Hand and toe rail finish-what's your favorite

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Sep 23, 2009
1,475
O'Day 34-At Last Rock Hall, Md
What do you like for finishing the exterior brightwork, hand rails and toe rails? Cetal color with clear topcoats, spar varnish, two part clear finish such as Bristol?
How frequently do you recoat?
I'm currently deciding between cetal or a "no-sand-between coats" epifanes varnish after cleaning long neglected teak rails.
Many thanks.
Larry
 

Apex

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Jun 19, 2013
1,212
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
I am about to try Epiphanes myself. On the previous boat, Cetol but didn't like how it covered the wood grain.
 

Ritdog

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Jul 18, 2011
184
Oday 25 Portland, ME
Cetol is horrible- looks like plastic. I have an Oday 25. I did the toe and handrails in teak oil, which of course faded over the summer. Some people object to that. I'd rather sail the boat than just maintain it all year.

What I am looking into is epoxy with varnish over it, which seems to work well, looks good, and holds up.
 
Oct 25, 2011
576
Island Packet IP31 Lake St. Louis, Montreal
OK, here go the religious wars again.

Cetol Natural teak with the clear over coat. No plastic look, no orange stain anymore. It looks very nice and is very easy to maintain. Touchups are quick and easy and you can't see them.

Matt
 

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Oct 3, 2010
130
oday 31 noank
there are no shortcuts to quality. your bright work will reflect the effort you put into it. I stripped all the teak on my o'day 31 and put 8 coats of captains varnish on it. it looks beautiful. it remains flawless all season. in the spring I put 3 more coats on. when I look at it I say " glad I did it " not "wish I had done it "
 
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Sep 23, 2009
1,475
O'Day 34-At Last Rock Hall, Md
Thanks for all your thoughts. I have seen Cetal that looked reallly bad and really good. I think the light with clear top coats is one way with Cetal. Bristiol sounds too good to be true. People claim fours years between coats.
Epiphanes might work for me so long as I don't have to sand between every coat and just have to add 1 or 2 top coats every year.
From your picture Matt, I would have called that varnish as it looks so good. Look at the gloss by the chainplates-beautiful. Did you wipe or brush it on?
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Just remember, gloss does not brightwork make. A guy in my club has done brightwork on his boat, and he used Epiphanes Rapid Coat. He said he put 12 or 15 coats on, but I think it looks like crap compared to my 8-9 coats of regular varnish. It didn't have the grain fill, depth, or luster. I think this depth and luster is hard to capture in photos, but here are some (attached to the post.) This is 9 coats of Pettit Captain's varnish on new mahogany. It was applied with a foam brush, with wet sanding between coats. I tried badger hair brushes, but I just can't get them clean enough to not leave flakes in the next coat. Also, I feel I can control the amount of varnish I lay down better with a foam brush. Mind you, I have used Epiphanes traditional varnish in the past, and I get the same depth and luster, though I feel it's color is darker and not as traditional amber as I would prefer.

There are no shortcuts with brightwork, except perhaps 2 coats of epoxy first. Actually, the only shortcut I've found so far is Le Tonkinois varnish. It's supposedly a very traditional formulation with just oil and resin. As such, it does not have solvent off gassing, so I feel I can keep a wet edge better than with other varnishes, without having to thin it. Also, I can use it in the house without killing myself from solvent fumes. So, while I feel I can lay it down better, it really isn't much of a shortcut, as I still need to be careful laying it on, and watch for drips and sags. The jury is out on longevity of the finish, and it might not be quite as glossy as other varnishes.

You still need a minimum of 8 coats of varnish, and some feel 10 is a good base coat. Once you have 8-10-12 coats, you should still sand lightly each season and apply 1-2 coats. Varnish is like an onion - layers of thin film, and the layers do wear off through the year. 10 coats of varnish with a coat each year should last about 10 years before you need to strip down to wood and start over again, provided moisture doesn't cause the varnish to lift or bubble. Again, this is for a traditional brightwork finish, which is what most people want to see.

If you want a really glossy finish, go for a 2 part polyurethane like Interlux Perfection. This will give you a very hard, high gloss finish, but it's difficult to repair. I think it would be best for new wood, or old wood that is very sound, dry, and will not move much.

You could also try some other miracle finishes such as Honey Teak. From what I can gather, it's an epoxy finish. But expensive.

If you go with oil, one of the best I've heard of is Semco. Other teak oils seem to wash off and wear off pretty quickly. I use Watco Teak Oil on my cedar kayak paddle, and optimally, I should put about 5 coats on several times a season depending on how much I go paddling.

