Hard grounding

[purcellr]

I am planning on taking a look at a Catalina 320 wing keel that has a recent history of a hard grounding. The broker, who was on the boat at the time (it was undergoing a sea trial) said it was indeed a "good,hard grounding" on some rock or coral. The bow dipped to the water line and the stern went airborne. They took the boat back to the dock and didn't note anything serious like taking on water, handling issues, or the like. They plan on having her hauled out to inspect the hull and keel this weekend. I still want to make the 2 hour drive to look at the boat though. it's been wayyy too long since I've been on the water.

What type of damage would be expected from this kind of grounding? How likely is it that the boat took serious damage that would make me want to walk away? I know there is no way to know without pulling the boat but hope to get some idea as to what to expect or look for if I do go up. Any possible "long term issues" that I need to be concerned about?
Thanks

 

[MrUnix]

I did the same thing with our H27, but while under tow at a pretty good clip! Plowed the bow under water and stern shot up in the air. Darn near threw me and the crew overboard. Got my diving gear and took a look after we got back to port. The damage: a slight indentation about the size of a quarter and some chipped/scraped paint on the leading edge of the keel. No problems with keel bolts, no leaks, nothing.. just the little indentation and paint issues.

Hopefully you will find the same results.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[Steve Dion]

Ditto! I did this on a H25 (Cherubini) at Lake Tahoe. We hit a rock about a foot up from the bottom of the keel. It put a dent in the keel (lead) and that was the extent of the damage. Sold the boat about 6 yrs later, dent was still there! <g>

 

[petersea]

A hard grounding can be a minor issue (as two previous post indicated) OR it can cause major damage. Since this was done on a "sea trial" I wonder if it was by another possible buyer and if so if the boat is still for sale why did he reject it ?? Clearly you want a professional surveyor to go over the whole boat before you purchase it. In addition to checking the keel for damage check the entire hull from the keel/hull joint and keel bolts to the liner to all the bulkhead tabbing etc etc. This is something that should be done on a purchase survey anyway. Additionally check all the rigging in case there was any unusual stress on it from the hard grounding (again should be done anyway for a pre purchase survey). Tell the surveyor what happened ! ! Let him know so that he pays extra attention to all the possible area that could have been damaged. Ask the surveyor to explain the "CATALINA SMILE". What I'm saying is especially since you know it hit hard check ever thing for damage before you buy it rather then finding out after. Could be nothing or could be a big problem only a professional knowledgeable inspection will tell. Good Luck with your boat shopping !

 

[tedsbeds]

On a hard grounding force is applied to the rear of the keel/stub joint forcing it upwards. In the bilge, at the aft end of the keel stub, look for delamination or fractured laminate. Look at where the keel bolt nuts snog down on the glass. Are they now indented? Loose? a lead keel absorbs and diperses the energy of a grounding. A cast iron keel tranmits the forces more directly to the attachment points. And yes every bulkhead and tabbed joint could have been jolted loose. Be smart, hire a surveyer.

 

[Tim R.]

A good surveyor with a phenolic hammer is going to find any delamination. I would not move forward with any deal until a surveyor has had a good look and tap. But you already know that.

 

[purcellr]

Thanks!

Thanks to all for the great advice and sharing experiences.
I hope the damage is no different than what Steve or Unix experienced and definitely plan on getting a god survey regardless.
I figured the front of the keel and joint could potentially be affected hadn't considered the aft section or other attachment points in the rigging but that does makes sense. Very helpful insight.
I will be sure to ask about those areas if we get to the point of a survey/sea trial. Hopefully my next post will be about good places to sail my new boat.

 

[wflowe2]

I have a 320 (great boat by the way) with a fin keel. I had my first hard grounding this summer when I started chasing a friends boat (informal race) and his 4.5' wing made it around the corner but mt 6.2' fin didn't. Wind was strong and we were moving well (I was catching him by the way) when all of a sudden the stern lifted up, the bow dropped and I stopped. I luffed all sails, looked in the bilge, (no water ) and was able to back out of the grounding under power. Boat showed no signs of problems the rest of the season. She is now on her trailer in the yard for winter and the only damage I see is a scratch and small notch in the leading edge of the keel

 

[shemandr]

Look carefully at the tabbing of the pan to the hull under the floor boards around the keel and particularly the aft end and with a bright light There are likely tears When I had mine it was an insurance claim - I was going less than three kts It didn't leak either I had much more damage inside the boat than outside You probably can't even discover all the damage without some degree of taking the boat apart Sorry but that was my experience

 

[CarlN]

Don't let this unnecessarily scare you away from the boat. If you are going to restrict yourself to boats that have never had a "hard grounding", you won't have many boats to choose from.

The best thing here is you know about the grounding so can negotiate price down a bit. Usually you don't know and the surveyor doesn't see anything.

Obviously this should be checked by a surveyor but Catalina 30's are tough boats. Tabbing is cheap and easy to repair (and there's pretty good access). A broken forward keel bolt might be the biggest worry from the hit but even that ain't really a big deal - nowhere near the cost of fixing the far more common nightmares of deck core rot, bulkhead rot, rot in the plywood in your keel stub (causes the Catalina Smile), bad blisters, poorly cared for engine, leaks/delamination at the hull/deck joint, blown out sails, unsafe rigging or mast, inaccessible leaking fuel tanks etc.



Carl

 

[Ross]

My dock neighbor grounded on a log at hull speed with a 27 seaward and broke furniture in the cabin and lost most of a sailing season. I have bumped a few times but never hard enough to cause me concern.