Hard Bimini?

[philwsailz]

Gents-

Looking for opinions, and hopefully a C27 owner who can get me a measurement...

I am pondering the relative merits of building a hard-top Bimini for L.L.attitudes. If I did so it would be a home for solar, as well as the traveller.

What are the pros and cons? Engineering obstacles? Cosmetics? Aesthetics? Be honest, open and forthcoming. If everybody thinks it is a horrible idea, I can buy that.... If you love it say so, but say why.

If you were to do so for your boat, what features would you personally consider?

Finally, to the Catalina 27 sailors out there, is anyone close enough to their boat so that they can get me a hard dimension or two? Basically, with the boom vanged hard, what is the distance from the stock cockpit floor to the bottom of the boom, at its lowest appendage? Mine is in the shop with the mast unstepped. I could figure it out mathematically I think, but it would be easier to have a real measurement from a real boat to compare to. With a dimension or two, I could do a wooded fab-up of a hard bimini to see if boarding and disembarking is hindered, if it is too low, obstacles other than the backstay, etc.

Care to play?


Let me know!

 

[caguy]

I'll be at the boat tomorrow. The rake will so affect your clearance quite a bit.

 

[philwsailz]

I'll be at the boat tomorrow. The rake will so affect your clearance quite a bit.

Doing some internet image searching looking at different images, I am doubtful I can pull it off where it provides desired function without introducing a height restriction, (I am 6'3"). We will see.

Thanks so much for offering!

 

[Ted]

Hard Bimini

This a general personal opinion regarding boat modifications. Some "do it yourself" modifications can actually detract from the value of a boat. Some because the mod was simply a bad idea and others because they were poorly executed. If you like the idea, go for it but be prepared that it may impact your ability to find a buyer with similar taste when the time comes to sell. If you're planning on keeping the boat for a while, and the mod will make your sailing experience more enjoyable, the decision will be an easy one. If the hard bimini is going to be removable, with little permanent damage to the original deck, it may not negatively effect the value. From the aesthetic point of view, I do not care for biminis although for many people, their function superceeds appearance. I would not have purchased my present boat if the previous owner had added a hard bimini if it were permanent. I do agree that a hard Bimini is a great place to mount solar panels. Trimming the main can be difficult because of restricted visibility.

 

[Chef2sail]

This a general personal opinion regarding boat modifications. Some "do it yourself" modifications can actually detract from the value of a boat. Some because the mod was simply a bad idea and others because they were poorly executed. If you like the idea, go for it but be prepared that it may impact your ability to find a buyer with similar taste when the time comes to sell. If you're planning on keeping the boat for a while, and the mod will make your sailing experience more enjoyable, the decision will be an easy one. If the hard bimini is going to be removable, with little permanent damage to the original deck, it may not negatively effect the value. From the aesthetic point of view, I do not care for biminis although for many people, their function superceeds appearance. I would not have purchased my present boat if the previous owner had added a hard bimini if it were permanent. I do agree that a hard Bimini is a great place to mount solar panels. Trimming the main can be difficult because of restricted visibility.

Good advice as far as the modification being well executed. I however different in my outlook of biminis detracting from the decision to buy a boat and affecting it negatively.

Fact is if all was equal and one had a bimini and the other didnt, I would choose the one with the bimini. Many must agree as it appears that a large amount of sailboats have biminis. If executed professionally or well done this factor should not be considered a negative

 

[philwsailz]

I at least agree that poorly done it would horribly detract from the looks and value. If I do it at all, it will be a high dollar proposition and done right. I hate hack jobs; seen too many. My head is thinking arched welded stainless tube frame support, combined with a white curved-top gel cap. If it doesn't look good I don't want it : D. On page 66 of the latest Cruising World, the new Hunter 40 has a hard Bimini similar to what I am thinking.

At that, weight aloft may be a decider against it. I have seen center console t-top covers where canvas was laced to a rigid frame. That would accomplish the same goals, with less weight.

Then too, if I don't have sufficient head room, it probably isn't happening!

 

[philwsailz]

Thanks for the input so far. Keep it coming!

 

[Joe]

I'm not really a fan of your "hard" bimini idea (isn't hard bimini an oxymoron?)... but I'd have to see a sketch of your concept to be convinced it was a good idea.

Now.... a hard dodger is a different story... I can ablsolutely envision the benefits....and if designed properly could have a nifty, bimini-like extension off the back to provide additional protection from the elements. Solar panels on the roof, if desired.

To me, a bimini should be easily undone or set up.. depending on the conditions.... a hard structure, especially with solar panels fixed on top would not conform.

I also like the idea for a traditional folding, canvas bimini supplemented by an equipment arch off the transom behind the boom and mainsheet.

There's another problem.... the C 27's with end boom sheeting are very restrictive where biminis are concerned........ I would consider converting to mid boom sheeting ....giving you much more leeway in your bimini design... hard or soft....

Good topic.... I'll be following this thread with interest.

 

[Chuckbear]

Our hardtop

Here is what we did on our flybridge. It can be made to any size or specifications. It's extremely lightweight and since we're now cruising the Bahamas, we find it was a very good decision for us. http://trawler-beach-house.blogspot.com/2012/07/from-fabric-bimini-to-hardtop-in-one-day.html . Chuck

 

[Sailm8]

I once contacted Hard to Top and they do sailboats too. Seems very light weight and strong. When it comes time to replace mine I will definitely consider their system.