Cetol is really like a lightly pigmented paint. It lays down a very thin, paint-like film, but translucent so you can still see grain below. The colored Cetol is semi-glossy. It does NOT fill the grain at all, so good sanding prep is a requirement.

Brian
 

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Sep 27, 2008
80
Grampian 26 26 Penetang,Ontario
What do you like for finishing the exterior brightwork, hand rails and toe rails? Cetal color with clear topcoats, spar varnish, two part clear finish such as Bristol?
How frequently do you recoat?
I'm currently deciding between cetal or a "no-sand-between coats" epifanes varnish after cleaning long neglected teak rails.
Many thanks.
Larry
Seal with epoxy,follow with 4-5 coats of Helmsman gloss varnish.
Works for me.
 
Sep 23, 2009
1,475
O'Day 34-At Last Rock Hall, Md
Thanks again to all. Brain thanks for your detailed and very helpful info. With the weather change my teak will have to wait till spring. I must confess that being lazy, I am still leaning to Cetal clear. I also really hate sanding. Also the hand and toerails do not get the close inspection the teak around the compaion way gets.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
njlarry, you might consider some coats of Cetol Marine Natural Teak first, before the coats of gloss. I expect this will give you some of the amber warmth of varnish or oil, whereas the gloss is likely to be straight up clear. I can tell you that the Marine Light color does have light orange hue that I DIDN'T want, but it still looks ok considering all the exposed wood is coated with it. I have the can of clear, but I have never opened it.

I once used some Dura-Tuff clear polyurethane for a completely different project. It is crystal clear and glossy, which was fine for that project. It had no amber to it at all, and did not change the color of the wood at all, much the same as a water based acrylic interior "varnish" adds no color whatsoever to the project.

The point is, I expect the Cetol Gloss to be crystal clear, and the lightly pigmented other colors give you your approximations of oiled or varnished teak.

Some time over the winter I may bite the bullet and buy a can of Cetol Marine Natural Teak, in order to check out the color. I have a mahogany plywood boat I'm restoring, and the deck and entire interior was originally varnish. I love the varnish look, but I know I will have a hell of a time with drips around frames, stringers, and limber holes. I also know that I won't be satisfied with brightwork unless it's got 8 coats minimum. I'm just not sure I'll be able to go the distance, and I can't bring myself to paint the interior. I'm hoping that Natural Teak color will give a little bit of the amber I'm looking for, quicker and easier than varnish. But probably not :D

Brian
 
Oct 25, 2011
576
Island Packet IP31 Lake St. Louis, Montreal
Thanks for all your thoughts. I have seen Cetal that looked reallly bad and really good. I think the light with clear top coats is one way with Cetal. Bristiol sounds too good to be true. People claim fours years between coats.
Epiphanes might work for me so long as I don't have to sand between every coat and just have to add 1 or 2 top coats every year.
From your picture Matt, I would have called that varnish as it looks so good. Look at the gloss by the chainplates-beautiful. Did you wipe or brush it on?
Apologies for the late reply. I use foam brushes took apply the Cetol. I used the lightest Cetol available, Natural Teak, and the gloss top coat. The top coat makes a really big difference regarding the shine.
 
Aug 16, 2009
1,000
Hunter 1986 H31 California Yacht Marina, Chula Vista, CA
What are folks using to mask off the gelcoat when painting/varnishing the handrails? Remove the masking product immediately after each coat? When using cetol, do you sand between coats? What grit?
 
Oct 25, 2011
576
Island Packet IP31 Lake St. Louis, Montreal
What are folks using to mask off the gelcoat when painting/varnishing the handrails? Remove the masking product immediately after each coat? When using cetol, do you sand between coats? What grit?
I use making tape. Any decent making take will do a good job. I have left the take on for a day or two without negative effects. This spring I left it on for more than a week and the glue stayed behind when I peeled off the tape and it took a few words for the sun to get rid of it.

When putting on successive coats, I do not sand between coats of Cetol as per the instructions on the can. I do a light sanding with 220 when I put on the annual maintenance coat.

Cheers

Matt
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Masking tape

What are folks using to mask off the gelcoat when painting/varnishing the handrails? Remove the masking product immediately after each coat? When using cetol, do you sand between coats? What grit?
I'm a big fan of the green Frog Tape. http://frogtape.com I've had it on for several days, and it came off without leaving a glue residue.

Brian
 
Aug 16, 2009
1,000
Hunter 1986 H31 California Yacht Marina, Chula Vista, CA
I also want to avoid scuffing the gelcoat. Will the frog or masking tape hold up to the prep sanding?
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
As with most masking tape, it'll hold up to a little bit of over sanding. Keep your eye on it, if it starts to look frayed, slap another piece over it. Of course, you'll want to re-tape after sanding but before finishing…

Brian
 
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