine grade, heat shrink butt connectors and heat resistant spiral wrap.
On the panel side, when I cut out the original molded plug (which was heat damaged!) the existing harness was not long enough for a proper splice, that would allow for the panel to be removed for future use. I was not able to fully remove the orange charging wire from the harness, rather, I capped off both ends with heat shrink tubing, then folded it back upon itself for another sleeve of heat shrink. (on both ends)

I removed the panel, made up a four foot 'harness' with new wire off the panel, using heat shrink ring connectors and spiral wrap. Using heat shrink butt connectors, I know have a nice, solid and secure connection, with room left over to remove and work on the panel (for replacing instrument lights).

All in all, it came out very nice, neat, secure and safe. I'm just wondering: How many people out there have used the euro-strip? I'm sure they are fine... I just did not have a good feeling about them.

Thanks for all the excellent input.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Glad to hear it worked and thanks for the good description. I guess most folks used the term strips 'cuz the replacement harnesses came with them. It's only more recently that folks have begun to be more proficient with their own electrical tools. My PO had the term strip installed at the engine end, still fine after 20+ (assume he installed it - had it installed - soon after he bought our 1986 boat) years. That said, if I was doing it over again, I'd do what you did.