As many of you know, the Portsmouth Handicap for the 216 is currently 92.0. (Equivalent to a PHRF of about 222.) In our little club, with all types of bigger boats, we are racing at 86.5 with the spinnaker and still the other sailors want it to be much lower as we really are winning all of the races by a rather significant amount. For those of you who race, or even "unofficially" race, what are you experiencing as far as your boat's speed compared with other makes and models? I've included a link to US Sailings Portsmouth Handicaps so that you can look up what some of your "competitor's" handicaps might be. When I took my wife out on her first sail many years ago, after an afternoon of passing all kinds of other boats, she asked me "When aren't you racing? My response: "The only time a sailor is not racing is right after he has been passed by another sailboat." Fair winds friends.
Handicaps Revisited
- Thread starter Mr.Ernie
- Start date
- Status
Submit Race Results to US Sailing
The only way the Portsmouth handicap data gets adjusted is by clubs (big and small) submitting race results to US Sailing. The related link below explains how to do this. The H216 DPN of [92.0] being in brackets indicates that there are less than 5 data points for that model boat. Being a newer model boat, the 92.0 DPN may be a bit of a "wag" and will only get refined as more race results get reported. Your competitors taking issue with the DPN should urge your racing stats person to submit race results and hope for a more equitable DPN next season.
The only way the Portsmouth handicap data gets adjusted is by clubs (big and small) submitting race results to US Sailing. The related link below explains how to do this. The H216 DPN of [92.0] being in brackets indicates that there are less than 5 data points for that model boat. Being a newer model boat, the 92.0 DPN may be a bit of a "wag" and will only get refined as more race results get reported. Your competitors taking issue with the DPN should urge your racing stats person to submit race results and hope for a more equitable DPN next season.
Handicaps
Ross, the first PM Handicap number assigned to the 216 was an 85 and this was set primarily on the results that I had sent to Darlene at US Sailing. She got so many complaints that it was much too low that she raised it to the current 92. I don't know where the complaints came from as it appears, at least from this forum, that very few, if any, other 216s are raced. We do not use a committee boat for our races and use the handicaps to set the start times. Doing it this way, precludes us from obtaining the detailed comparative times, including wind strengths, etc., that could be used by her to accurately set a handicap. As you can see from the lack of responses to this post, most 216ers are not interested in racing, (Which I find surprising given the boat's overall performance.) The only place that I think they might regularly race the 216s would be the Bitter End Yacht Club but I think they are probably sailing with their smaller sail plans do to the higher winds in the Islands.
Ross, the first PM Handicap number assigned to the 216 was an 85 and this was set primarily on the results that I had sent to Darlene at US Sailing. She got so many complaints that it was much too low that she raised it to the current 92. I don't know where the complaints came from as it appears, at least from this forum, that very few, if any, other 216s are raced. We do not use a committee boat for our races and use the handicaps to set the start times. Doing it this way, precludes us from obtaining the detailed comparative times, including wind strengths, etc., that could be used by her to accurately set a handicap. As you can see from the lack of responses to this post, most 216ers are not interested in racing, (Which I find surprising given the boat's overall performance.) The only place that I think they might regularly race the 216s would be the Bitter End Yacht Club but I think they are probably sailing with their smaller sail plans do to the higher winds in the Islands.
racing experience
i'm new to racing, so the helmsman skill (lack off) should be considered. most recent race, inland lake, winds 8-12 mph, calm water. 3 J22's, 3 thistles, 2 catalina 22's, 1 MC Scow and my H216. finished second using 92 portsmouth handicap, single handed, so no A-sail. thistle won, J22 was third, they used spinnakers. the thistle and the J22 crews were all very experienced and competitive. true times for top finishers, thistle (44.92), J22 (45.97), J22 (47.00), thistle (47.60), thistle (48.28), H216 (50.82), mc scow (50.87), J22 no spin (54.22), cat 22 no spin (55.07) based on this result, and my novice level as skipper, i'd suggest that the handicap is too low, meaning a lower portsmouth rating number would be approriate. i hope to find a crew member so that i can sail with the a-sail, and i believe my boat will then have a decidedly unfair advantage with a 92 portsmouth. doug
i'm new to racing, so the helmsman skill (lack off) should be considered. most recent race, inland lake, winds 8-12 mph, calm water. 3 J22's, 3 thistles, 2 catalina 22's, 1 MC Scow and my H216. finished second using 92 portsmouth handicap, single handed, so no A-sail. thistle won, J22 was third, they used spinnakers. the thistle and the J22 crews were all very experienced and competitive. true times for top finishers, thistle (44.92), J22 (45.97), J22 (47.00), thistle (47.60), thistle (48.28), H216 (50.82), mc scow (50.87), J22 no spin (54.22), cat 22 no spin (55.07) based on this result, and my novice level as skipper, i'd suggest that the handicap is too low, meaning a lower portsmouth rating number would be approriate. i hope to find a crew member so that i can sail with the a-sail, and i believe my boat will then have a decidedly unfair advantage with a 92 portsmouth. doug
H23 comparison
I race my H23 against a J24's, Precision 23's and some ODAY 25'. I beat about 10 to 15 % of the fleet. I do need to replace my head sail which I hope will improve my results. As I see it, the problem with racing the Precisions is that they pull up their swing keel on the down wind runs. I don't get to do that with my fixed keel. Once I led through all the legs except the last down wind leg. The WHOLE FLEET passed me. I had a very experienced crew on that race and we determined that I had picked up some weeds and was probably dragging a bunch of growth by the end of the race. I would like to see some comments about this. Thanks, Bill Leathen - Lake Onalaska, WI
I race my H23 against a J24's, Precision 23's and some ODAY 25'. I beat about 10 to 15 % of the fleet. I do need to replace my head sail which I hope will improve my results. As I see it, the problem with racing the Precisions is that they pull up their swing keel on the down wind runs. I don't get to do that with my fixed keel. Once I led through all the legs except the last down wind leg. The WHOLE FLEET passed me. I had a very experienced crew on that race and we determined that I had picked up some weeds and was probably dragging a bunch of growth by the end of the race. I would like to see some comments about this. Thanks, Bill Leathen - Lake Onalaska, WI
doug
The handicap system is NOT supposed to handicap the crew and it's skill or lack thereof. The handicap is for the boat. Two boats sailed perfectly in identical conditions should correct out as dead even. Unless US Sailing has a VPP for the boat they can only guess at a rating until hard data arrives and causes a change. Usually they guess wrong and invariably need to make adjustments. Bill, pulling up a keel is illegal in PHRF, balast cannot be removed or relocated.
The handicap system is NOT supposed to handicap the crew and it's skill or lack thereof. The handicap is for the boat. Two boats sailed perfectly in identical conditions should correct out as dead even. Unless US Sailing has a VPP for the boat they can only guess at a rating until hard data arrives and causes a change. Usually they guess wrong and invariably need to make adjustments. Bill, pulling up a keel is illegal in PHRF, balast cannot be removed or relocated.
- Status