 

[kloudie1]

Yup.. these guys might have some ideas that you can use..
http://hardtotop.com/index.html

 

[philwsailz]

Main-sheeting is a concern. I appreciate how mid-boom sheeting will clear up the cockpit. To date I hadn't considered it due to price... But this project would spend some coin. My original thought was to leave it end-boom but move the traveller to the hard top; boom loading is lower and you have a better mechanical advantage on the sheet but the top would have to be robust enough to take the load.

I like the arch idea; similarly it too has to fully carry sheeting loads.

The Hard-To-Top system looks pretty neat!

Continuing to watch and ponder.... Thanks guys!

 

[onecoolair]

Here is what we did on our flybridge. It can be made to any size or specifications. It's extremely lightweight and since we're now cruising the Bahamas, we find it was a very good decision for us. http://trawler-beach-house.blogspot.com/2012/07/from-fabric-bimini-to-hardtop-in-one-day.html . Chuck

I first saw this type of set up last year.... It's looks real nice..... But how uv resistant are the polycarbonite panels?? Is this a different polycarbonite then that is used on say job signs?

 

[Steve Dion]

Phil: We love having a bimini on our HV'36. One issue that you need to consider is sometimes it can be very cool out and you could be gaining the warmth of the sun. If you have a "hard" dodger there will probably be no way to take it down when you want warmth.

The only other issue I see would be getting around on the boat. The unit would need to be very strong to handle the traveler, solor and the cover itself.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

At 6'3" I don't see how it could work for you. Do you have a traditional bimini now? If so, what is the clearance? If you stand up in your cockpit and have to duck when the boom crosses, you can't possibly live with a bimini that is shorter than that, could you?

In my experience, a bimini is a nuisance that I live with from about mid July to Mid September when I just can't take the sun. I'm sure your season of hot sun is longer so I can understand the desire, but I just don't see how you can tolerate stooping under the damn thing for any longer than is necessary.

Also, I have mid-boom sheeting with the traveler on the bridge deck. Between stooping to get under the bimini and dodging the main sheet, the cockpit is just too small. Many of the pro-comments are from people who undoubtedly have larger cockpits with standing headroom under the boom. I don't see how it is possible on a Cat 27, especially when you are that tall. I'm 6' and it is a problem (it's even a problem for my 5'7" wife).

Other than that, looking at the shape and trim of the mainsail is always a problem with the bimini up. I have a wind instrument, which solves the problem that I had when I couldn't see the top of the mast from the helm.

I could see an arch with a retractable bimini of some kind, but in the end, I think the boat is much too small. I like Joe's thought about a hard dodger, but only for cooler climates. I think that a summer with a dodger could lead to misery from the heat as well.

 

[caguy]

I agree with Scott, I have a folding bimini for the C27 but only used it a couple of times. I find it too confining. I didn't use it for the reasons stated above while sailing. What I use is a cover that rest on top of the boom and is held out by three pvc pipes. It ties to the stanchions and is stable even in high winds. I can raise the boom while moored out and it gives me plenty of space.

 

[Steve Dion]

I think that a summer with a dodger could lead to misery from the heat as well.

Scott: If you do not have a dodger that ALL of the windows can be removed you are correct. It becomes a hot house. Great for plants but not suitable for human existance.

We have a dodger and a bimini. The are great when the heat comes but when we head to the SF Bay it can be very cool even with the dodger windows in place so we quite often close the bimini and enjoy the warmth of the sun.

Our dodger has 5 window panels that are all removable. It works great for hot and cool weather.

 

[philwsailz]

At 6'3" I don't see how it could work for you. Do you have a traditional bimini now? If so, what is the clearance? If you stand up in your cockpit and have to duck when the boom crosses, you can't possibly live with a bimini that is shorter than that, could you?

In my experience, a bimini is a nuisance that I live with from about mid July to Mid September when I just can't take the sun. I'm sure your season of hot sun is longer so I can understand the desire, but I just don't see how you can tolerate stooping under the damn thing for any longer than is necessary.

Also, I have mid-boom sheeting with the traveler on the bridge deck. Between stooping to get under the bimini and dodging the main sheet, the cockpit is just too small. Many of the pro-comments are from people who undoubtedly have larger cockpits with standing headroom under the boom. I don't see how it is possible on a Cat 27, especially when you are that tall. I'm 6' and it is a problem (it's even a problem for my 5'7" wife).

Other than that, looking at the shape and trim of the mainsail is always a problem with the bimini up. I have a wind instrument, which solves the problem that I had when I couldn't see the top of the mast from the helm.

I could see an arch with a retractable bimini of some kind, but in the end, I think the boat is much too small. I like Joe's thought about a hard dodger, but only for cooler climates. I think that a summer with a dodger could lead to misery from the heat as well.

I still have the boat in the shop and have never been aboard with a stepped mast. Waiting on a measurement from an assembled boat, but it is sounding like it wont work.

I have been on boats where the Bimini severely hampered motion and I strongly dislike that; I think I am hearing the answer....

 

[philwsailz]

I agree with Scott, I have a folding bimini for the C27 but only used it a couple of times. I find it too confining. I didn't use it for the reasons stated above while sailing. What I use is a cover that rest on top of the boom and is held out by three pvc pipes. It ties to the stanchions and is stable even in high winds. I can raise the boom while moored out and it gives me plenty of space.

I am going to look into an easy to deploy device like you describe for anchoring out.

 

[caguy]

I am going to look into an easy to deploy device like you describe for anchoring out.

Sorry didn't get down to the boat today, had to wait for the cable guy. I'll be down there tomorrow and will set it up and take some pictures. I got the idea from others who use them in Catalina.